Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast

#68 - Memoirs of an Indigenous Knowledge Dojo Dropout and the Vin Diesel School of Indigenous Philosophy

• Shandin Pete, Aaron Brien • Season 4 • Episode 68

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Introduction & Reel‑to‑Reel Time Travel 0:00:00
YouTube Archives & Arlee 1958 Powwow Tapes 0:01:11
Life Updates Sweat Lodge Smart Board & Office Feng Shui 0:09:35
Genealogy Historic Trauma & Reinvented Family Histories 0:11:13
Mythical Cree Blood Chiefs and Grandma Being Wrong 0:18:54
Vin Diesel Philosophy & You Keep What You Kill 0:23:14
Belief Depression & Warrior Trauma Thought Experiments 0:25:24
Spirituality Censorship & Recording the Sacred 0:36:34
Indigenous Science Metaphors & Western Science Bashing 0:48:22
Knowledge Dojo Dropouts Elders & Other Tribal Ranks 1:00:34
Anthro Archives Pop‑Pop’s Notes & Future Kids Reading Us 1:14:28
Wrap‑Up & Teasing the 2005 Notebooks 1:17:52

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné). 

How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., Brien, A. & Old Bull, S. A. (Hosts). (2025, December 5). #68 - Memoirs of an Indigenous Knowledge Dojo Dropout and the Vin Diesel School of Indigenous Philosophy [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com

How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast]. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/

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shandin pete:

Well, you know, above the bedrock of universal humor, there's a common heritage of mankind. Oh, my, and it's understood everywhere. Everywhere lies the top soil formed by the erosion of the national life. Exit, just kidding.

Aaron Brien:

Help me out here. Him. I don't know what's going on. I don't know. I don't know. Smudge him off. Someone. Smudge him off. To a shower. Take a shower. Looks like you need a shower. You

shandin pete:

You've been to our you've been to our YouTube page,

Aaron Brien:

not recently. No, why? What's on there, I don't know I was gonna check it out real quick here. Let's see. Let me know if you can see this. I prefer gallery view and the Zoom equal. It's a safe space.

shandin pete:

Yeah. I know we got to consider that. I don't think about it enough. Okay, here's our YouTube page that does not look like our YouTube. No, this, this is not what Hold on a second view your channel. There it is, um, yeah, so somewhere, let's see where's it at? Oh, playlists. So I've got all these categories. Some are not public. I don't know why? Why am I here? Oh, yeah, tape archives, real to real archives. Yeah, I just want to make sure you've seen the I don't like that word, but plethora, plethora, a plethora of archived music available to anybody. This for free. Man,

Aaron Brien:

we've got this. Yeah, yeah.

shandin pete:

Look at this. Look at these. Reel to Reel. These are old. Here's a 1958 Arley, pow wow. Let's check it out. Well, let's

Aaron Brien:

do it. Did I say 5919 58

shandin pete:

notable singers on there, apparently, according to the box where the the reel was contained, Louie nine, pipe happy nine, pipe brothers. Brothers, yeah, get another brother. I can't remember his name right now for some reason. But yeah, I don't know if this is them, but it sounds like it. Yeah, seven and a half speed, reel to reel. I anyway, yeah, that song is like pushing the beat in it. It's almost on, yeah, it's almost not quite Oh. Oh, how old were you in 1958

Episode Audio:

that was a war dance at the annual Indian Fourth of July celebration at Arley, Montana. Yeah, I see we have out there, Louis nine pipe, yep. Louis McDonald, happy nine pipe, and a boy that I don't know. He's from another reservation,

shandin pete:

the boy I don't know anyway. Do. Back in is this the same song? They have a really long pause between the tail. Oh, that's different, son. These songs are still sunny. Not like this, though that's true. Not like this. Gourd Dance, yeah, it anyway. I just wanted to make that unknown to the to the listener. This is YouTube tribal research specialist, YouTube page, and if you look at the tape collection that I got on here. Playlist, it is quite extensive.

Aaron Brien:

It's extensive. You've said that a couple of times. I know, I know, yeah,

shandin pete:

but I just want to make sure that people are aware they can Yeah, go ahead

Aaron Brien:

the listener. Do we attract the type of listener that wants to hear Arley celebration 19 and 58 or do we attract land acknowledgement people? I

shandin pete:

think it's a mixed bag. You know, it's a mixed bag, but I just scrolling through these, and I got a bunch more. I just been lazy. You know, for the last couple years, haven't got to it has

Aaron Brien:

been lazy teaching at the university. Sorry, I don't have time for uploading YouTube videos. That's a Sean, did you guys quit thinking about yourself

shandin pete:

so selfish, selfish you've done? Have you, if you produced any YouTube videos yourself, or kept a channel?

Aaron Brien:

I had a channel for a little bit. Yeah, it was mainly when I was doing like, the jiu jitsu thing, and, like, oh, yeah, I had like, training videos and stuff on there. And, yeah, but that's work, ain't it? It is a lot of work.

shandin pete:

It's hard work. I I commend people who can maintain and actively engage with an audience via YouTube. That's hard work, man, it's hard work. Hey, what you got today?

Aaron Brien:

Uh, not nothing. I don't have anything today. Why not? Do you? He messaged me and said, Let's record soon. I said, right on what I mean. I always got topics. I always got nonsense, you know, so

shandin pete:

I'm, well, here I'm gonna do something. This is gonna be, I want to do something.

Aaron Brien:

It's not a long form joke again, right? Oh, that

shandin pete:

last episode, that was too much, man, how's going on?

Aaron Brien:

Wait, that's also, are we not gonna compose a round dance song while we're on here?

shandin pete:

That was fun, man, I don't know about you, that was good stuff. I'm looking for an Hold on, looking for a notebook. I don't see it. Hold on, I was gonna go back. Oh, look, this one goes back far enough so I got this notebook I've been keeping for a number of years, and I started looking through it, and I had some questions in it that I jotted down at the time, and I thought this would be interesting to see what my thoughts were back in 2005 I don't have that. I don't have that notebook, but I have this 2000 it goes from 2011 to present that will make it work. I mean, I don't want to. I want to know what was on my mind at this time, I got a lot

Aaron Brien:

of I want to know what was on your mind. I need to know what this is.

shandin pete:

Let's see the first half. It's mostly notes from a class I was sitting in just some garbage. I was writing down some diagrams. Well, while I'm looking, give me a give me a quick, quick update on what you've been up to.

