Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast

#60 - Deossifying Myths at the Crossroad of Modern Tribal Boundaries

• Shandin Pete, Aaron Brien • Season 3 • Episode 60

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Introductions 0:00
Discussion on Leftovers and Turkey 3:00
Cultural Dependence on Buffalo 9:28
Cultural Politics and Narrative Dominance 14:16
Intermixing of Cultures and Cultural Preservation 32:08
Challenges in Cultural Preservation and Future Directions 45:41

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Salisha Old Bull (Salish/Apsáalooke), (Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., Brien, A. & Old Bull, S. A. (Hosts). (2025, February 25). #60 - Deossifying Myths at the Crossroad of Modern Tribal Boundaries [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com

How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast]. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/

Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Shandin Pete:

So, um, I, I got a kind of an outline, but I didn't send it to nobody, so we're just gonna freestyle it. You know, this

Aaron Brien:

Shaun Dean always says, I haven't prepped for this, or I haven't. I haven't made an outline. I've never read one of his outlines. Never he'll email to me, here's the here's some notes. Never looked at him, and I've told him, I don't, I don't look at him, but he still insists on doing them. But that's the difference between a PhD and an MA.

Shandin Pete:

I'm just saying that's not the only difference, come on, there is. That's the only difference. No, I say no, there's. That's not the only difference. There's one

Aaron Brien:

other difference. Oh, you know, it's called comms. You

Shandin Pete:

pretty much

Aaron Brien:

the difference I was going to mention.

Shandin Pete:

Give me the thumbs up, if you can hear this ready. This isn't exactly the intro that I thought it was going to be. What I do. Oh, I switched the names all right. Here goes. I don't know what I did. There's just a marker, pretty much, but we're gonna listen to this place solid. What? No, no, engage. Pick your eyes up. No, no. What is this? What did I do?

Aaron Brien:

Just what is there? A song is there? I

Shandin Pete:

grabbed the wrong one. I can change that real quickly. There's a song, and I, I put a lot of work play the song, not this one. Isn't the one.

Aaron Brien:

What? Apparently, not that much. What the hell

Shandin Pete:

happened? Where did those save Bucha League? This is Bucha. Bucha. Where is it at? All right, I know where it's at. I didn't test this. God, darn it. What a dunce.

Aaron Brien:

Hold on. If you could hear the first 10 minutes of every podcast before we we the stuff we publish, you would have never agreed to. All

Shandin Pete:

right, I'm just going to play gonna play this right off. It's, it's, yeah, there's the right one. Can

Aaron Brien:

you hear that? Yes, wow. What are we looking at here? More

Shandin Pete:

importantly, can you hear it? No, cannot hear it. I didn't share the sound. That's why no son of a gun. All right, let's do this again. Share sound okay. Here it is. Let's see If you can hear this. I about a month or so back, just just by chance. We was getting solution. Wanted to go to the bead store, you know, in Spokane. So we went down there, and he strolled in, just out of the blue, holy cow, acorn. What's up? Oh, just looking for some spots, or what he was looking for, he's trying to refresh his gear. I guess he hadn't wore it in a while. Oh, yeah, trying to spruce it back up, get it into the 2000 20s. Yeah, I don't know what it takes these days. Yeah, next level outfits out there, you know?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, you remember, you remember post 911 the American flag

Shandin Pete:

outfit for a while.

Aaron Brien:

That man, ever since 911 you were talking about somebody, he was like his outfits sure made a comeback.

Shandin Pete:

The one I liked was this. Was pre 911 but the one I liked was when people tried to put the Canadian and American flag together. Oh like,

Aaron Brien:

yeah. They do the half flags on both sides. Oh

Shandin Pete:

yeah, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

yeah. I think even Black Lodge had a album cover,

Shandin Pete:

oh yeah. Bit of maple a little bit of maple leaf, little bit of starred stripes. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh glory, holy glory and some maple. You

Aaron Brien:

better. You better say that with your chest.

