Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast
Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast tackle real issues related to research by Tribal people in their communities. The show is hosted by Dr. Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné) and Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke). Dr. Pete is from the Flathead Indian Reservation in Arlee, Montana. He completed a M.S. in Geology and an Ed.D. in Curriculum and Instruction at the University of Montana. Brien resides in Hardin, MT and the Crow Indian Reservation. He completed his M.A. in Anthropology at the University of Montana. The show includes discussions on matters important in Indian Country, including reclaiming research traditions, highlighting Tribal values and bringing to the forefront issue and current state of affairs in Tribal communities. We aim to uncover the meaning of research methodological approaches that are currently operating in Tribal lifeways with implication for Tribal communities and avenues for knowledge production.
Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast
#55 - O.G. Powwow Boy Band: Evolution of a Contemporary Powwow Singing Group - Guest James "Bud" Day
Powwow Music Evolution and Stories - 00:12:03
Discussion on Traditional Singing Fundamentals - 00:21:48
Evolution of Contemporary Powwow Singing Styles - 00:27:51
More on the Evolution of Contemporary Powwow Singing - 00:36:09
TBZ Evolution - 00:52:04
Powwow Singing Critique and Memories - 01:02:43
Music & Culture - 01:09:19
Influential Singers and Song Making - 01:15:40
Songwriting and Musical Influence - 01:25:54
Song Origins and Influences - 01:30:19
Memorable Songs and Powwow Contests - 01:40:56
The Impact of Powwow Singing Culture - 01:49:47
Song Memory - 02:03:26
Song from this episode (Link to YouTube)
Blackstone Singers at G.O.N.
Northern Cree-Schemitzun 95'
Eyabay-Schemitzun 94'(2)
StarBlanket Jrs - Kehew 11
THE BOYZ @ SHAKOPEE POW WOW 2018
The Boyz SNL @ Muckleshoot Vets 2019
Guest: James "Bud" Day (Bois Forte band of Ojibwe)
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2024, May 28). #55 - O.G. Powwow Boy Band: Evolution of a Contemporary Powwow Singing Group - Guest James "Bud" Day [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://www.buzzsprout.com/953152/15136464
How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast]. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxb
Twitter: @tribalresearchspecialist
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialist
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179Q
Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com
What if he says why quit listening to the podcast after we visited in Santa Fe?
Shandin Pete:I realized who was behind it.
Aaron Brien:I think sometimes, if people meet us, oh yeah, they're like well, they're just regular Indian dudes.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I get a little embarrassed Like, oh really you listen? No, I don't. Embarrassed like, ah really you listen? No, I don't.
Aaron Brien:I don't think I act any different than I do on these conversations no, I feel like the way we talk is the way we've always talked. Yeah, yeah, since I can remember, I mean, obviously we're a little smarter, are we though? Well, what I would like to think so when I was 18, oh, yeah, you met me when I was 18 or 19 oh, yeah, we are, yeah.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I can vouch that, yeah, got a little bit more experience, more scars more scars humbled in many different ways. Oh man, the list goes on. More debt, yeah, more debt, more responsibility student loan debt's gonna kick in now.
Shandin Pete:Oh yeah, what's iconic when I hear some of these old tunes? This brings me right back to heading to the powwow and everybody kind of crammed in a car. You got a loaf of bread and inside that loaf of bread is the bologna that's going to be used to make the sandwich. It's all stuffed in one, you know yeah, yeah, oh yeah and there was no water bottles.
Shandin Pete:There was no water bottles. You took an old milk jug, you rinsed the heck out of it and you filled that with water. Everybody drank out of it and do you remember?
Aaron Brien:do you remember? Sometimes they didn't rinse it out, quite good so like it was it kind of had like a thing to it yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Shandin Pete:I remember one time that reminds me of this time, kind of a similar story. You know, when you go to school, you're usually poor enough to be on a hot lunch program, right, you probably remember that Hot lunch program. I didn't even know there was a program. You just know that you get fed when you went to school.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, so my thing is, I didn't learn about like paid lunch or half, there was even half yeah, I think I was well into high school.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, anyway, yeah, so yeah. But you know, when I was a kid, I'd seen all these um, well-to-do kids bringing lunch in the lunchbox and I thought I want to, I want a lunchbox. You know, I kind of got a little jealous, I don't remember, I must have been pretty young. So I went home and I told my mom. I said hey, mom, I want a lunchbox. And she's like ah, what? No, don't they feed you lunch, and whatever. Yeah, but I just want to try it out. So you know where we went to get a lunchbox. You go to the secondhand store, you don't?
Shandin Pete:get, oh yeah yeah, you don't get a nice new lunchbox from kmart. Or yeah, kmart, yeah would be. Yeah, no, you don't get a nice lunchbox you get. You go to the grocery store or not grocery store. You go to the secondhand store and you buy, you know, an old uncle lunch box. It's kind of ugly and beat up the in ones yeah, yeah.
Shandin Pete:So we get that lunch box. We didn't go to town just for that. But you know, get lunch box and you get home and I'm getting ready. I'm like I'm pretty excited about this lunch I get to take, take to school and and I said, well, mom, I don't have a um, I don't have a container for my, my drink or anything. All the other kids got a little cup, you know, with the screw top that they can drink.
Shandin Pete:She says, okay, well, let's see what we can do. So she digs around and in the cupboard and pulls out an old peanut butter jar, starts to rinse the peanut butter jar out, not wash it, rinse it out, give it a good rinse. You know you don't use a rag, you just use your hand and you just you get. You do the best you can. She rinses that peanut butter jar out and fills it with um water, not juice, not tang or kool-aid water. So I go to school with my poor man like a construction worker's lunchbox. There's no action figures on it, there's some paint on it, maybe from somebody's drywall job or something mud, some uh drywall mud yes, drywall mud, and I open up my uh box and eat the sandwich and take a drink of my water.
Shandin Pete:Tastes like straight peanut butter, straight peanut butter water, nasty, that's a core memory, man, yeah, peanut butter, and me, from that time, not too fond of peanut butter alone. I can eat peanut butter with things, but not alone.
Shandin Pete:Needless to say, peanut butter alone is depressing.
Shandin Pete:That's a depressing story. Needless to say, I never wanted to bring a lunchbox to school. I was pretty proud of my free lunches after that.
Aaron Brien:You know, I didn't mind the free lunches back then, but also I don't know if I knew any better. I know yeah, you know thinking of it right now. I do remember them putting pickles in bowls in the table, so like we go to the lunch tables yeah instead of eat, and the pickles would be in bowls in the middle of the table yeah and I looking back now like kids used to just run there.
Aaron Brien:You know like a hundred kids like reaching in there, like grabbing pickles picking their nose and scratching in places and then, yeah, dipping the finger yeah that's pretty gross, man.
Shandin Pete:That's disgusting. All right, we're ready, what's up partner?
Bud Day:Muju, how y'all doing. All right, yeah, doing good, we're talking about student debt, oh nice. Luckily, I don't have too much of that. Oh man, you're lucky. Wasn't too good of a student. Didn't get a chance to collect any debt yeah Right, no, I only went to tribes. Didn't get a chance to collect any debt yeah Right, no, I only went to tribes. And so I was so tribe. My tribe took care of the majority of that, and so that's what happens when you just go play basketball somewhere.