Aaron Brien:

Well, when's the last time we recorded? Oh,

shandin pete:

I got that right here the last time we spoke. December five.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, okay, so whether we made it through the holidays,

shandin pete:

yeah, December, January, almost. Months ago, everything same,

Aaron Brien:

boring, yeah, things are overall pretty good, you know, yeah, we, we built the sweat here at the house, so Oh, right on. We got that going for us, you know,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah. And then

Aaron Brien:

as far as work, we got we were having some water and heat issues, we got resolved. Shampooed the carpet, rearranged the office, got a new desk,

shandin pete:

like, wait, wait, wait, go back. You got a new desk.

Aaron Brien:

Got a new desk, and the office is more open concept

shandin pete:

now, oh, Feng shuied it,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, we Feng shuied it a little bit. We got a smart board. So whatever. Man, the kids wrestling. We got Luke's wrestling. So we got wrestling we're doing. And, yeah, all the other kids are just in school, doing the school stuff. But I'm kind of pretty big right now on genealogy, yeah, so I've been kind of doing some family tree stuff. And, oh yeah, I think partly for myself. So you ever noticed? Like, I don't know if this is, like a trauma response or like some sort of, like, maybe, maybe a psychologist can weigh in sometimes,

shandin pete:

listen to this and see some counseling.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, there seems to be a thing with tribal people on reservations where they kind of reinvent their family history to have less

shandin pete:

trauma. What do you mean?

Aaron Brien:

Well, I mean, in life, we know that there's like, there's people step out on each other. We know that there's abuse, we know, okay, there's all kinds of stuff, right? Yeah, so, like, sometimes kids have different parents and dads, and sometimes, like, a person you may have thought was was a blood relation, turns out they're not. They were just raised by your people because of situation that they're home. So, like, but this goes over time, right? Like, over like, in some cases it's like 100 years. We over 100 years we've been kind of like, yeah, to led to believe certain things. And then when you find out, you're like, well, actually, that's not even true. So this is what happened. And, yeah, so I thought, you know, I've never put together a family tree that was kind of bare bones. And what I mean, bare bones, I mean, like, just my bloodline, yeah, no adoptions, no like, and I'm not saying that adoption doesn't count. It's just that it's like, like, a ground zero to start from, and then be like, Okay, now this makes sense. Why? How we're related to these people, or how? Yeah, this happens here. Because when you do genealogy work, as I'm sure you know, it's usually not just a like, it doesn't become just the pursuit of filling out a family tree. It's like, you're learning a lot of stuff about oh yeah, things, you know, yeah. And I'm pretty lucky to have a grandmother still. So yeah, her side, she's 91 so I have that. But then I also have, like, we have so much access now to census records and, oh yeah, pre, like, early reservation stuff, that now we can start to compare the oral history, but what I'm finding is that there was some pretty horrific stuff happening in the early reservation that sometimes we're kind of led to believe a certain thing, right? Yeah, like, I'll share, I'll share one with you that I don't think is like crazy, but it gives you an idea. Let's do it. So my great grandfather, whom I knew, yes, was the son of a emancipated slave and a crow lady. So, yeah, right? When he was born in 1907 Okay, 1907 Yeah. So his dad was kind of older, right? Like he was a fairly old guy, like he was in his 40s, or something 50s, yeah, this just got into okay when he was had my grandfather, okay? And then my great, great grandmother, her name was Pine Fire, and she was the daughter of the famed pretty shield, right?

shandin pete:

Okay, there's

Aaron Brien:

a book written about pretty shield, but anyway, Johnny Wilson was not raised by his mother or his father. He was raised by his grandmother. That's not crazy to think, right? That's kind of common.

shandin pete:

So Johnny Wilson. Mother was Pine Fire, but was raised by pretty shield,

Aaron Brien:

Yep, yeah, yeah.

shandin pete:

Well, who's the father?

Aaron Brien:

His name was Charles Wilson.

shandin pete:

Okay, he's the emancipated, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

so we just know that is they called him Charles, but he was from the Wilson plantation in Missouri. So he, that's where the the Wilson thing comes from. And without getting into like, yeah, people to think, I'm like, trying to talk bad about my own family. But it's not. It's not, is this this

shandin pete:

reinvented trauma thing you're talking about? Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

So this is the thing this. This is the thing I always wondered. I said, Well, how come he wasn't raised by a Pine Fire? Yeah, and we were always told she died when she was young, and from one of the diseases, that it was tuberculosis or something.

shandin pete:

So just have been 19, early 1900s right?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, yeah. So Spanish flu, yeah, whatever, you know. So then I kind of always just went with it, because that was, like, the gospel of according to my family, right? Yeah. And who are we to question our elders and all this stuff, you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, after looking into, like the census records and like household stuff and then, and then talking to my grandma and figuring out actually, ways to ask questions now. So when I was younger, I just asked questions. I guess simple questions get simple answers, right? Yeah. So now there's like, as an adult, you become more educated and more mature, and how you how you word questions, yeah. And then also, how you like, decipher information, right? Yes. So I find out she was 51 years old when she died. So not that young, not that young. I mean, basically Young. I'm young, for sure. It's it's young, but I mean, he was in his 20s, you know, when he wasn't orphaned at all. Oh, okay, okay, okay, you know what? I mean, he was in his 20s when she died. But yeah, so there's always this clean kind of version of she died young. She couldn't raise her kids. Grandma raised them right, when the truth is is actually much more relatable is that she was an abusive relationship. The grandparents took the kids, yeah? She eventually remarries a guy, a crow guy, and then, and that's just pretty much it. She did get sick and she died, yeah, but in my mind, it happened when she was a young mother, yeah, but she it. She was 51 she had lived the life, you know, which I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm just, I think there's this that's one tiny example of, like, how a family will kind of, like, reinvent everything. And I don't know if I'm not saying it's a bad thing either. I'm just saying that just it. When you get four or five generations into it, though. And then you're like, confused about stuff. And yeah, yeah. And then you're like, Well, what? What's the real truth thing we so sometimes it's nice to put it down in the tree and, like, really just do the bare bones of it. And then, yeah, things start to make sense again. And then, and then, from that you can, you can incorporate all the other stuff, and then it just lie. It has like, it lies different in your Yeah, you know. So that's kind of been my thing lately, mainly. Oh, another thing too, is I was told my whole life we have creep blood, and so people would always call us like, Cree babies are like here. So here's like, crow the crow word for creep. But I think a lot of tribal just use that word. So after doing this family tree and finding out where people were from, yeah, where people were enrolled, we have no Cree blood in us at all,

shandin pete:

like none. So it was a myth.