Shandin Pete:

You bet that's awesome. Yeah. So, um, okay, acorn, he says, my post Thanksgiving dinner is dried up, leftovers. Oh, you gotta put it away, man. You gotta wrap it up, cover it, put it in the fridge. But no, I don't mind a little little dry meat, Turkey. You know, that's when she

Aaron Brien:

tried dried mashed potatoes. Sign me up, dude. Sign me

Shandin Pete:

up. Yeah. Man, yeah. Not a lot of things from Thanksgiving you can leave out for long. You ever had a bad turkey.

Aaron Brien:

You don't forget that. You know. The truth is, give me a rotisserie chicken over a turkey any day. Yeah?

Shandin Pete:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to, yeah. What do they do? Rotisserie turkeys. Why don't they do rotisserie turkeys? That's what I want to know. I think it's weird.

Aaron Brien:

I don't know what the deal is with turkeys and their management, because, yeah, they're really only big two months out of the year.

Shandin Pete:

And their management,

Aaron Brien:

their management team, their Becky management team, is dropping the ball, dude, because chicken's killing it.

Shandin Pete:

We need Costco to do a rotisserie turkey. Yeah,

Aaron Brien:

chicken is killing it, dude. I mean, you got, you got your fried chicken, you got your baked chicken, oh yeah, you got your white meat, your dark meat. You got your thighs. Yeah, you got your breasts. You got, you got slice smoked, yeah, salted, unsalted, yeah. I mean, you got chicken, chicken, chicken fingers, chicken, chicken. You got Dino

Shandin Pete:

bites, chicken nuggets, chicken patties,

Aaron Brien:

dude, you got, you got, um, the combinations are and chicken soup, chicken soup, chicken chicken noodle soup. You got, oh,

Shandin Pete:

buffalo wings, acorn buffalo wings. Oh buffalo wings. We forgot about the buffalo wings. Yeah,

Aaron Brien:

so just wings, just wings, wings, buffalo wings in general, wings. And meanwhile, why not turkey wings? Dude, Turkey buffalo wings.

Shandin Pete:

Who eats Turkey wing on Thanksgiving?

Aaron Brien:

I do the dude the way I'm all dark meat, I'm all dark.

Shandin Pete:

You gotta go dark, dude,

Aaron Brien:

even cornish game hen is killing Turkey, dude, cornish game hen is destroying Turkey, right? We get Turkey management

Shandin Pete:

online.

Aaron Brien:

What is their deal?

Shandin Pete:

I don't know. I don't know

Aaron Brien:

explain it to me, man, well,

Shandin Pete:

what? What's their life? What's their life cycle? Maybe they can only get them fat one, you know, one time out of the year. So they just concentrate on the Thanksgiving. I don't know.

Aaron Brien:

There's no shortage of Turkey. I wouldn't think. I wouldn't think it's all shortage Turkey. I say you get Turkey nuggets going.

Shandin Pete:

Why not Dino nugget? Dino Turkey nuggets. The

Aaron Brien:

only thing that Turkey is doing outside of these two months, Turkey sliced meat. That's it. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

Turkey sliced meat. Yeah, what else is there? There's nothing else, right? Turkey,

Aaron Brien:

Turkey, lunch meat.

Shandin Pete:

Turkey,

Aaron Brien:

well, you got turkey gravy?

Shandin Pete:

Can you get turkey gravy? Oh, you can get turkey bacon, can't you?

Aaron Brien:

Which actually isn't bad. Dude, turkey

Shandin Pete:

bacon. I don't think I've tried it. It's not bad. It's not bad. Here's

Aaron Brien:

I want to know something. You don't have to add this in the podcast. If you don't want you can edit this out. But okay, I wanted to know when did your people, the Salish people, often referred to as the Flathead Indians. When did they become dependent on buffalo?

Shandin Pete:

Dependent on buffalo? That's probably um, 1650, 1720, I don't know, like when the horse started to becoming a thing. That's what I

Aaron Brien:

was. We're. Right? They were not buffalo people before that,

Shandin Pete:

I wouldn't say that we weren't, but wasn't as dependent on it. It was, it was enterprise of convenience. You know, if there was buffalo, do you like buffalo? There's elk? You hunt elk. You

Aaron Brien:

have? Do you have evidence for that? Like, is there evidence showing that there was less in the record before the horse, and then it huge influx after. What are you basing that off of I'm just curious. Probably,

Shandin Pete:

I probably read it somewhere, but I don't know exactly where, but I don't know who exactly conjures up the evidence, but it it seems to make sense. I mean, why on earth would you what?