Shandin Pete:And that's it. Yeah, I got pretty smart that I thought I was going to. Well, I'm going to get a small loan, you know, and get a TV, maybe some new furniture, not very educational for educational purposes. I'll pay it off right away. It won't take long. 20 years later.
Aaron Brien:They used to kind of sell you on the difference between subsidized and unsubsidized loans. Oh yeah, so then, in your mind you're like I'll take the one that gives you more money. Yeah, oh, yeah, and you're broke, then you deal with it the rest of your life yeah, yeah, where's that furniture? At nowhere they seem fake.
Shandin Pete:They seem like fake loans I know I never knew I really had to pay him back wait, you actually want that money back wait a minute. I don't think it really said that in that thing I signed. Yeah, I'd like to look back at that.
Bud Day:Wait, I thought this was. I thought this was like a grant yeah, yeah he said it was a grant.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah, you said it was a grant. There were those, though. You remember that at least back in my day there was one or two, that was like a, like a grant. Yeah, those are nice yeah pell grant well, pell grant was one of them, but there was another one sort of like a loan, like a loan, I can't remember what it was called.
Aaron Brien:Presidential grant or presidential loan or whatever it was called.
Shandin Pete:Something like that. I don't know, it's pretty nice, I don't know.
Aaron Brien:I'm done eating.
Shandin Pete:You're done eating. Okay, what are you eating now?
Aaron Brien:These, were watermelon candies, mountain Dew, mountain Dew and watermelon candy.
Shandin Pete:Okay what are you eating now?
Aaron Brien:These are watermelon candies, mountain Dew, mountain Dew and watermelon candy. Oh man.
Bud Day:That looks like a college meal right there. I know what are you trying to do.
Shandin Pete:I know how to party Reminiscing, and I got Hawaiian rolls.
Aaron Brien:You're going to be doing a diabetes walk soon. Man, I was never even aware of diabetes.
Shandin Pete:No, there was plenty of chances to be aware.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, diabetes awareness walk.
Shandin Pete:Any Frisbee that you got in your house says something about diabetes. Okay, all right. Focus, all right.
Aaron Brien:Focus All right, if it isn't Gatherer Nation's Frisbee, it's a diabetes.
Shandin Pete:Frisbee, yeah, diabetes awareness Diabetes awareness bumper sticker.
Aaron Brien:Diabetes awareness walk 5K 5K walk.
Bud Day:No, it's not even 3K. 3k, 3k.
Aaron Brien:Bike race and fun walk. Yeah, man.
Shandin Pete:It's a bumper sticker and it's on your dresser. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man Cool. All right, man man, I'm glad you could join us. We've been trying to get it together for a little while. You know how things go. It gets kind of tough to schedule.
Aaron Brien:Aaron is tough, I didn't know about it.
Shandin Pete:You didn't know about it. It's behind-the-scenes stuff, man. It's a need to know.
Aaron Brien:But I didn't know, bud, I didn't know at all. He told me he mentioned he talked to you at Phoenix. No, santa Fe, santa Fe. He said we should put him on the podcast. I think he wants to be on the podcast. Let's put him on the podcast. That was like a year ago, man.
Bud Day:Almost a year August, august, august.
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Bud Day:I've been waiting for, you know, probably about every two nights before I go to bed, just kind of waiting for the text. Yeah, we're on. No, I guess not.
Aaron Brien:If Shandiin calls, answer my phone. Set a special ring just for his name, it's our theme song. I actually never even heard our theme song until when July August. I never listened to our podcast ever, not one time until this year and we need those stats man, we need you to listen.
Aaron Brien:I know my bad, but I don't know if you know, but we met quite a long time ago but we actually probably met maybe a couple of times, because I knew Merv. Me and Merv have been buddies for a long time. Yeah, yeah. And then what was it? Probably like Kiaiai opawa, like 20 years ago or something it was probably at fun rookers after the powwow well I think one of no one was at a park.
Aaron Brien:We, we were in a park in missoula for a birthday party or something and you guys were there like kwana, you, merve, mervert, um, I guess we can't say that on here. Huh, we already did. I've never stopped, never stopped, but anyway, yeah everybody knows his nickname yeah, yeah, so so, yeah. So welcome to the podcast and thanks for listening to us. I guess I don't know yeah, no, my, my, uh.
Bud Day:Actually my wife kind of got me into it. You know we drive, travel a lot, you know, and kind of listening to different different stuff. I guess you know we kind of started off podcast with like Sasquatch Chronicles and stuff like that and then kind of just started hearing like you know, hey, there's, you know, there's these native podcasts, these Indians on there. So we kind of just started checking them all out and you know, yeah, she kind of got me on to you guys and just been listening and checking it out, cracking up when I'm supposed to be sleeping while she's driving. I'm supposed to be sleeping and just laughing away, but yeah. So, yeah, I always enjoy listening to you guys and you know I kind of like the way the conversation flows. So I was telling Shandeen that you know it was like man, it was just cool to hear you know, especially when it comes to powwows and singing and just stuff that you don't typically hear all the time people talk about. So it's always a blast hearing you guys and different stuff.
Bud Day:We got going on and hearing even the offshoot stories. That's kind of how I talk anyways, ever see that picture? It's a meme and it says how a normal person tells a story. There's a start, middle end, and then how I tell a story. There's a start, middle end, and then then how I tell a story and it's like oh, semi-related, off offshoot story, and then all these different things and apologizing and then rushing my story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's me, that's how I tell stories, so I like it, I'm for it.
Aaron Brien:It's cool man like we don't often I don't. I think Shandeen hears it more, but I don't get to hear, like when people listen to the podcast, I mean once in a while, like there's been some pretty unique experiences. I've never thought I'd experience that, where somebody's like, hey, are you so-and-so from that, from travel research, I'm like, yeah, that's crazy man, so it's cool, I like it.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, shoot, john dean you want to say something, I can see. I mean I, I got a plan.
Shandin Pete:I got a plan um, oh, oh but you know, I, I, so we all grew up in an era, right, an era of music that you know, we hear a song and it just, it just brings us straight back. You know, and we did one episode about original singing and that you know a lot of those songs are really familiar. You know, growing up myself as a kid in in that in the mid to late 70s, you know there's a real unique style. But then as you get older, you know you get into your teens and sort of your needs change. You know, just as you get older and you're looking for something else, you know that sort of fits your needs.
Shandin Pete:And that's when this sort of at least from my experience in Montana this sort of contemporary style singing come about. And it was so unique at that time for me hearing it. And when I hear these old tunes from the late 90s, you know it just brings me right back to the good old, as everybody knows. You know, the good old powwow days, you know, and things weren't, they were different than they were now. And I wanted to talk about that because you, you're, you're part of that movement, you're, you're on the front lines of that uh, that sort of wave of contemporary music that sort of come from the midwest, you know so, here in montana, you know it sort of hit us from, from, from the north, you know, up in canada, and then from the west, from or not the west from the east well, so I'm quite a bit younger than you, sean dean okay, all right, all right.
Shandin Pete:What? What do you got then?