Aaron Brien:

It was a myth. And I think what it was is because at one time, the term Cree in Montana was kind of a generic term for, like, just another tribe, you know, yeah, yeah. It so happens to be a real tribe. So then

shandin pete:

it also seemed like was a word used to indicate that the person was not full, or, you know, half yes was mixed, yep.

Aaron Brien:

That's yeah, yeah, yeah.

shandin pete:

So yeah, that's that goes along the line of, sort of that thing that a lot of people say, and it seems sort of not, well, I don't know you think about it, and you can see how it could be true, but you're not sure. Everyone says, you know, I come from a line of chiefs. Well, really, I mean, somebody probably told them that. They just, you know, you don't question. You just say, okay, yeah, I believe it, yeah. But I mean, not everybody can. Come from a chief, you know, no. Or what kind of Chief? I don't know. I don't know, yeah, but then again, it's like you said you didn't want to knock anybody's family and not like you could. You don't want to disprove, no, you didn't. He didn't come from no

Aaron Brien:

chief, yeah, and I'm getting to the point where I'm like, fully okay with, like, arguing with my relatives, you know, they're like, Well, this is what Grandma told us. And I was like, well, grandma was wrong. I mean, she was a person, yeah.

shandin pete:

I mean, it happens. Don't matter. Just because it's grandma

Aaron Brien:

and people are like, you don't have no respect, blah, blah, blah, and it's like, wow, we also don't come from their era, so that the need to do that isn't there anymore. I'm okay with, like, brutal truths, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're secure. I don't want to repeat, I don't want to repeat some of this stuff. So, yeah, we all know reservation life is hard, and it was harder at the turn of the century. Yeah. So the last thing I want to do is perpetuate some of that stuff and keep going. But I can't do that until I identify it, until I say, hey, like, do an inventory of like, here's our traumas, here's all the chaos, and then figure out where, like, root problems come from. Because my only inheritance, just like many reservation people, has been to inherit drama, yeah, I know, yeah, dysfunction, you know, so I don't want to give that to my kids. So, yeah, there's no probate hearings over a historic trauma.

shandin pete:

There's no probate over chronic depression and alcoholism.

Aaron Brien:

For us un allotted Indians, this is our only thing we get to hand off. No, I don't know. I know for a fact that if there's people from reservations listening to this, it's really, I know it's relatable, but it's also a hard subject for some people, because, again, you don't want to offend, yeah, Grandma, you

shandin pete:

know, yeah, you don't want to that's hard for people, and man, especially when grandma said it to sort of dislodge that. It takes a lot of evidence, and sometimes just it can never be enough. It reminds me of the saying that I heard once, what was on another podcast. They said, You can you can change. They're talking about like experts in things. You know you said you can change. You can change the mind of 40 experts with one truth, but you can't change the minds of 40 fools with one truth. That the way it goes. I don't know Anyway, saying that people who don't want to listen and open up things, they're not going to it don't matter what sort of evidence you place in front of them, it's just not going to happen. Could be the truest thing. It just ain't going to work. Yeah, that's interesting. When I was just looking at this, this I must have been watching the movie when I took this note, because it's related to what you're saying now about trauma, and it looks like I was watching a Vin Diesel movie. And I bet you can guess which movie it was. I think I can. I put a quote by Vin Diesel Bo. I don't think that was his name in this movie, you keep what you kill. What movie was that? Really Private Ryan? Not Oh, really Riddick, Saving Private Ryan. Well, also

Aaron Brien:

what I take a lot of pride in the fact that I've only watched a couple the Yeah, that's a point of pride. Yeah, yeah, I only watching caparsal. You know caparzo. I've never seen it anyway. It's not a movie. That's his name on Saving Private Ryan.

shandin pete:

Was he in Saving Private Ryan? Vin, diesel. I didn't know that

Aaron Brien:

he's caparzo. What?

shandin pete:

Yeah, not to look at the pictures. Remember, he

Aaron Brien:

saved the French girl, the little girl, and then he gets runs out onto the end of the building. He gets shot. He's like, I had to Sarge. She reminded me of my niece. Oh, yeah, spoiler, spoiler, boiler, I don't know

shandin pete:

Yeah. Anyway, I wrote, yeah, you're right in I didn't even, I didn't even recognize that that was Vin Diesel. He's not all buck. Then is he? He's just like a regular dude, regular sized dude, right?

Aaron Brien:

I mean. I don't I think he's in relatively good shape. Was he jacked in Riddick?

shandin pete:

You flipped the script on that one on me? Okay, well, this is what, this is what I wrote about this. Yeah, it was one of the Riddick series, and I, I wrote this weird thing, and I was just trying to figure out what the heck I was meaning. So, relating this to emotions, we try to eradicate them from our life. We essentially killing them, like, say, depression, right? We want to get rid of our depression. Want to kill it from our lives. Yeah, we do that, right? Do you agree? All right, yep, so in the tradition of death, especially, such as hunting. How does this relate? So if we kill depression, where does its remnants go?

Aaron Brien:

That's what you wrote in there. Man, chill out, dude.

shandin pete:

And then I put a note for myself check on death via battle. What is the construct that resolves this with warrior conflict? What am I talking about here? What am I talking about? This is not a good one to launch a book. Well, I think

Aaron Brien:

that's part of the fun is just read it. Just okay, read. The read the whole. Should I call it a passage? Let's call it a let's call

shandin pete:

it a passage. Yes, I'm going to read this passage.

Aaron Brien:

Read the whole Sira. What is that?

shandin pete:

Okay? Quote, you keep what you kill. That's Riddick in one of his, one of his movies, actor, Vin Diesel. So this is what I wrote, relating to emotion or vices. We try to eradicate them from our lives. We kill them in this tradition on death, especially like hunting. How does this relate? If we, if we kill, quote, depression, where does its remnants go check on death via battle? What is the construct that resolves this with warrior conflict? That's some important thought on that at that time. But what it is now,

Aaron Brien:

okay, and What year was this?

shandin pete:

This was fairly recent, actually, because I don't know my other notebook is in my all the 2011 stuff is it skips from 2011 to 2000 to 2015 and then 2022 so this was 2022

Aaron Brien:

that that was 2022 22 That's embarrassing. Come on, man, there was some we were, we were doing the podcast in 2022

shandin pete:

we were, we were, I'll tell you what episode we were doing at that time too. Yeah, 2000 Yeah. So I think this is what I'm this is what I was. Because I think at that time I was, if I look back in my notes, I was heavily investigating, what was it here?