Aaron Brien:

What I mean, but that could be, that could be argued, right? You could just say that means killing Buffalo was in large, larger quantities, yeah, versus sporadic spot hunting after the horse, right? So you could say, like they still came about flow, yeah,

Shandin Pete:

yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because the the range of wider than prior to the horse, as far as I know,

Aaron Brien:

and what, what was the, what did they make their homes out of? The teepee. What was the teepee made out of

Shandin Pete:

the well before, I think prior to the skin tees, it was the the Tuli, the Tuli lodges.

Aaron Brien:

So you guys were Tuli people.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah,

Salisha Old Bull:

we're both planes and yeah, tow, we're both Yeah.

Shandin Pete:

So when the buffalo became more prominent, and was the skin teepees, because they're easier to transport than a bundle of Tulis, because they just bust up you're trying to travel around, I would imagine, I would imagine. But I think you know that you don't know that. I mean, so from my experience, the things that I've read and know things that I've been told. That's what I know. But yeah, I can't cite a body of evidence, or scholars, you

Aaron Brien:

guys have an origin story for the buffalo, like when the buffalo came to your people? No, have you heard one? That's the real question.

Shandin Pete:

There's, there's, there's stories where buffalo are in in stories, in creation, stories.

Aaron Brien:

Do you have ancient stories that have buffalo in them?

Shandin Pete:

I don't know if I could judge whether a story was ancient or not, except by the the actors in the story. So some stories have human actors, which seem, yeah, not, not contemporary, as in, within the last, you know, 500 years, but you know, within a range, back into, you know, the 1000s of years, I guess, I guess, I don't know.

Aaron Brien:

So you don't have them stories that are like some of your oldest known stories, uh, related to monsters and your creation and all that stuff. There's nothing in there where there's buffalo so that. So in terms of your oral history, that's that's recent, that those stories are recent. Is that what I'm hearing?

Shandin Pete:

I mean, I would guess, yeah, it seems to make sense.

Aaron Brien:

Because I would, I would argue that, okay, I would say that scientifically, it's, it's, according to the record, the the flatheads have been in the planes for a long time. Right, right? A long time. There's like two major migrations to the plains and then back to the plateau and then to the planes again, yeah, just based on, on the record that that yeah, there's, there's ample scientific evidence showing that the flatheads harvested buffalo well before the horse, yeah, and it would almost be impossible for the Salish people to be planes people and not be primarily dependent on the buffalo, even before the horse. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

yeah. So those that did reside east of the Rockies probably were having, yeah. Do

Aaron Brien:

you think it's also possible that, like, there's say there's three or four major groups of the bitter Salish. We're just talking about them like there's there's these sub bands, and that they live throughout different regions of of the plateau and the plains, yeah. But over time, their stories become molded into one thing. So that also means that certain groups of those bitter Salish, their narratives are going to kind of dominate. So like, let's just say, Yeah, this is all fake, right, but let's just say you had a group of Salish people that lived on the Yellowstone, right, yeah. Then you had a group of people that lived in the centennial valley down by Dylan. Then you had one that lived in Hayden lake. I. Ho, okay, they're all the culturally. The same group of people speak the same language, and there's a lot of interaction between them. Now, once they're placed on the reservation, their oral histories start to come together. Do you think that it's possible for one of those groups to become the dominant group? Then that means their stories become the narratives

Shandin Pete:

for all groups. Oh, yeah, yeah. Of course, of course. We were just talking about an example of this. Well, silicia was, was looking up a story about the teepee from the from the crows, and I told her, I said, Oh, that must been adopted from someone, because prior to coming to the Montana area. You all lived in the the earth lodges, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

yeah, yeah. They're Yeah, generally Yes, you're right, yeah.