Aaron Brien:well, so I grew up in the time where, like blackstone to me was king, right, so blackstone was king. And then all of us, everything was creed, like everything, like all the yeah, contemporary power singing was creed. Well, all the power singing really like everything new was for us and crow was coming from from the north. Then all of a sudden man like iave comes out, right, yeah, and then we get these tapes like and it was all because my uncle jeff mcdonald in black whistle, like they were like traveling and it was all because my uncle Jeff McDonald in Black Whistle, like they were like traveling and stuff, and so they'd bring tapes back and we'd be listening to tapes.
Aaron Brien:And so that's when I first like heard that style, like that Midwest, I guess, the Minnesota thing, and after that it was over. You know, yeah, it's over, made it cool man, because like to me, like Blackstone is to me, is like on my Mount Rushmore, right, but then, but as a kid I couldn't relate to them Like, no offense. But like me and Terry Paskerman aren't the same person, you know, like we're not from the it's not I grew up with like baggy pants and like you know what I mean, like so.
Shandin Pete:So when I seen like yabe especially, and then like later, like you guys.
Aaron Brien:You know the boys. It was like whoa, that's cool man, I want to be like them later.
Bud Day:You know I'm not as cool, but I do my best all the uh, the the tapes and and CD covers all looking like rap, rap, rap covers.
Aaron Brien:Yeah. Even the names, even the names of the songs.
Bud Day:Yeah, like we thought we were cool. You know what I mean, cause, like, even when you're you're talking about that, I mean the contemporary music, starting, you know you look back on even some of those old Indian house and Canyon and different CDs or tapes. I should say starting, you know you look back and even some of those old indian house and canyon and different cds or tapes I should say you know of, like mandarin, and different ones. It says contemporary powell music on there.
Bud Day:Even still, you know, and it's like so, even just like no one really even knew what contemporary was at a time. You know, I guess, I guess for for you know, lack a better way to explain it a lot of times people would just say, oh, they're straight singing or or word word singing, you know, and then contemporary kind of didn't really come around and tell about that. Like that time you know you're talking about, and like the you know where, you know would, instead of just grass dance song, flag song, like we're like why don't we like, you know, why don't we name them, you know?
Bud Day:I mean it's like you know, I think we got us. You know, as I remember songs called like.
Shandin Pete:You know like g unit different stuff like that.
Bud Day:But, uh, yeah, we thought we were, you know, trying to held up the release because, you know, trying to figure out what song well, 11 still needs a name, you know. And then so-and-so, who made it? You know I want to call this, but you know, you know, yeah, so sometimes even held up the release of our CD because I didn't know what the name of the song, but, yeah, that's, that's, that's like you're saying, aaron, that's where I was at too. You know what I mean, because you know I'm old, but I'm not that old, but that was about around the time that know into it as well too, cause when I very first started singing, you know my older brothers, um, you know, hokie and Opie, those are, you know, those were some of my teachers.
Bud Day:We had other teachers, uncles, you know teachers, but they, you know who I learned from the most and more often, you know, was my older brothers, uh, hokie and Opie, and, and when, often, you know, was my older brothers Hokie and Opie, and when they, you know, they would go and they were kind of a little bit already, I guess, established singers at that point, you know, or getting there, you know, and kind of making a name for you know, and getting to sing with different groups, you know, and Hokie would sing with you know Stoney Park here and there and different things like that. Get the call. I guess you know. And Hokie would sing with you know Stoney Park here and there and different things like that. Get the call, I guess you know. And yeah, so you know. And so what we practiced all the time was around that time. You know, we practiced a lot of Blackstone. We practiced a lot of, you know, chinooki Lake and Pigeon Lake and even, not so much lakes right not so much like whitefish or whitefish bay very much, but they weren't like, definitely those guys
Bud Day:but like, and then, like you know, stony park, back when you know, I remember a lot of guys used to call monster park because there was a couple summers where they were just untouchable. You know, like, in, in, and that was what we grew up learning. You know, like, yeah, our older, older singers, you know, would teach us, you know, I guess the I don't want to say the basics, but the fundamentals you know about what it is to be a singer, right, like yeah and and and so that's what we kind of would get from them.
Bud Day:You know we get all the the old songs and everything, but then we were on what we kind of would get from them. You know we'd get all the old songs and everything, but then we were on our own kind of listening and practicing to. You know, some of those other bigger names you know, not that you know Porcupine and Red Lake and all those other drums, aren't you know badlands? Not that they weren't top names right, and it's like they weren't. Not that they weren't top names right, but for us, you know, like we started learning those fundamentals from. You know my uncle, jim Claremont, and different ones, different teachers we had around the cities.
Bud Day:But you know, on our own we kind of I guess started wanting to emulate some of those other groups, and so that's what we practice. You know, in the basement and in the van on the way to the pow, the powwow. You know, back in the powwow van days where you could swivel the captain chairs, oh yeah, everyone was on a cooler here and there. Yeah sang all the way to the powwow on the way home from the powwow, oh yeah, my uncle probably was like oh, can you just go to sleep, shut up, shut up, yeah, well, there's, this is.
Shandin Pete:This is one thing I wanted to have you guys listen to, because this is sort of the definition of like, sort of like when I think of contemporary, or, like you said, I like that. You said that because that brought me back to that time where we didn't call it contemporary, we said word songs. Oh, they sing word songs and that meant this other style. So listen to this and you're're gonna pick it out right away. Right away, I'm sure of it. Don't don't look at the screen, because it might reveal the, the name, okay oh, my god, you don't.
Bud Day:Don't look at the screen. Not to look at the screen.
Aaron Brien:And then yeah, you look right at it wait, am I? Am I playing the game, or is there no?
Shandin Pete:way. Yeah, you can play too. This is going to be easy one, but this is sort of the definition. Like, this is what I think about and I'm going to ask you a question about it. Are you ready? Here we go. Can you hear?
Aaron Brien:it. Yeah, you can say the drum group's name though.
Shandin Pete:Yeah well, don't look at it, don't listen. Why you gotta listen? Okay, this is classic. Well, don't look at it, don't listen, you gotta listen. Okay, this is classic. Write it out when you know it Got to have a lot of bird calls. I'm content.
Bud Day:And pterodactyl calls.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, go back to the Jurassic.
Aaron Brien:I don't know, is that I don't know.
Shandin Pete:What, what do you think this is iconic man? Well, for my generation, I should say For my generation, iconic.
Aaron Brien:No idea, no idea it's not, is it chiniki lake? No oh, I don't know. Then, man blackstone, I'm gonna.
Shandin Pete:I don't know, I don't know what you got, man, it's more than one. So this was the first song, at least, that I heard that employed that double lead with the solo. The solo, the first song that I heard that had that sort of, and this sort of was the definition. I was like, oh man, this is new. I never heard anything like this. What is this? And yet the signature, the signature, sort of slow beat, you know. Kind of that real bouncy, but heavy beat. Like iconic contemporary singing Iconic, but I'm surprised.
Aaron Brien:I don't know it. I don't know it.
Shandin Pete:I'm surprised.
Shandin Pete:Neither of you know it you guys were kind of young, you were the youngsters so Aaron took a guess.