Aaron Brien:

Vin Diesel's filmography, no, no, no, no, no, no, this catalog, if you will. What was I investigating here? Miranda senior, listening like, what

shandin pete:

I don't know, what I don't have much before it, then after, it is a totally different subject.

Aaron Brien:

I don't know, man, I don't know. To me, it sounds like you were trying to, like, correlate trauma from battle, yeah, and how, how to remedy it. And then you were wanting to use like, Warrior, how did warriors deal with it? Yeah. But then you're equating it to like, I guess depression, huh? I think

shandin pete:

that's what I was, yeah, I think that's, that was my thought. So this might have been, maybe we were, maybe I was thinking about the tradition of telling deeds, right? If we think about that tradition from the past, people would narrate their what they did in battle. Of course, it's really hard for me to understand what the experience of battle was for war years back in the 1800s Is versus soldiers in modern times sent off to like Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq, those kind of places. I don't know what. I don't know how those equate. So like, the issue, the issue with, oh god, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

it might not be that we ever gonna know. It's just Yes, but maybe that's not the point,

shandin pete:

yeah, but I think that's where I was going to was like, there was this, well, what I think was this way where, you know, you warriors, wanted to achieve these deeds, and sometimes that meant you kill, you're killing a person, you know, not all the time. That was probably, you know, there was other things that we that, as we talked about before,

Aaron Brien:

definitely one of them, yeah.

shandin pete:

And so in that, in that idea of a human taking another human's life, there's got to be something that happens psychologically to a person. I think, I think, well, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

I would assume, yeah, yeah. I would hope so, yeah. It wouldn't be the same, you know,

shandin pete:

and I can only imagine, because of some of the responses of like people coming back from these modern wars who have these high level of PTSD, especially like combat combat veterans, you know, they had experienced these things. Maybe, maybe it's beyond just the battle with the enemy, but all sort of like the collateral, the collateral damage that they might have witnessed. I don't really know, you know, I, I don't know, but I think that's what I was I think that that that's what I was getting at was, if you if it, and I don't know, I don't, haven't read a whole lot of narratives of past battles, like from the 1800s but I the things that I did, I that I have read, is that these these warriors would try to find people with, like, the nice stuff, and go try to kill them so they could take their things, you know, yeah, that was just the way it was, you know, yeah. So that idea of you keep what you kill to apply that to how they would remedy the sort of the psychological effects of war, you know, what was, what was the, what was the way to do it, or did they did in the past? Was there a level of acceptance of of this sort of same PTSD in the past? I just don't know.

Aaron Brien:

We're in over our heads on this all

shandin pete:

from a Vin Diesel,

Aaron Brien:

you're the only person in the history of cinema that Vin Diesel has provoked abstract and philosophical thought. I don't know like Vin Diesel is cool. You want to you spiraled.

shandin pete:

Man, that did. Man, I went way off on that one. It was just one little paragraph of a note. It doesn't do justice of

Aaron Brien:

someone. What's the next one? Let's go on to the next one.

shandin pete:

Oh, okay. I mean, okay, here's, here's a good one. Let's see. I just had it and I lost it. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Oh no, that's not it. Where did it go? So here's, here's an interesting quote. Here's an interesting quote I pulled out of podcast I was listening to. Maybe you can help me understand what I was talking about. The effects of ideology can conceal what they are in position to know from them. Nope, no, no, no, that's not enough.

Aaron Brien:

I don't know what you're talking about. Say, read it one more time.

shandin pete:

The effects of ideology can conceal what they are in a position to know from them.

Aaron Brien:

What it sounds like to me is like it's the Pharisees argument. It almost sounds like you're kind of going with that, which is like to to quote our Christian brethren, yeah, to you to to refer to our Christian brethren. So that was Jesus argument. Right is that they're allowing doctrine and ideology to get in the way of true spirituality and understand in a relationship with God, right? Okay, well, I'm not not verbatim for when he didn't speak English, American English. And, yeah, the whole Prince, Prince is the principle. The idea of Jesus was that he was challenging the current state of of religion in Jerusalem, right in Israel. So, same thing. Martin Luther did the same thing, and with the Catholic Church, right? He said, hey, yeah, you guys are getting all this stuff is getting in the way of all of this. So it almost sounds like you're, you're kind of leaning towards that, I think, like

shandin pete:

that wasn't, yeah, that was a quote from someone that wasn't me saying that. It was a quote.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, well, that was a horrible quote to write down because it's, like, real convoluted so it does, doesn't make sense. Let's move on. It's not a clean it's not a bumper sticker. That's not a bumper sticker, not a bumper sticker. We need more bumper sticker quotes. That's what we need. Okay, we need.

shandin pete:

Okay, let me find some bumper sticker quotes. Let's see. Here's let's see the breakthrough. They break through the curtain that Western science puts there. No, that's not a good one to see.

Aaron Brien:

That's definitely a bumper. That's indigenous.

shandin pete:

Scholar, yeah, scholar one. Oh, here we go. This is an interesting one. I don't know who said it, but I wrote it down. I don't think we are spiritually mature enough to handle it.

Aaron Brien:

That sounds like shit. I see. I

shandin pete:

don't know what the reference was to or what. But around it is the reverse, what, what? What is a child's responsibility? Okay, indigenous people. This is, I think this is me making a note about this thing. Let's see if it makes any sense. I'm just reading it raw here. Indigenous people talking about spirituality need censorship, responsibility in the way we present this information. The trend is that the new learner, or returned learner, seems to be the first to talk about this as a form of credibility as a knower, yeah, yeah, yeah. Likely most community, active indigenous folks may not talk about this, nor have the amplified experience. This is an issue, especially when outsiders are consuming this information. Now we we've hammered on this one a lot. I think love it, but we've kind of given it. We this is what we've done, though, what do they say you treat it with, like the soft your soft hands, or your soft mitts? We haven't been that sharp about it,

Aaron Brien:

Cape gloves, the caped glove. You're talking about soft mitts. You're on one today, man, I don't know.

shandin pete:

But in other words, we've, we've, we've tried to be very diplomatic about it,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, but I'm gonna say this, like, okay, these. And when I say young people, I'm not talking about like, age young. Like, just, yeah, the learner, right? The problem of being a secondary cultural learner, or language learner in your own community, is different being that of a cultural learner, secondary, late learner in an academic setting, these people in academic setting are out of hand.

shandin pete:

Man, say it. Man, just say it. They're out of hand,

Aaron Brien:

just like they're saying all this other crazy stuff. Man, yeah, this is like, the con shell stuff and, yeah, like, it's just too much, man.

shandin pete:

But I've made an observation about this just recently,

Aaron Brien:

and it for the record, I'm guilty of this too.

shandin pete:

Yeah, no, no. I mean, we can't, we can't talk about this without placing ourselves directly as the bearer of blame or participant of it. We can't man. So when we talk about it, we're not trying to point the finger. We're just trying to say, here's the issue. We're all part of it. Is that what you're trying to say, that's the soft mitts.