Shandin Pete:

So then that story must have been something similar to what you're just talking about. It was, it was, you know became, became the crow. Story from somewhere else, someone who did use the, I would

Aaron Brien:

actually say it's the story is crow. The main feature of the story is not, right, the teepee. So the story of white owl and yellow leggings being given the teepee is really the story of the origin of the earth Lodge. Okay, so when we come here, we primarily adopt the teepee because there was a form of the teepee that existed among the Hirata and the crow as kind of a temporary home on large but, yeah, like a form of wiki, but it was like a it was like a TV, yeah? So that story is then applied to a new item, as opposed to what you're saying, which is the almost the opposite, where the story is adopted. The item remains the same, but the story, oh, yeah, adopted. Okay, that is the case with some things, though. Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, that's the case. Yeah, yeah. So my, my question is, is, when in my time at flathead I would notice that there was, like, a, there was a division in the cultural perspective of the planes, right? There was certain Salish people that would say we're not plains people, to the point where they almost rejected emphatically all things that represented the planes, like the pipe, even the horse. I heard comments made about the horse. Yeah, I heard this comment. In fact, this was a old story from Johnny early where he said museum was going to give back some pipes that belong to the Salish and and some of the people, they were saying, well, we don't want them because we're not pipe people, yeah, which is, we all know that's wrong, right? Yeah, we but so then there's another group of Salish people, where the they're they still seem to have a affinity with the planes, like, that's their place, yeah? The sun and Smith River, the mussel shell country and all. Yeah, right, yeah. So it makes me wonder if both are true. Both are true because of what I was trying to get at, like, maybe there's these groups are they were culturally the same, yeah, and then as they get pushed and forced into small, confined areas, there's also cultural politics.

Salisha Old Bull:

Ah, what? Not again? You get kicked out again. Yes, oh, I was just formulating a response, okay, yeah, I can't. I gotta hear the rest of his question, yeah, what was wrong with this device? I forgot somebody's

Shandin Pete:

playing a little bit too much candy crush. Somebody's got, got the pretty good YouTube streaming, probably that 15 minute YouTube that takes a bit of more buffering time. Maybe somebody's, uh, decided to download some photos from their photo bucket account. Maybe somebody's copy and pasting from Google, some recipes, or maybe, maybe it got a someone at just got sent a funny tick tock in their messenger. They open it up and they're watching it, on top of maybe some maybe your kids, maybe they got their Wi Fi calling on, and they're took a phone call talking to their their bestie about the tea at school. That's sucking up all your Wi Fi? Well, maybe, just maybe, Uncle Rico is parked out in the garage. Pull up in the driveway. He knows your password. He's talking to his honey through the Facebook talk, or whatever that is, Facebook talk. Yeah, he's got his Facebook call to his honey over in us. Maybe he's got two honey. Maybe he's got one on hold, another one he's talking to another one's from us, and they're both kind of having a chat, video chat, even video chat, that takes a lot of Wi Fi and, uh, that's just kind of sucking up all your Wi Fi. Maybe you got some neighbors that kind of tapped in, hacked your system. That could happen, you know, you got a real easy password, you know, 12345, or your address, whatever that is, they're just, they got on it, and they're just, they're going to town in their Netflix. I don't know what he said. He said he didn't know. I got kicked out. Oh, actually, I kicked him out. I was getting sick of him both times I kicked him out. Like this guy talks too much.

Aaron Brien:

Did you kick me out?

Shandin Pete:

No, I didn't kick Okay,

Salisha Old Bull:

there was no group. There was groups. And then what?