Shandin Pete:Bud, what do you think take a guess? Well, probably out of generation and out of region, maybe. What do you think Take a guess?
Aaron Brien:Well, I thought Probably out of generation and out of region maybe.
Bud Day:Well, I thought it. You know well from what I remember, and I could be wrong, but I thought it was a, wasn't it wasn't that a song that was like was like blackstone yabe and black lodge, like they all said. I don't know, I can't remember something did something like that, but I sounds very blackstone-ish to me. You know when in with the double lead, and yeah, I remember right that's.
Shandin Pete:This song became pretty popular and you're right, a bunch of groups sang it. Whose song it is? I couldn't say. I won't speak for Blackstone. It's Blackstone. It made it onto one of their tapes. Why did you give me that? Well, I got to cast doubt. Man, I got to cast doubt.
Bud Day:I could have swore, though, that that song was like I don't know if they I can't remember who, if it was, maybe somebody they made it together. Yeah, because I remember I want to say it's something like that, but I do remember you know that was, you know, because at the time I think there was there was like solos and yeah, you know, but that one had the double lead and the solo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, and then too, you know, like around that time they were, you know, they were kind of uh, they were putting the stamp on that yeah 90s, slow, slow contempt.
Bud Day:You know not everyone could do it either.
Bud Day:You know, like not everyone could pull it out and and too, over time, the contempt singing has went through phases too where, yeah, you know, you know, back then, you know, like mandarin, you know, like I don't know, badlands, pork pine, like you listen to any of those cds or you watch any of those old granite tapes on like youtube or whatever, yeah, man, they're just like they're, they're going. You know there's this real fast pace and then, yeah, there's a time where that that super slow contempt beat went away, even for contempt groups, you know. And then, all right, you know, we, we, we tried to bring it back here and there and there. There was also a time too, probably I don't know, I'd say a couple of couple, probably four or five, six years ago. Maybe there was a time too where we, where it was regions, you know we could have, we could have a slow song that was just like fire, right, and we would sing it for saturday night live or whatever yeah somewhere in a certain region and everyone would jam to it.
Bud Day:But then we'd go to a different region, washington or somewhere, or oklahoma or somewhere, and sing that same song. And no one's dancing there was like no one's so so, so.
Bud Day:So there was a. There was a point where we're probably five, four, five, six years ago where we kind of had to just play it by ear. Where we were, you know, have a fast, fast, contempt jamming in a tribal, a slow one, you know like. I'm like 90, slow and then kind of mid-range, and just have to play it by ear. You know, see what the dancers like 90s, slow and then kind of mid-range, and just have to play it by ear, see what the dancers like. And then there's times too where we're like you know what, yeah, they might not have been dancing to so-and-so, but hopefully they're going to dance to us and we'll sing it anyways.
Bud Day:But yeah, that was that iconic 90s slow beat. And yeah, you're right, like Blackstone. You know Blackstone and Iabe were kind of some of the first ones that really you know side calls, you know they were, they were everywhere, you know, and they even had certain guys within their group that did something where you just knew they were gonna do it. You know like, I think yeah, they had one by, uh, you know, one of their, their singers. I was called like the wounded calf, I remember they called it or whatever, and it was like you know, like it was like they had all these different.
Bud Day:They had all these different, uh, side calls. You know like different ones did different. You know different, different, different screams or you know whatever you want to call them right, like you know, and everyone was different. You know, like blackstone, he was a lot of high pitch and a lot of coming from everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they had had more, more distinct ones. You know that, coming certain singers would do it and then even even a little bit later after that.
Bud Day:You know around like midnight you know, like you know, midnight you'd hear whips. You knew his first pause in that, between the first and second verse, you knew that hookah was coming right. It was just different things but yeah, they were some of the first ones that came out with a lot of energy, no matter what, the beat was right, yeah, their energy was, you could tell we didn't really have a whole lot of guys that did that when we first started and we were first kind of getting onto the scene. We, you know hokey, our lead singer, was actually one of our, one of our first kind of screamers. You know, and that's usually unheard of, you know what I mean, like the lead singer doing screams and whatnot.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, you gotta say it. It's like almost a form of.
Aaron Brien:What it's like, almost a form of branding, like you know what I mean?
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah.
Aaron Brien:It becomes so associated with that group. Like you're saying, like with Whips and midnight, like it almost feels weird if somebody else does it in another group like hokuhi is like a thing a lot of people say, but it became so recognizable that it felt like you were stealing if you heard, like if somebody you heard another group do it.
Shandin Pete:You're like what are you?
Aaron Brien:doing. Like what are you doing, dude? Like that slow beat, though man. The only other group later that I heard do that slow beat just as good, was muskwaki nation, oh yeah oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I liked it.
Bud Day:Yeah, okay, next on like a consistent basis like yeah, yeah, that was there yeah, yeah, yeah and then too, also that was their and then too also what's different we didn't talk about.
Bud Day:You know, when you talk about Muscogee Nation, what was also their staples was, you know, late Del's downbeats. You know, like you just knew that he was going to throw a triple and then a nine and then five after that. You know, I mean, it was, it was you know for for guys who weren't used to seeing that they'd be like man, what the heck you know. But then after you get used to it, like, oh, that's that's dell that's what that's, muskwaki. That's what I'm thinking. I kind of forgot that's.
Aaron Brien:Muskwaki. That's what I'm thinking of doing. I kind of forgot about Muskwaki man. I can honestly tell just now. They were one of the first groups, because to me every contempt group was like Cree or Ojibwe, right. So like those languages in a powwow song sound similar. So I remember when I first heard Muskwaki, it was like a different language. Yeah. And I was like a different language, yeah, and I was like whoa, yeah, this is weird.
Bud Day:Man like this is kind of cool, you know, I like it it's actually kind of weird too, though, when you think about it, because muskwaki, kree and uh ojibwe are are all the same language base, so it's really weird. Yeah, like like they'll you'll, you'll hear a lot of similar words, like like um, you know nimito, nimito, like nimichig, like they're all, like you know, talking about dancing, but it's all very similar, even how they say bear, like you know, in cree it's you know muskwa, and then I think it's the same. It might even be the same in muskwaki, but then in ojibwe it's makwa, so without the s, but so it's. It's weird how it sounds different in a song when you're talking about I'm not.
Bud Day:I'm not wrong, though, but muskwaki sounded different, that language no, no, for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah they had their own and and I think too, it's how how the words were put together and broke down. You know it's like a lot of the Cree words, you know a lot of the older Cree contempt songs. They were not to put it, not like it's putting it down, but they were just saying the word itself, right, like and you know, like, just like it wasn't grammatically correct, or if you will.
Shandin Pete:Well, they weren't like they were just saying it.
Bud Day:They weren't like altering it wasn't grammatically correct or, if you will, well. Well, they weren't like, they were just saying it, they weren't like altering it, a whole lot like yeah, I get what you mean like like, so, like that, like that blackstone song. They're just saying the word right, like, and a lot of muskwaki, like how they put them together and one word would be slow and then there'd be three words together real fast you know like the abe did that as well too, yeah like their cadence.