Aaron Brien:

You just killed it. Did I kill it like kill I'm just saying I, I, I'm good. Between me is I got checked, right? So once I got checked and I realized, like, oh yeah, I am doing that. Yeah, I've been really self conscious about it, and I don't, I don't want that to be my thing. In fact, aside from this podcast, I don't do anything anymore in that. Yeah, world, because that's just not where the word take took me. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry about that.

shandin pete:

Well, I was thinking about this, this thing I wrote right here that you heard about, yeah, spirituality. Spirituality needs censorship. Now we've talked about this, about the antithesis of that, though we're saying, No, we shouldn't censor those kind of things. It should be free and wide and open to anybody, right when we talked about, especially, we talked about recording things, remember,

Aaron Brien:

Oh, yeah. This, yeah, this, yeah, this is a topic. This is a topic

shandin pete:

because I think we said that, but I don't know if we exactly fleshed out exactly what, like the different scenarios that are possible within that statement of, yeah, you ought to record stuff, but there's some things that happen that were not favorable, I guess when,

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, yeah. I think that statement is kind of like naive too, because we both come from the tape recorder time. So, yeah, recording stuff was like, like a thing, there's like a chore. So like, I gotta unwrap my tape I got, yeah, I gotta write on the little label, yeah. I gotta put it in the tape player, which is loud. I gotta make sure my batteries, yeah, you know, I gotta take noise reduction off, because only losers recorded noise reduction. So that's the whole thing, right? So, like, if we didn't all carry our tape recorders, so although we advocate for it, we were also in situations where we just didn't have tape recorders, like, so we weren't always recording. So this idea that we're not even in that situation because our mindset is different, yeah? These young people, your phone, you can just record everything all the time, yeah? So, yeah, there's times not to record, right? There's times to record, there's times to record and not share. Yeah, that I think people, people tend to think that if you say I'm going to record this, it's because you're going to share it. That's not necessarily the case all the time, you know? Yeah, like, I don't know. I don't drive around and I pick up and listen to Nicki Minaj and Justin Timberlake. I listen to pro Indian music, you know, like, yeah, yeah. Where did I get all that? How do I get it? Yeah, it's not on iTunes, right, right. What am I supposed to listen to if I'm an Indian person, you know,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah, agreed. There's

Aaron Brien:

people didn't record, I'd be stuck listening to

shandin pete:

Nicki Minaj and Nicki Minaj, yeah, the Minaj. So that, that conversation we had, there's, there's more to it than what we presented. I think we didn't quite get to, oh, there

Aaron Brien:

is, I think overall, it's weird because I would, I would agree, yeah, for sure, you don't want to, like, post a bunch of stuff and record everything. Like, sometimes, like, but how do you teach young people to, like, read the room, right? Like, yeah, there's just times yeah, you don't need to record, yeah. That takes practical because it would kill, it'll just kill the mood, you know? Yeah, practical experience dictates, yes, but this, like, weird notion that, like, recording is somehow gonna, like, kill the spirit of whatever it is you're doing, or, like, the Yeah, yo, chase off the spirits. Like, well, then if you're following a belief that week, you shouldn't be doing it.

shandin pete:

I although some people, like even no older people, really heavily believe that, you know,

Aaron Brien:

oh, yeah, yeah. I think it just all comes back to having to hide and do your religion. Yeah, yeah. You don't want stuff getting out because it's all illegal. You can't do it. You're supposed to go into mountains and do it and hide and, yeah, don't tell anybody. It's invite only if you don't know. I think all of that comes from a lot of that comes from having to hide. It's illegal. Yeah, they're gonna come and shut you down.

shandin pete:

Yeah. Yeah, agreed, yeah. I remember there was an instance where some ethnographer, illegally, if you will, or on the sly, recorded some, some pretty heavy duty medicine things, you know. And then later that year, those two people that he had recorded their things, they ended up dying. And so that was attributed back to that situation where that shouldn't have been done and and, you know, maybe it lead, it leads back to a deeper spiritual construct about those songs and how they ought to be handled and managed. In a certain way. But that's like, that's like, way beyond, yeah, the the thing we were trying to talk about, I believe, Oh, and then, like,

Aaron Brien:

you, we were actually kind of talking about stuff like this just now. But it's also like, we sometimes, we have to look at other factors too. Like, were these people diabetic and just not taking care of themselves? And you know what I mean? Like, so like, sometimes I think, like one time Michael from boys, he said, he said, someone like, hit an owl.

shandin pete:

Oh, yeah, yeah. You remember this story he told yeah? He said this one, yeah.

Aaron Brien:

And he was like, well, sometimes owls just die, yeah, you know, like, owls gotta live. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, fly around. That doesn't mean every time you see an owl, it's like, this catastrophic thing is gonna happen. It's like, come on, we're like, killing their habitat. We're gonna run into them a little more.

shandin pete:

So it's Yeah, well, we remember when we talked to Terry about something related to this, about belief and words and how powerful those things can be to an individual, and how that operates within your within your spiritual construct. I don't know if you remember that, but where's I pulled a quote out of someone from his from his community there that said, you know, you can actually think somebody to death. You know, if you think so badly about him, you're like wishing this real bet, real bad on them. And how that can somewhat manifest into the that thing really happening. Do you ever have talking about it?

Aaron Brien:

Uh, I don't remember talking about that with Terry, but I also, I mean, I think that comes down to, like, people's individual things they possess. Yeah, so I that stuff. I don't, I mean, I don't know if that's for the tribal research podcast, but could you record a whistle at a powwow? Yeah, I think you can.

shandin pete:

You're muted. You're muted. Am I muted? Now? How long was I muted? For a while, really? Yeah, what did you learn? Anything you said? What did you last hear me say?