Aaron Brien:

Well, just, you know, then they get onto the reservation, or whatever it is, and they become the political, the cultural. Cultural politics drives them to be the largest group. So they that doesn't mean large in population, but large in like the way they view the world. So their stories become, they become that. I heard a theory long time ago from I can't remember who it was. But when I first moved to flathead and there was a story about a monster, and in some of them groups, they actually said that that story happened out kind of on the near the Yellowstone River by Livingston, or something I can't remember. But then there was people who say, No, it happened on the reservation. But that would to me. Now that makes sense. Why that would be, you know, yeah,

Salisha Old Bull:

it could be, it could be that, but, um, the groups like they really are not the same, um, because the ponderes were a lot more plateau than the Salish, because the Salish were the ones that had the bands that went out toward muscle shell, or they went out there for things. I don't know how long they stayed out there, but for seasons or whatever. And then the ponderes were the other way. There's two bands of them for sure. Like, I don't know historic, I don't know like, anciently or historically, but I know ours was the lower, the upper, there's the lower and the upper, and then we have dialects. But our dialect is even similar to the okanagans all the way up in Canada. So somewhere in there, there was some offshoot. And so I think, Well, I think, like part of it too. It's like the melding of the stories, like, definitely affected by the church coming. Because, you know, when the church came, it came before church came to us, before it went to a lot of people. And you know, that definitely had a huge effect. But then also the the area where we're at, that's where the ponderes were mainly at, you know, and then we were lower. We were staying lower, you know, below Missoula. So whatever happened, whatever happened politically, I would say more the politics is what kind of changed all of that, because, and when it came to the whole land grab and allotment and stuff like that, like that, really affected everything. Well, I'm

Aaron Brien:

talking specifically about cultural politics, like tribes, cultural politics, certain groups being the authorities and pushing out old narratives. Are different narratives and certain narratives becoming dominant. You know that's it's because that can happen without, without even the reservation, or without even the church, or with. Out. It's just, I think it's just people in power and whatever that power happened, yeah, so my thought was just simply, like, maybe there was a group that was primary, late buffalo people for a very long time, but because they weren't the cult, politically cultural, powerful group, yeah, when? When those over time, their narratives be kind of pushed to the bottom, so then it makes them appear to be like a seasonal people, like, oh, they just went out there once in a while, and then they came back. Or, yeah, or really, well, that's just where they lived. Yeah, yes, just there, you know?

Salisha Old Bull:

Yeah, no. So that's,

Aaron Brien:

do you think that people in your in your communities, talk about that stuff, or does it it because the feeling I get not to sound negative, but is that they don't look at culture that way. They look at it very like linear and very when the way they create curriculum to teach culture, it's like there's official versions of things, and I think that can be real dangerous. That is,

Shandin Pete:

it is to like worldview. I think it gives people an opportunity to really push back on on understanding the past this, if you think you already got it officially sanctioned, then what's, what's the point? I even trying to understand more. It's like, Well, we already know so Exactly, yeah, so, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

it's already there. It's all there. Yeah, it's just all there, right? You know, we don't have to explore anything else or examine anything else, yeah? And really, we got it figured out. I think, I think that the preservationist on the Flathead Reservation are just now getting to that point. They're just now getting to the early stages of questioning. Yeah, things like that. Yeah, dissecting problems and dissecting narratives. Yeah, yeah, trying

Shandin Pete:

to break the mold of the past. I just went through my master list of our sort of creation stories that I've been putting together over, I don't know how many decades, and I found three stories about the Buffalo and get this two stories about whales out of the I don't know, 100 or so that I have, all right, okay, well, let's Yeah, so that's it's interesting because it, I don't know it points to this. And I doubt this is what I doubt in what you're saying. I doubt there was a dominant group going around policing creation stories. Oh no, you're talking about, don't talk about whales, talk about buffer. But there was where there were the dominant ones. I don't, I don't, how, why? I mean, that seems strange. That's what culture committees do. No, I'm talking about the past. Dude.

Aaron Brien:

No, I'm not saying so. I'm not saying that they policed people. I'm saying that. So go back to this luck thing. Let's go back to this luck thing. Okay, okay, bear with me. Bearing with there's a certain group people that seem to be producing lucky and fortunate people, right? That means those people are going to be used for things and ceremony things and name giving things. So let's just say there's a certain group of people that for whatever era, yeah, they they seem to be producing these people. That also means when, when a young warrior wants to pursue his career and his warrior career, he's going to get a key person to guide him, or to maybe even use their sacred powers or whatever. So those people, yeah, their advice and whatever they're telling the young, this young warrior, yeah, it's going to be from your thing. So if you start to look at your oral histories, you'll find that they're rooted in the same people. Like you'll go to like, oh, this story comes from so and so. This story comes from so and so. Now, why did those stories survive? As opposed to Joe Schmo story? Because people were using that person. People were finding credibility in that person, and people were finding cultural value in that person, yeah, now that person can be part of a bigger group, and there's several people in that group that are seen that way. And then pretty soon, that group's thing becomes that. Now they're not walking around saying, your story is horrible. We're not gonna it's just, what are they being used for? Yeah, so like, for example, there was a time where the sword Clan of the crows was producing a lot of leaders. There was a lot of like, chiefs and headman and prestigious lawyers coming from the sword P. People, yeah, that doesn't mean they're out there bullying everybody to be in the forefront. It's just, it's just kind of happened, yeah? So that also means, like, Chief plenty, because there was a book wrote about him, right? Yeah, well, he's a sore lip, pretty shield. There's a book about her. She's a sore lip. Okay, right? Yeah, yeah, that means those two stories are sore lip people. So that becomes their stories are the most talked about male and female version of crow. Individuality to today is honeycum, pretty shield. Now the pretty shield story is going to become this spokes story, spokesman story for all crow women, when that's not the case in reality, but it becomes that, because it's the crow of crow female narrative, right? Well, her stories become known. So whenever we're talking about women, and then in the northern plains, pretty shield gets brought up. It doesn't mean she put herself there or she pushed somebody out, but because her story is prominent, right? Yeah. So that's, that's my idea, that just because, like, say there's two stories of wells, that can mean a lot of things. Yeah, it could also just mean there's two instances so they remembered them. It'll call also mean that there was 1000s of well stories, but nobody cared about the well guy. Yeah. So, so those two stories survived, yeah? So that's my question. Is, when I talk about the planes with flathead people or Salish people in the Buffalo there's this weird thing that happens where it's like, wow, we're not really that. We're not really this. We're kind of that. And then some people are like, all about it. We're totally plains people. So my question, my my thought, was like, Why do some of those versions get pushed out? Some get pushed to the forefront? And we've had this conversation now where there's a lot of Salish people wearing basket hats and and going on canoe journey. I know what I mean, the basket

Salisha Old Bull:

Yeah, well, some of that was, I remember listening to the episode, and I was getting after Sean doing some of that stuff was a part of of who we were because now it's like we're so inner mix. That's the other thing too. Is we're so intermixed between pondering and Salish, like, you know, that that's, that's a whole thing, you know? And but because we were like that, like we have, we have lots of stories like, about our life being plateau, you know, and and just because those things are pretty much gone, like in terms of the women who were always practicing that somehow, you know, like beating or whatever, like weaving, somehow that thing never made it. And so then you have, like, a few people who know that their great grandmas did it or whatever. And then there's, there are still pictures like they made it, like some people made it to the point, like, where the camera was here, and they had these weavings, but then it just never made it, just never carried on. And a lot of those things we traded for, you know, and so it was there. It just wasn't something that was like the strong thing. And so then it went away. So then it's gone, you know. So then you have people who try to do it, but it's all awkward now. It's like, in that awkward stage, one of those awkward things, like, because there's so many people that don't know anything about it, like, even when they try to do it, it's real strange. It's like, oh, that's not us. Or, you know, somebody would think that's not, that's not who we are. But mainly it's because that's pretty much something that kind of, like, just dissipated off of of what we were before, you know, but that's the same as, like, when people will say we weren't horsemen, like, I've heard that before, like, we weren't home, like, what? That's not true. Like, that's definitely not true. Like, we were really good horsemen, like we had, we have stories like, of when the, I don't know, whoever does the Pony Express would come up and get horses from us, so I don't know, like, some of that stuff just went away, but that that was out of our control, you know. But now it's like all the all the inner marriage and all the cultural melding, like when, when you have somebody trying to go back, trying to get that guidance, and then you're you have somebody who's taken that authority upon themselves to be the cultural bearer, or whatever, maybe they are more pondering. Or maybe they are more Salish or whatever, and then they end up, you know, telling what they know, but, and then that's what, that's what gets carried on, you know. And then, just like you're saying, just because that's who kind of got appointed to do that job, you know. And And nowadays, you know, it feels like just to do that, sort of like you gotta get paid to do that. You literally have a w4 for that.