Shandin Pete:Their cadence is different yeah, it's like old school rap versus sort of the new school rap and yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah, I like that, I like that uh, let's not let's not get started let's start get started on that because the old school rap is pretty much like, if you want to think about, it's on a beat right and they rhyme on a beat well they actually use real words too, so we're starting to sound old now.
Bud Day:You guys are old heads oh yeah so you know where I where era.
Aaron Brien:I grew up in nice to me, ice cube is like one of the best. He's one of the best I'm a cube guy.
Shandin Pete:All right, let's, let's listen to this other one, because this one is iconic to me too. And then I'm going to show you a couple that aaron sent me that's iconic in his his era, so see if you guys, uh, can guess this one.
Shandin Pete:And I got a whole handful of these I don't know if we'll get to them all but this, this is from my era, so let's I like this.
Shandin Pete:This is fun I do too, man, all right, don't look at the screen, you might reveal the answer. We're not looking at the screen, all right, this comes from. This. Comes this comes to you from a pretty iconic powwow during these times. Skometzen you ready? Yep, I know you're ready. Here we go, here we go. This one might not jump out right off because it is iconic, but you'd have to be from the era, from how they sounded then. This is back when all the singers had braids too. Two braids, any guesses? Keep listening, though I'll give you a hint. They're still around, pretty popular. They don't sound like this anymore. I don't think.
Aaron Brien:Sort of but.
Shandin Pete:This is very old.
Aaron Brien:This is like very.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, any guesses? You can tell by the language, of course, where they're from, or at least their region. Which country, country, which nation, if you will. I hear this and this brings me back to the station wagon. Riding in the station wagon.
Bud Day:The wood panels.
Shandin Pete:The gallon of water, loaf of bread, man.
Shandin Pete:I don't know, you got them, powwow cookies, you know. You don't know Cathedral Lake?
Bud Day:No man I don't know, you got them. Powwow cookies, you know, you don't know. Cathedral lake no vineagle, no wild wild horse kind of in the right region.
Aaron Brien:That's a good hey wild horse is a good guess yeah, yeah, remember they're here.
Shandin Pete:They're here now, today, in this day and age, and they're really popular.
Aaron Brien:Oh, that's Northern Cree.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, it's Northern Cree man. Oh, this is a totally oh yeah yeah, yeah, that's the Randy Wood days. Yeah, old school. Well, at least it was probably. There's even an older school Northern Cree than this clip.
Bud Day:But yeah, those old yeah they definitely have a different than this clip. But yeah, those old yeah they never have a different. Uh, they had a different sound back then. Yeah, you know that. Well, obviously, a lot, a lot of groups that are still around had, and have, a different sound and yeah except for, I mean, blackstone still has that sound, but their songs are different.
Bud Day:Yeah, yeah, they have. The sound is is very similar, which is kind of weird because there's um, you know, they don't have the same core, I guess. So you know, other than you know terry and a couple others, you know rocky and who not, but they they don't have. So it's it's weird that they have the same sound but their songs are different.
Shandin Pete:Same like northern cree back then, you know, like that northern cree was, you know, you know yeah, man so this is what I noticed, um, and I was gonna ask you a question about first, about that, the double lead, because I'm always, I was always curious. Well, I wonder, who start, who did the first double lead? Who, what, who do you know that thinks sort of started that phenomenon. Then I'll jump back to this northern creek question. I got who do, who do you, who do you know that sort of the origin.
Bud Day:I think it was around. Well, I think it was around the same time because, like I, like I said I, I, I thought that you and I could be wrong. But that Blackstone song, you know, I want to say singing in that song with blackstone, yeah, but I want to say I don't know who did it first, but I would say blackstone or ayabe, but I think it was around the same time. So, unless you know, unless you were with one of those groups at that time, yeah, then you know it'd be kind of difficult to say, oh yeah, well, blackstone, blackstone did it first or Iabe did it first. Well, even Black Lodge was even in there too at that time. They were doing a lot of solos and double leads and whatnot, even the long lead, you know.
Shandin Pete:Oh yeah.
Bud Day:That one, you know, the Che Mod song, oh yeah, like where that whole thing is, the lead, you know, yeah, like they were in that mix too. So I, I wouldn't know, I I wouldn't want to say, oh yeah, they did it for sure, because I think it was right around that same time. You know, around that same same time, and then you know whether it was like 89, 90, 91, somewhere around there, maybe even a little bit after that.
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that was always a debate when I was younger that I'd have with folks in my age. We'd say, oh, I, and it was always it was either Ayabe or Blackstone that came up with the shoe, started a double lead and we never really knew. They were just a bunch of little scrub kids in Montana and I didn't really know the the powwow circuit in that sort of way, but that was always. Our thighs must have been the Abbey or Black or not.
Bud Day:Black Lodge, blackstone fun fact too, though. So you know, I you know we didn't really even start with introductions or anything, so people listen to this probably like yeah.
Shandin Pete:I was gonna get to that sorry, yeah, yeah, no, I was gonna get to that after this, uh, next clip, but do it now.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, who are?
Bud Day:we talking to we're gonna go through this whole podcast without saying who I am and then people can call in and we can get no, no, so so, anywho, my name is, uh, you know, bud day. Most people know me as either butter james, you know, as I grow up, a few, uh, but anywho, I sing with the boys, uh, drum group based out of twin cities, minnesota, and get into my little fun fact, yeah, um. So we started singing in 1989 at prairie island, powell, in july. So, like that second weekend in july of prairie island in minnesota, it was our very first time setting up.
Bud Day:So this july, oh my gosh, be 35 years that we've been a group together and, uh, I was, so I sang at that very first power, but I've been, you know, remember of TBZ or the boys, ever since. Yeah, you know, and we're a contemporary group, but that we didn't sing our very first or have our first soul song that had a solo in it until last April, really, so until 2000,. Yeah, 2023. Really, yeah, in 2023. So, like 34 years we went without singing a solo, you guys missed the trend, so we pulled it out and we're singing it.
Shandin Pete:We still sing it every now and then.
Shandin Pete:He's arguing about the name.
Shandin Pete:He's arguing about the name for 30 years. Took that long, yeah about the name.
Bud Day:He's arguing about the name for 30 years took that long, yeah, no, yeah, that was we. You know like that was because you know, at that time, you know, like I said, you know that was blackstone and indiana and black lodge's thing, right. So we were like you know, we're just we'll, we're like we'll stay away from it. You know, yeah, yeah, and it took until until last year, last year, before we finally and it took. It took some coaxing too, so some of our older guys like I don't know, we don't want to really, so right, yeah, so so we, we tried it. It's a fun song still, it's. We like it, but yeah, it took 34 yeah, before we said our first one.
Aaron Brien:That's's pretty crazy. I like it.
Shandin Pete:I like it.
Aaron Brien:You missed the trend. That's pretty punk rock man we missed the train.
Bud Day:Wait for it to come back around.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, well, that's a long history. I'm always interested, as is Aaron, about the history of our singing ways and it's always good to talk to people that are knowledgeable and and you know about the current things. You know about sort of how our singing trends evolve, and so that's. I was really interested in talking with you because you mentioned you know how long you've been singing with this, this group, and how long they've been around and just the history of seeing the different changes and trends in our way of doing things. And I wanted to point out something because there was sort of a turn that I noticed in contemporary singing, at least in my generation. So those first two clips that I had you listen to really like one of the signatures. Was this really kind of high singing? You know People sing really high? I remember some kind of high singing. You know people sing really high I remember some old timers.