Aaron Brien:

The fort Belk. Donna thing. Oh, okay, I didn't miss too much. Then, yeah, then you started talking just now, and I couldn't hear you. Oh, yeah,

shandin pete:

yeah, the whistle, yeah, I've been demonstrated that it's Yeah. We talked about that. Let's not talk about that anymore. But that's sort of level where we're at. That next level is a bit more complicated in a way. Yeah, so that was an interesting thing that I wrote down. I wrote that down when I was attending this conference. And you want to know the name of this.

Aaron Brien:

I need to know the name. Yeah.

shandin pete:

No, this is gonna it was called the Turtle Island boom, indigenous Science Conference. Bam.

Aaron Brien:

How about Exactly? That's exactly what quotes like that from the Turtle Island conference. Yeah, they're in over their heads. Yeah.

shandin pete:

I mean, I wouldn't say everybody, but this is where you get a certain type of presentation of these things, and it comes in this fashion, I would say,

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, we still need to go to one of these conferences and do, like, a live, like, where we're, like, talking about what was presented and stuff,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah, yeah, we do need to do that.

Aaron Brien:

Okay, read the next what's the next thing? Okay, here's

shandin pete:

something else this. I might wrote a really I wrote a really long thing, but I'm gonna read this shorter one. I don't know what it says yet. I'm just gonna start reading it. Here we go. Spirituality is often relied on as a means to support claims made by these scholars. However, there is rarely a deconstruction beyond the romantic notion that comprises only small parts of spirituality. I feel that indigenous science is also cast as a superior approach to knowledge production. There, there is an exceedingly obvious effort to cast Western science as a flawed tradition.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, I agree with the quote, yeah, that's actually good one. Well.

shandin pete:

No, there you go. That's yeah. So I mean, and we've talked about this man many times and that this, oh yeah, I was gonna go back to this thing wrong though. Okay, tell me,

Aaron Brien:

I don't think Western science is completely flawed.

shandin pete:

No, that's what I was saying. That's what I'm saying.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, yeah, I'm in agreement with I didn't say you were wrong, they're wrong.

shandin pete:

Oh yeah, yeah, thou, thou thine.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh

shandin pete:

yeah. So I was thinking about this, especially in relation to how things are written. And you know you know of this because we talked about this in a past episode about the metaphor, how the metaphor snuck its way into into a native lore as being a primary mode to communicate indigenous thought, right? Yeah, yeah, speak natives speak metaphorically. When we had a long conversation about how that is not always true, it's not, yeah, it's just, we

Aaron Brien:

just, when it comes to most cultural information, it's, it's pretty straightforward,

shandin pete:

yeah, pretty straightforward, yeah, well, that's that sort of stereotype. I think it propagated now. That's, it seems like, that's the way that scholars think they ought to write metaphorically. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with writing very poetically and creatively and No, nothing

Aaron Brien:

at all. But I think sometimes it's fun, more a lot more fun to read,

shandin pete:

way easier to read, right? Yeah. But I think what, what can happen in that is if, if, if a reader is not in a certain place to deconstruct that metaphor, then it could be taken at face value, if you know what I mean, yeah.

Aaron Brien:

And I think most times it is right, yeah, yeah.

shandin pete:

So when somebody says, for example, you know, the the trees are my teachers, that could be taken for face value, yeah. Whereas, you know, if you, if you sort of reconstructed that, and someone said, Well, I got my, you know, my gift to heal wounds from a from Aspen tree. And, you know, then they can describe them just making something up, totally making something up, you know, yeah, and the root. The root is the root. Compound is prepared in a certain way to help with that. That has a whole nother meaning. Rather than just saying, the trees are my teachers, you know, it deconstructs it. Yeah. What that means? So, you know, even though that statement can be true, metaphorically, the trees are my teachers to the novice reader. Or though those outside of an indigenous construct of of knowing things, can flip that and read it at base value,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, even in those rare cases where the actual tree is your teacher. Like, I think that's how it has to be treated, where it's like, it's not out of the realm of our history and our possibility, but most times it's going to be the way you're you're talking about it, you know,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's what I wrote. Man, nice. This was in 2002 I got more. Are we moving?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, let's move on. From now on, let's go. This is fun, because that one's good. I like that one. Contrary to what people think, I don't think all of Western science is flawed. No, I think the act of indigenous scientific research is still where. It's still Western. Yeah, I don't know why we think it's not like, yeah, yeah, just because we add some native words to our publication. It's still, it's still just, it's still within that world. So I don't, I don't know,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah, that that's one of the issues. Yeah, yeah. Okay, go ahead. Let's see do it. You want to do it in the same in the same line, or should I move to a different page.

Aaron Brien:

Let's go to a different page. Man, go to the Okay, here we go. Go to a different book, a different

shandin pete:

gospel. This one is, um, Okay, this one's a bit different. Let me see. Let me just read it, because I'm not sure what it says yet, but let's see if it has some meaning. Okay, this is but. Belief aims of the truth. Belief aims of the truth. So belief is an action of accepting an instance as a resident of truth. Okay to believe in anything, one must accept its manifestation as a part of one's desire for it to be So, further for it to be so it intuitively benefits the believer in some way, belief does not mean that it will manifest. It is more a wish or hopefulness that it will manifest that might take another read. You follow that, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

I mean, kind of, kind of you were on something that day, though I don't know what you did. Man, I

shandin pete:

I think following that, I wrote like, three pages of notes about

Aaron Brien:

that had to be, like, after, like a holiday break or something when you weren't, because it ain't at the end of the semester.

shandin pete:

You know, no, I was going off on this one. Let's see belief, okay, I'm reading again, or am I a little less dense? Read it again. Alright, here we go. Belief is an action of accepting an instance as a resident of truth. So belief is an action of accepting an instance as a resident of truth, got it,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, but I think you're describing faith.

shandin pete:

Are you sure? Because I think I wrote belief.

Aaron Brien:

I mean, I know what you wrote,

shandin pete:

yeah, yeah, no, I just kidding, man, come on. Come on. It baited you, and you took the bait. Okay, you got it. Okay. So to believe in anything, one must accept its manifestation as a part of one's desire for it to be so.