Aaron Brien:

Well, I ain't even gonna do it.

Shandin Pete:

I cultural propagation, that's hard work. I really need to be compensated for that with benefits offer

Aaron Brien:

match my current rates. Anyway. That was just a thought. It was just a side thing, because there's like things that, when I lived there that I kind of always went, went home and questioned, but I had no right. I still don't, but it's just curious curiosity, because

Shandin Pete:

it's it's interesting, because the same thing happens as we imagine happened in the past. I think this is there's, there's a dominant group that prescribes to a certain thing, and that dominant group happens to be whatever is sort of sanctioned by the current tribal government, I guess so they set the standard for those who want to know and for those who need to know.

Aaron Brien:

And that doesn't necessarily mean that their intentions are all negative. So for example, culture committees, culture committees there, there is proof that there's some negativity that comes out of those endeavors. But the intention was to preserve as much as we can and to also make things like accessible, but but in doing that, things are edited, meaning like, like, yeah. For example, there's like, two or three versions of the crow creation story, but yeah. And by no fault of the culture committee, they kind of prescribed to one, yeah, I subscribe. I can't remember what the word is, but yeah. And so that became the official crow creation story. Yeah? It also meant that these other ones kind of got pushed to the side, just as a result of that,

Salisha Old Bull:

yeah, became it became redundant, right? Pretending

Aaron Brien:

that was my that was just like, I'm just kind of thinking about that and the buffalo. If English people do know that about their presence on the plains, and won't say planes that's really loose, because I don't really consider the Northern Rockies and the Yellowstone ecosystem part of the plains, and the way that is really designated, you know, because I would not consider pro people up here planes people. We're not, I think we're an in between, much like the black feet, much like the Shoshone and like the better route Salish, you know, we're probably more alike in those groups. Oh yeah, we are with, like, Omaha. Who are people? Omaha, Omaha, in the Ponca.

Shandin Pete:

It would be who views anyway we say their names correctly. Otherwise they may. They would medicine to speak to you.

Aaron Brien:

It would prove us to probably stop now because they're going on. How long has this been going? I don't know. How long we've been recording. I don't know. Yeah, we talked. We talked for 45 minutes about, yeah,

Shandin Pete:

you know, there's, there's a whole new and this is, you've seen it, the whole, whole nother pride in, in the in the other Salish group that lives on the Flathead Reservation that started seemed like within the last couple decades.

Aaron Brien:

Uh, yeah, I could even, I could I witnessed it, yeah, when I, when I first moved there, that that wasn't the case. And then, no it, when it started showing up, it came strong, yeah. And actually, that's, and I'm not saying that's negative or positive, but just the idea that putting themselves in the forefront, you're talking about, the pondering, yeah, yeah. To me, I noticed it when the late Pat Pierre became more of a cultural fear. And I really, I got along with, here I go and sweat with him. And like, I learned a lot from him so but once he became he became a cultural figure through the language school, and it seemed like with him. And of course, he's not the only one, right? Sure, but

Shandin Pete:

sure again, but I think that's

Aaron Brien:

the forefront represents. Yeah, you know. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

that's, that's just a sign of that. What the hell was I going to say? And I already forgot that's sort of a sign of that, that, that idea that, you know, things, things are malleable, not so safe and stone. And I would hope that young people listening to this would would take that whole idea that, yeah, you can look at Salish and then and you can see, okay, well, yeah, there's two different Salish groups there, and we can promote a certain level of independence culturally from one of the other groups. That, even though that was sort of, there's a healthy way to do that, yeah, even though that was sort of ingrained a bit, and even in, even in tribal government paraphernalia, if you will. But yeah, you had, then you have to inspect all the creation stories and say, Well, what are these? Where are these come from? And how did we sort through them? And are they even intact? What, what? There's more to learn there. They're not set in stone. Yeah?