Shandin Pete:You know, oh, they're just screaming around. You know, they're just, they're not still, yeah, it's still that you know.
Shandin Pete:But there was a. There was a change at least in in in sort of my, my timeline of contemporary singing, and it happened when this one particular drum group came on the scene and and to me it was very unique in a couple of ways that we already mentioned, sort of that idea of you know how you said the words were just spoken, you know sort of in a in a, like these little compartments, but this group was doing it a lot different, you know they were, they were, they were breaking words up and dragging them out, and it's really unique. But it was the tone and the pitch that really did it for me. And it also brought in sort of this new wave, almost like this swagger about singing you know where. You know the style of dress sort of changed in a way. It was sort of these younger people, this new trend. Not everybody had braids, you know.
Shandin Pete:So listen to this and you'll probably know who it is right off, because it's super iconic again and sort of my little world of contemporary singing. So listen to this again, don't look, and you're going to get this one right off. I just know it. Here we go. That sounds good. That sounds good, it's the obby right?
Bud Day:It's definitely obby.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah, yeah. And when you listen to this, the thing I noted, the thing I noted when these guys first, when I first heard them, is that it wasn't really super high singing. It was a lot of bass, you know A lot of bass, and, man, that sounded really good to me. These guys aren't way up there the whole time. They've got this real deep, deep bass singing. And I have a um, I got a cousin who, um, uh, when we were young, I always sing around and he had this theory about singing and he said you know, you know what I'm gonna do. He said I'm gonna, I'm gonna really eat a lot, I'm gonna get fat, I'm gonna get fat, I get real fat, so I can sing really well because all these really good singers.
Aaron Brien:They're all fat who said that you know who said it.
Shandin Pete:That's pat, matt or tonka yeah, yeah, my little bro tonka. Yeah, that was his. He never did it. He could never get fat. He was one of those guys that could eat anything and never gain weight.
Bud Day:He had a tapeworm.
Aaron Brien:Hey man Speaking of Tonka, speaking of Tonka go ahead.
Bud Day:Oh, I was going to say I was that way for a long time, you know.
Shandin Pete:That's where all my brothers would say hey, this guy got a tapeworm.
Bud Day:That's what all my brothers say. Hey, this guy got a tapeworm.
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Bud Day:I've accomplished my feat.
Shandin Pete:Do you?
Bud Day:sing better. I have increased volume, you're high-bass.
Aaron Brien:You got that Junior Merrick high-bass.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Bud Day:I mean he's not wrong in a sense, though, because man some, some big guy is just like yeah but I think, I think it's a different practice too, you know, I mean like um, how, how you learn how to sing, you know, depending on from from which era, where your teachers were from yeah um, you, you like, you know, just gonna call it out like you can tell guys who learned from watching youtube or or, or, just you know, from from a recording, than guys who were sat down and and taught, you know, um, taught by, by actual singers and not not.
Bud Day:That either way is right or wrong. You know, because you, you know, as a singer, not everyone's privileged, not everyone has the same, yeah, same, uh, you know, raised in the same area or or with, you know, with families that sing, or have you know singers around right, so you kind of, if you want to learn to sing, you're going to learn. However, which way you can, yeah, but a lot of those, a lot of those older guys, you, you know, I was always taught that. You know sing from your diaphragm, you know sing from your stomach. You know, and you tell guys who do it and who don't.
Bud Day:You know, it's just it's really weird. You know, like you can tell a guy and then you could tell guys who just practice just just to lead. You know what I mean. You know you get them. You know you get them like 30, you know you get them. You know you get them like they're. You know with the group and everything and man just like awesome, crisp, lead or whatever. But then you ask them to sing for a hoop dancer or something with a hand drum and it's something crazy, because they can't sing a whole song. Yeah, yeah, no, but it's true, though the big guys do have a lot of volume yeah they're loud
Shandin Pete:they are loud.
Shandin Pete:They're loud and deep, so this was this was.
Shandin Pete:I was gonna would kind of cut in about, about your history, because this was, this was what I had thought when I was, when I was growing up as a kid, you know. We seen ayabe come in on a scene. They come from the east and they brought this new sound. And then then we heard I start hearing the boys and I thought, for some reason because I seen some of the singers from ayabe singing with the boys or or vice versa and I thought, oh, there must have been a or vice right yeah, there must have been a breakup in ayabe and a bunch of them went over to the boy.
Shandin Pete:That's just what we had thought kind of an urban legend in montana was there was a split oh it it was, it was I remember like, yeah, people had their own, we filled in the gaps.
Shandin Pete:So in our minds Iave, and the boys were the same drum group yeah, and it was like what what the heck's going on?
Aaron Brien:so we, we had drama for you guys.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, we created it so you can set the story straight for us. Now Was there drama? Okay, if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine. No, no, no.
Bud Day:So, yeah, they were older, they were older guys, right, like for the most part, you know, and they started around the same time, like you know, like I can't say for certain, but around that time, you know, like I I can't say for certain, but around that time you know, 19, late, late 80s, you know 89, you know, around there, from what I gather, you know, like yabe, tbz, blackstone, like they all kind of, but they were older guys, right, so they were a little bit easier for more, easier for them to be established. So they, they, they set the scene. They were, you know, they were more successful right off the bat because they were just older. We were young guys. You know we didn't that whole first year, you know, we didn't even really have an established for like crew, crew right, like we had this, like a uh, and so it wasn't until, you know, we, we didn't really start traveling until about, you know, 94 or so.
Bud Day:So we, we sang together around the cities, you know, in little palos, yeah, you know, setting up and practicing for a long time, you know, for about, you know, four or five years, yeah, and then, and then we started getting some singers from some other singers that were, you know, either sing with different groups or you know little little local groups around the cities or around Minnesota wanting you know. Hey, you know this. You know we've got this group of young, young guys from the cities, you know, and they're wanting you know, and so we would get other. You know like-minded younger guys from the cities and so you know like-minded younger guys from the cities and so you know we, we started, um, you know like, you know like um, like Worm, and you know Buffalo and you know their, their older brother, late Darian, and like different ones and then like like Terry, st John's younger, younger brother, uh, you know Gistana, um, you know most people know him as G. You know they start singing and then we start picking up just different guys, all different guys from around the, around the city's area, and so. So that's where some of the connection with the Abbe, like you know, like we're, you know like that's where some of those pieces you know a, that's where some of those pieces you know a lot of times if we weren't singing, g would go sing with the Abbe or whatever, and then there was after, even then there were after some years.
Bud Day:You know there was a time where you know different, where you know different ones. You know started singing with different groups and you know, and so that's kind of where, where that was, I want to say that there was, there was really like drama or anything like that. It, where that was, I want to say that there was, there was really like drama or anything like that. It was just that they were, they were, uh, they, we started at similar time, but they were, they were older and so it was a lot easier for them to be established and they kind of set their own style.