Aaron Brien:

So basically, like you have to accept the outcomes,

shandin pete:

let's see, to believe in anything, you must accept its manifestation as a part of one's desire for it to be. So, so to believe something, you have to have the desire for it. Like belief doesn't come from anything but a desire for it to be. I think that's what I was trying to say. So belief, yeah, I believe, doesn't just come out of nowhere. It's a human desire, right? That's, I think, yeah, yeah. It can be, yeah. So further for it to be. So it intuitively benefits the believer in some way. So connecting with desire and belief and benefit. So we desire it because it's a of a benefit to us.

Aaron Brien:

Okay, yeah, I would say you're not. Yeah, that's I mean that, yeah, I could see it, yeah.

shandin pete:

Just stop a first read seems to make sense, really hard

Aaron Brien:

to understand, though, you're you're some sometimes when you we write in these journals, yeah, they're really incomplete thoughts, because they're like, we're not jotting down everything that brought us to that point, right?

shandin pete:

Yeah, there's some stuff missing, yeah? So belief does not mean that it will manifest. It is more a wish or a hopefulness that it will manifest. So it's just connecting back to this idea of the will, the desire, the thing you want to happen, like you're wishing for it. I don't know if I say anything at all in this whole paragraph. Next that's not a cool way to say it, yeah. I mean, that's yeah, that there's no this

Aaron Brien:

puts us right. In the mind of a true indigenous scholar,

shandin pete:

there's nothing like it. There's, there's something to bite on there. Because the things you desire as an indigenous person is gonna, is gonna vary, but they're central, central to the idea of wishing, and luck central to that so trying to manifest luck so that your wish will come true. Yeah, yeah. Next, let's see where we're at. Okay, I got a bunch of garbage here. Oh, here. Let's see. It might be something interesting here. Let's see. Need, oh, oh yeah, we talked about this one. I think we, I think we flesh this one out in the episode. Code, because I said this, there's a need to trace where the term elder arrived in our collective need to locate the reference for this from language text. I hear that a lot. You hear it a lot too, the elders and even people are it's almost like a title now, like Doctor, Doctor. Brin elder. Brin community elder, we're gonna invite community elder Aaron Brin to the feed.

Aaron Brien:

And when you're not when you're not old, they call you knowledge keeper,

shandin pete:

yeah, when you're not old, you're just a knowledge keeper,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, we should come up with the ranking system of, like, a learner, a cultural learner, yeah, to an elder, like, let's do that, right, yeah? What are all the terms we hear? You know? Yeah, I'm, I'm a first year late language learner.

shandin pete:

I'm a Class C language learner.

Aaron Brien:

I'm a class I'm a class b4,

shandin pete:

I just got my before certification the other day. It's like I'm in all I need,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, teaching, what not in teaching, no, no, no, learning, oh and learning, yeah, I'm certified in language learning.

shandin pete:

Oh yeah. I got my class four as a learner. Yeah, all I need is my. I need my. What is it? Craftsmanship, four certificate, then I can advance to young,

Aaron Brien:

my annual my annual email,

shandin pete:

my annual eval. Then I advance.

Aaron Brien:

I'm a knowledge keepers available. My email is right at the top of their desk.

shandin pete:

Yeah, and if I pass that, I'll be an apprentice knowledge keeper,

Aaron Brien:

an apprentice right now, I'm, I'm, I'm not an apprentice. I have not been accepted into apprentice, but I'm right there. I'm knocking on the door, buddy, I'm knocking on the door. I mean, I don't know if I'll ever get to elder, but I really hope to be knowledge keepers today, like I've been working at it. I got my knowledge dojo. I got my knowledge Dojo I've been putting in the reps time, the mat time, you know,

shandin pete:

man, yeah, we need

Aaron Brien:

they called me. They recently dubbed me the song keeper of the language learners. So whatever you know, I I mean, it's humble brag. You know,

shandin pete:

we got to say the things. We got to acknowledge these things. I mean, has to be acknowledged.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, yeah. I mean,

shandin pete:

I don't know, yeah, I don't know if any of these other quotes are gonna way out there. Man, they are way out there. Yeah. Do we want to do? Let's do

Aaron Brien:

one more, way out there. Quote, way like, far, far far away, okay.

shandin pete:

Well, maybe this one's not too bad. Okay, here we go. I want you to deconstruct this, and I want you to think of a real, practical, practical interpretation with a series of points that the listener can grab onto and provide a a forum of discussion at the family dinner table. That'd be kind of cool, though. Alright, here we go. Ready. Put your thinking cap on, got it on, listening. Tell her, put her thinking cap on.

Aaron Brien:

You got your thinking cap on, put it on. Alright, here we go. Now.

shandin pete:

I'm just going straight in. I don't I haven't read this yet. I don't know, but it looks like good one. Tribal societies possess a moral and a value structure that was inherited or created in response to a problem from somewhere in the past.

Aaron Brien:

Obvious observation, I know, yeah, so. Never made it do like scholarly works. Tribal people learn from their mistakes. Boom.

shandin pete:

We're the only ones that do that. We only do that. Yeah, you only get that here. Tribal research specialist, okay, further out, there's more. It's building on something I think, I think the social institution was framed to ensure propagation into the future boom. I don't know if that was more obvious, but there's more. I don't even know what that means. Okay, well, let's think about it. The social institution just the fancy way of saying, you know, the the tribal, tribal community, I guess, was framed to ensure propagation into the future. Okay, I don't know. Maybe I'm searching for something to say here in this quote, oh, for Okay, here we go. It keeps going. No, there's, there's a few more sentences. The site, the cyclic nature of the environment was somewhat predictably given, was somewhat predictably given the occurrence of reliable indicators. Yet if the environment was in a degree of flux, then it then its predictability had more variance following along, possibly the more unpredictable parts of tribal life was human to human interactions. Social cues and needs can supply some predictability, but in order to reduce variance, certain norms, customs and traditions were needed to provide emphasis or encouragement toward predictable behavior. How or when does this cross over into the norms of the environment. I get what I was saying there, do you get what I was saying? There? You pick up what I'm saying.

Aaron Brien:

Can you tell me?

shandin pete:

No, I need you. I gave you a job. You need to deconstruct what the heck I was saying. I think I know what I'm saying.