Aaron Brien:

And I think could be fun. I think that somebody would have a lot on doing that learning, yeah, stuff, it would be pretty cool. And I don't think, I think it's coming, and it's in its early stages, but, yeah, it'll be fun to see Salish scholars start to question those boundaries, yeah, yeah, you could say that there, there, there is a legitimate resurgence of Salish and pondering world view and participation. Yeah, so, so maybe it's in a healthier state now to start looking and examining those things, dude, yeah, kind of cool to see. You know,

Shandin Pete:

yes, we shouldn't let culture become prefunctory or ossified in its current state.

Aaron Brien:

Prefunctory, no. That means

Shandin Pete:

meet your hat goes sideways. That's enough, man, it's enough. Okay, quit it. Quit it. I think

Aaron Brien:

we say Lucius, we need to have salisha more on the pod. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

you round us out a bit,

Salisha Old Bull:

I think so, kind of like a bean bag, right?

Shandin Pete:

Kind of like a bean bag, like you got it in a corner, looks cool and comfy, sit down at every other and then, but then it gets kind of hot, so you gotta get up. No, I'm the guy on the

Salisha Old Bull:

couch. Am I the guy in the couch?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, so it's just the guy on the couch. Yeah. And every once in a while, we'll be like, right, Salish, you guys are idiots. I can't I'm having this problem say, and hopefully you can help me with this. I'm having a problem getting Shaun Dean to argue with me. I want him to argue with me more. He's

Salisha Old Bull:

not gonna argue with you. He won't do it. I'm like, Come

Aaron Brien:

on, dude. Like, I need some we need some heat on the pod.

Salisha Old Bull:

Well, I don't know are we talking about Thanksgiving.

Aaron Brien:

We had to

Shandin Pete:

figure out a topic that we disagree on, then that's Oh,

Salisha Old Bull:

yeah, yeah. I don't think you guys disagree on much. Let's think

Shandin Pete:

of something we disagree on. It'll be our final episode.

Salisha Old Bull:

You should have a formal you should have a formal debate, and then then debrief. There you go. That

Aaron Brien:

means that we would have to find a topic where I'm on the opposing and our problem is that most of the time I I'm in agreement with Shaun Dean, I think more so than

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, yeah. But so we need

Aaron Brien:

recently, though, I asked him, I said, we need to get this lady on the podcast who I sent you that YouTube link. I can't remember her name, but I want her on the podcast, and you're like, I don't know, because I want to argue with her, and I think she'd be up for it.

Salisha Old Bull:

How would you do it? How would you do it, though it would be so hard. Oh,

Aaron Brien:

it flat propeller, like, I oppose what you say, but we're looking to have you on the podcast to have an intellectual conversation. Oh, okay, but I'm also, I also have a lot of respect for people who are staunch in their beliefs, like she, she went on record to see what she said.

Shandin Pete:

My stakes are getting staunch. When somebody says staunch anyway, staunch Anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry, cut you off anyway.

Aaron Brien:

I just, I just think it's cool that she was willing to come out. I can say all that stuff. Yeah, you show the video, send the link to to say Alicia, because, okay, I think respect for people who have. Stance,

Shandin Pete:

sure, even if it's cuckoo,

Aaron Brien:

right? Yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah,

Shandin Pete:

my feet are getting staunch.

Aaron Brien:

Well, that's assuming. I think there's a lot of people that think I'm cuckoo, so, yeah, okay, and I don't. Let's get Aaron,

Shandin Pete:

yeah, let's get some cuckoo people. And it's more, yeah, that's what I want. You want to get you agree with, okay, yeah, I got a cuckoo for Coco. I got some cuckoo guests. Then, oh

Salisha Old Bull:

my God. All right, okay,

Shandin Pete:

let's do it. Yeah, let's get the cuckoo. Let's get crazy going fix it up. All right, you want to go there, let's do it. You want to go there, let's do it. Guys

Salisha Old Bull:

might you guys might have to have some introductions and land acknowledgements. You

People on this episode

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Aaron Brien

Host
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Shandin Pete

Host