Bud Day:Before, you know, before we even really had a crew right like, and so, um, you know, we didn't really start traveling until about 90. You know we'd go to here a little powwow, south core, wisconsin, and stuff like that. You know 92, 93, but really didn't start traveling, you know, out of state until 94, 95, you know, and so, and then didn't really have big success until about 95. You know where we were kind of winning some powwows and actually won gathering nations in 96.
Bud Day:So it was we. We really, uh, sang for quite a while before we really even traveled. You know, when were some of those like yabe? They were already traveling, they were just. It was just. It was just the, the, the nature of, of our age difference, you know. I mean we were still having our aunties and uncles bring us around in a powwow event, you know and they those guys already had their own cars and jobs and kids and everything you know so.
Bud Day:But uh, so you know there was, it was never really really like any major beef or anything like that. It was just you know. And then too, you know, like we've had different singers that you know went singing with them for a period of time and stuff like that, but um, but yeah, so it never really was anything like that.
Shandin Pete:So we made that up and it wasn't this.
Bud Day:Yeah, yeah, you guys, you guys are making starting rumors well, we're toxic yeah we're toxic yeah, well, but so so go ahead.
Aaron Brien:Oh, in our and, I think, the montana people's mind, we just saw minnesota as one place yeah, right we didn't know, like we in our mind, it's like it could be red lake, battle, river, iabe, they're all just it's like. It's like minnesota's one place like, and so we all think you guys are like yeah, one big town one big city, yeah, one big res, yeah, just like saskatchewan. Saskatchewan and alberta are the same place yeah, yeah washington and idaho and oregon are the same place yeah, pacific northwest is all one powerwow.
Bud Day:Well, they do have one powwow.
Bud Day:Pretty much is, you can powwow all year long over there and not leave Pacific Northwest. I know, yeah, so you know there wasn't really a whole lot. You know we definitely looked up to them. You know, as you know, kind of, I guess, building our core. You know, building our group, because you know, shandini, you and I talked about this.
Bud Day:You know it's hard work to keep a drum group together. You know, and there's not really any good or bad way to say it, you know it's just hard. You know like and to have longevity like certain groups have. You know they're just, it's just hard. You know like and to have longevity like certain groups have. You know there's been times where there's been a lull in in their success or travels too. You know like. You know, and, um, you know, like blackstone, you know there's a good time there we're about. You know, tell about maybe five, six years, maybe maybe a little bit longer than that. You know they didn't really travel a whole lot and then they got their, their young, they got their younger guys, you know, you know terry and his boys and you know, and then it kind of took a a little bit of a new look, you know, or a little bit of a but they, but they still have that longevity.
Bud Day:But, uh, you know really successful groups, you know, over time, whether they're contemporary or not, you know they they build their group, you know, into us in a certain way where, where you can't just have nothing but leads, right, yeah, you know it's, a lot of groups have tried it right and it doesn't really pan out, you know. But but you look at the older Blackstone and you know, like back around the 90s, you know, and Iabe, and you know they had a, their group had certain pieces, right, they had their leads. You know five, six leads that were always their consistent leads. And then you got guys that would never, ever lead. You know you got guys who are, who carry their mids, right, you got guys who, who, who are their, their, their junkyard dogs right, that are they're just gonna carry the base and make sure that all those parts are hitting, like you know, and and kind of barking around.
Bud Day:And then, and then also, like I talked about before too, they had their guys who, who would come in with sound effects and side calls.
Bud Day:And you know, you know you had, you know, um, muskid, pookie or j-rock and like different ones, like they'd all have their certain calls and they just, you know, they fill their group with all these different pieces, right, and so a lot of those really sustainable groups and that carried their sound through for years and years would be built like that and so, like we kind of started doing that too.
Bud Day:You know, I don't know if it was by design or if it would just kind of happen that way, but but if you look at it, you know that's how a lot of those groups were successful. You know even you know like different groups, like Midnight, you know, like you know when they came around, you know they had those pieces too. You know what I mean. And we're no different. You know we have guys who lead and obviously, over 35 years of time, you know we've had guys leads and stuff who've came and gone. But you know, trying to keep a core group together is, you know, you have that good five, six guys who are going to carry your sound and yeah carry your core through.
Bud Day:You know we've been fortunate enough to do that and part of those cores have changed over time. But you know, for the past probably 10, 12 years, you know we've, we've been pretty consistent with ours, you know and, and, so you know but, but you can tell the difference in those sounds. You know we've, we've been pretty consistent with ours, you know, and, and, so you know, but, but you can tell the difference in those sounds. You know, like you get groups who just have really like wicked leads, right, but then you know you, you know the, the it doesn't translate into the rest of the song or carrying the body of the song and and and stuff like that, but a lot of those really longevity.
Bud Day:You know groups that they have a lot of that, a lot of those pieces. You know and, like I said, it's a struggle, it's. You know, it's something that you have to put in work right, it's not, it doesn't just get handed to you. You know you got to work to become established. You got to work to continue to become established, because there's always younger guys, always someone coming up behind you and, yeah, some of them might want to join you and some of them might want to take you down, you know what I mean.
Aaron Brien:It's just the nature of the beast. It's just the nature of the beast.
Shandin Pete:It's really complicated, you know, when you think about it, and anybody looking in who's not familiar with the powwow and powwow singing, who just sees it as a bunch of indians chanting around, you know they don't understand that, that, that detail and sort of the, the professionalism and the talent, that, the musical talent it takes to do that, you know I remember attention, the attention to sound, yeah yeah like a good, like a good lead singer or whatever knows sound you know how to put people knows where.
Shandin Pete:Like you know what I mean, they know sound yeah, back in the back in the day when everybody would bring their pas, you know, when everybody have a pa.
Bud Day:Oh, I remember logging up, pas right oh yeah 90. Yeah, I think 97 or 98 was the last year we we took ours around. Maybe yeah 98. I want to say it's about right.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that was the whole deal too, like mic placement, who you're going to set the mic by, and you know, there's this really complicated sound engineering that happens in it, that that you know nobody, nobody knows outside of the powwow circle, and and it's and it's sort of inherent. You know, you don't, you don't think about it. You know, uh, you know, deliberately it just it just happens, sort of sort of inherent. You know, you don't, you don't think about it. You know, uh, you know, deliberately it just it just happens, sort of sort of that way. It reminded me when you said, like like a bunch of lead singers, like everybody, you, everybody's seen the powwow where they say, okay, let's get all the lead singers together and we're gonna lead us in, yeah it all sounds as a group.
Aaron Brien:As a group, they sound bad.
Bud Day:You're like oh or they're sitting there on the drum for like five minutes. I'm a song missing.
Aaron Brien:And then who's going to start it? It's like. It's like you needed you needed the Dennis Rodman's of your group to go off, they would have had something done.
Bud Day:Yeah, yeah About four guys trying to do honor rates different. Time your group to go out there. They would have had something done.
Shandin Pete:yeah, yeah about four guys trying to do honor meets different times. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. That reminded me of that. Every time it's okay, this is gonna sound horrible and everybody wants to record it.
Bud Day:I don't know why it's gonna sound bad, that's pretty interesting, even when they bring like four or five groups together at the end and oh yeah, like nobody ever sings hard, you know, I mean like everyone somebody might lead and then, but ever and then everyone just ends up messing around or, yeah, hitting each other's drum and I mean it's all in fun, but like, yeah, it don't ever sound good I don't think it's ever ends up the way.