Aaron Brien:

I have no idea what you're saying. Oh, my God,

shandin pete:

I don't. I can't read that again. Man, I can't read that again. I think this is what I'm saying, though. And maybe you'll, you'll be in agreeance or disagreeance. So nature, the environment, is, is can be predictable in a certain way, like, for example, you know, the seasons are coming by certain environmental cues, right? We're talking about the past. We're talking about sort of the past, and within that, within the constellation of things that humans use to provide predictability. Things of nature were part of that, right? You could there's things that we did to predict how cold the winter was going to be, how much snow there's going to be, how hot summer was, etc, those kind of things. There's always this attempt to predict, to prepare, right? And so what I'm saying was, is that the more unpredictable part of all of that is not really in nature, but more human to human things, right? Because we're just human people. And it's that sometimes that's a hard thing, if anybody's in a relationship, you know that human to human interaction can become strained by misinterpretation or have or or those kind of things. So I'm saying, in order to reduce that variance or two, for things to be more predictable and a human to human relational whatever like these norms, these customs and traditions were, were central to Providing that predictability by emphasizing predictable behavior.

Aaron Brien:

I think so, yeah, I think shit that was really It started out pretty clear for me, yeah, and then she took a turn. And then fully know, but I think I get it, yeah, so I want to get it okay?

shandin pete:

So norms, traditions and customs, those are the things that are equivalent to the things in nature where you predict what's going to happen. Yeah, okay, yeah. I think that's what I was trying to say. But more I was emphasizing that the tradition, the norm and the. Them are the things that take away the variance and how we treat each other. Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

I mean, yeah, it's a lot. There was a lot. It's badass when your explanation is more confusing. That wasn't the point like I'm trying over here, man, I'm fucking trying to

shandin pete:

clarify it. I'm trying to clarify it. Okay, okay, so we behave. We behave in a way. So not we, but let's, let's crows behave in a certain way that's guided by at least in the past, probably today too, by the traditions and the customs and the norms, those sort of tell you how you treat each other. Yeah, yeah, there's a tradition that happens. There's a customer. Why didn't you just say that? Well, I did, but I but I didn't, but so then there's more to it, there's more to it. There's more to it. So All right, so if you buy into that, that as a as a thing that exists, those things are meant to take away the variance in of unpredictability. Uh, so you know how you ought to treat and you know you know how you ought to treat. Your mother in law, your mother in law knows how to treat you, so there's no unpredictability in that relationship. Yeah, because tradition and custom norms have already prescribed how that works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all I was

Aaron Brien:

trying to say, Shandi, Mama day, no, no.

shandin pete:

Mama day, nothing. I'm just, I'm just restating the obvious in a way that just uses fancy words. That was not obvious. But my point was, I think at the end, this is when I don't understand. So you get that, you get all that. You get the two things, yeah, I don't get what I was trying to say at the end, how and why does this cross over into the norms of the environment? I don't know what I mean there. I don't know, huh, what kind of environment? Yeah, exactly. I think I was thinking about the natural environment. Oh, okay, nature, nature.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, okay. I think you're probably trying to, like, make a correlation between does the natural world have an effect on social life.

shandin pete:

Maybe, yeah, maybe, maybe I don't know next. All right, all right, all right, right, right.

Aaron Brien:

This episode is being like we're getting in the mind of Sean Dean Pete. Doctor, Sean Dean Pete,

shandin pete:

I've got, I've got this. No, I can't read. None of that. That's too much, man,

Aaron Brien:

unless we save some for the next episode. Kind of fun.

shandin pete:

We can do that. I want to. I want to get my old book, because I got some really weird questions in there that probably aren't relevant, but they're pretty funny that I have back in 2005 once. Yeah, you know, let's

Aaron Brien:

do that. You know what I've done in the past? Yeah? Because, like, I'll be working on a research deal, even if it's like, just for myself, like, you know, working on something, yeah, take notes. Yeah. I throw those notes away once I'm done with my project. What? Yeah, that's bad. It's a bad habit, man, but I don't want them floating around because, you know, many times I've sat in archives and had to read somebody's goddamn philosophical bullshit. Three pages later, they end up going, That was ridiculous. What I was saying, you know, I don't want to, I don't want my stuff to end up in an archive somewhere where some future crow kid is gonna read it and be like, What the hell is this guy talking about? You know, why are all these, like, random phone numbers, get milk? It's always look, yeah, and the only reason I seen this one time is because Frank Linderman. Frank Linderman, Frank bird Linderman, wrote a book about my great, great, great grandmother, pretty shield, right? Yeah. So one day, I thought it'd be cool man to like, go and check out his notes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was cool for a little while. Then it got crazy, and then he, like, starts kind of dogging on my family. I. Oh, and I'm like, I don't know if Frank ever wanted this stuff. This is not meant because it doesn't contribute to the work. It's just like, his he's like, Oh, I had to meet with so and so today. Geez, aren't they a idiot, you know? And then, first of all, it's like, I know what you're talking about. This is equivalent to people posting on Facebook, right? Like, when you got no friends, you

shandin pete:

just posted, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Brien:

I went to the bank today and this lady smelled and she was standing in front of me in line. I don't care. Like, I don't care at all. That was like, his stuff, like he didn't have no place to like. He didn't place the social media. So it was the 30s, like writing it down and then probably thinking it's never gonna go anywhere. And then his granddaughter decides, one day, we're gonna get all of pop Pop's scholarly works in the library and medulla, all of pot, they would love it. And as long as pop pop can help help somebody learn. And then what she doesn't know is that pop pop is just talking shit 10 linear feet. That's a curation joke, yeah, yeah, the fawns, yeah. Pop Pop started out pretty good, and then now pop, pop is pretty racist. He's a hater, racist.

shandin pete:

Pops racist. He's misogynistic.

Aaron Brien:

Pop, pop is referring to women as dames. And so, yeah, no, Linderman never referred to women as dames, and it didn't appear that he was racist. He was just fancied himself an excellent writer. So he was pretty good. He was pretty good.

shandin pete:

I've come across that before. Yeah, anthropologists are the ethnographer just bagging on the people, just like I showed up and they're all just laying around. It's already three o'clock and nobody's doing nothing.

Aaron Brien:

Well, remember the Schaefer papers? Oh, yeah. Girl smoking the cigarette. The little girl, yeah, and he was like, there's a little kid smoking a cigarette. What the hell going on here?

shandin pete:

Yeah, let's wrap this one man. I'm gonna, well, I don't, I don't want to pre read these. I just want to, I want to show them raw. But I'm gonna get my other book, then the next episode, we'll read some thoughts, some early 2000s thoughts by funding Pete, yeah, and we'll laugh and laugh and have a great time. But otherwise, let's wrap this one now. Yeah, peace, peace, you

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Aaron Brien

Host
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Shandin Pete

Host