Aaron Brien:They, like those people who asked for that, intended it because in them it's like the all-star game. So they're like let's have these guys. But then, it's weird, it's just. Nobody knows how to just playing around.
Bud Day:Yeah, no more. There's not enough Indians.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah yeah every group needs their Indians oh, yeah, yeah, get all the guys who make the sticks together and have them sing. It might sound pretty deadly. The stick makers, you guys are talking about yavi.
Aaron Brien:That was the first time I seen the batting glove oh the slapper. Oh oh no, not the actual man.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, wearing the glove while you're singing.
Bud Day:Yeah, well, I remember two even groups up north, you know, like you know, I think it was might have been Seneca Lake and Stony Park, and you know different ones like that they would have. They'd have the, either that or like the weightlifting gloves with, like the, with the fingers cut off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that was for fighting after the powwow, you know or you see, like the drumsticks, you know, and they got the little leather loop on there or the tape loop, the little trigger, so they don't go handle go flying off.
Bud Day:Yeah, trigger, I hadn't seen that in a while I forgot about the flat, the flat drumstick, the slapper I I've made a couple of those like, yeah, my my big bro oak and bro chuck, they, they were our down beaters for a long time and they I've made them both. One, you know, because you know terry p, terry pascoman, and then also you know late delhi from squawky. They kind of made that famous right like real. Now, thinking back on it it actually, I don't know, kind of sounds ugly now the slapping noise, the slapping noise on it. But back then it was cool. You know, it was cool. I even made one that was like the shape of a hand and all that. Nowadays, thinking back on it, I even made one that was like the shape of a hand and all that, but nowadays, thinking back on it, it didn't really sound very good, but it was cool then.
Shandin Pete:It was definitely cool then well, let's listen to one of Aaron's. Let's jump a generation. Aaron sent me a couple that is apparently iconic from his generation and you guys are going to.
Aaron Brien:Well, I panicked, I panicked.
Shandin Pete:Oh, you panicked, so you're not going to hold yourself to these.
Aaron Brien:No, because you said pick some tunes and I panicked.
Shandin Pete:Well, you got time. You want to pick something else? Go ahead.
Aaron Brien:No, don't, they're good ones. They're good ones I picked good ones.
Shandin Pete:This one you can't look because the label's right on the front of it, so don't look. Aaron's going to get it right off. Let's see if, because he gave it to me.
Shandin Pete:Holy shit.
Shandin Pete:Let's see if Bud can get this one. This one is iconic and this one has a pretty unique. Well, for me, it's like a unique introduction to a different sort of type of contemporary singing.
Bud Day:So let's, let's give this one a sound it's not one of the ones I have, like the wolf howling in the beginning, is it no?
Shandin Pete:I should have remember those two like stony park like every single track had some kind of something on there, yeah, yeah, they had some unique calls too in it smoking. Remember that.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, stop me, yeah, that was awesome, that was awesome, yeah stupid down maybe, but I thought it was cool.
Shandin Pete:All right, here we go. Don't look close your eyes enjoy the sounds. Here we go, here we go. Don't look, here we go.
Bud Day:Give me a thumbs up if you can hear it. You, oh, I know who this is. Yeah, oh, I know who this is. Yeah, oh. Yeah, it's a unique sound, you know, Unique in a different sort of way too for me.
Shandin Pete:anyway, Take a stab at it. What do you think?
Bud Day:Let it run for a second. I don't know what era it was, though. Yeah, I don't know if it was, if it was in the, if it was in the Aaron or the Wave of Days. Okay, you got it.
Shandin Pete:You got it dialed in.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, I don't know who was lead singer at the time let's listen to it and you'll know.
Bud Day:Yeah yeah, that's star blanket yeah, star blanket junior juniors, yeah, yeah, they had cool songs, man they did ain't it, that's pretty unique because they're all real young dude skinny man young and skinny. Yeah, skinny dudes man before, before wavell was a wrestler.
Bud Day:Yeah yeah yeah, no I remember I remember, I remember star blanket, that was those they were always around when we because when we, um, you know, growing up, we, we were always encouraged to, you know, to travel right and and as a contemporary group or a group who was singing word songs, um, you know, that really wasn't the case for the places we would typically go to, you know, like, yeah, like south dakota and like all that.
Bud Day:So like we were like people like you gotta, you guys gotta, come to canada, and so, you know, and in 95, I believe was the first year, we kind of went, traveled up that way and they were around and traveling then too, you know, back in them in those days, you know it was flying eagle, you know, um, star blanket juniors, you know a lot of those groups like that. So I, you know we and they were younger too. So you know, we kind of would, would see them and kind of hang out and whatever too. So like they were, you know, because they were a younger group too, like we were. So it was, it was, it was cool that way, you know, kind of you kind of drawn to those, you know, your, your people, who are your demographic right, yeah yeah, yeah and so so you know, don't get me wrong, we, you know, we, we were, we were pretty good friends with you know blackstone and different ones.
Bud Day:You know, don't get me wrong, we, you know, we, we were, we were pretty good friends with you know blackstone and different ones, you know, yeah, you know, kind of go stare at, stay at you know street grass or different areas, but also you know, like when they, you know, just hang out with who, who's like you, right? So yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, it was we. I remember star blanket, you know well yeah, yeah, it's pretty awesome.
Shandin Pete:This, this sort this, this sort of era, you know this, this younger, they're all younger, they're younger than me and they're blasting these, you know, contempt tunes and I thought that was pretty neat. Plus they had a unique sound because they're all sort of related.
Shandin Pete:I think in a way it came from the same reserve, you know. But I think one of the unique things, just like what happened when sort of Ayabe came on the scene, when I seen him sort of this new kind of swagger of these young people, you know they brought this attitude. You know this attitude about singing, which is new because with the older singers, you know they're from a different generation A little humble right.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, you know they might come back from the rodeo and you know sing some, some tunes, or you know they they had a different sort of demeanor. But then this came, this generation of kind of our generation of well, not necessarily mine, it's probably the generation after mine, but this well, I think, you know, for the older, for the older guys, there was a.
Bud Day:It was um, you know, you see, the older groups at the pals and they were, and it wasn't that they weren't successful, but it was more of a, you know, they were, they were singing because obviously they like to do it, they were good at it, you know, but they were respect, they were respected for it, you know, and and and so that's kind of how they carried themselves, right. But then when the younger, the younger, more successful groups started coming around, yeah, just different ones, right, even even even us at times, you know yeah it became.
Bud Day:It wasn't like a singing for respect thing, it was like singing was cool then, you know, and so so.
Bud Day:So for us that was I mean, that's not saying that's the reason why we sang, but it was cool to be a singer, you know, whereas you know some of those other guys I don't know if it was when they were growing up, if it was necessarily like a thing, if it was necessarily a cool thing for them to be a singer they did it because of you know they, they like to do it, they love to do it, or maybe their your dad or uncles or grandpa, hey, come, sit down and then they, yeah, they just became a singer.
Bud Day:But for us, that new generation like you're saying that time it was, it was, it literally was a cool thing. You know, I mean, yeah, and too, for a lot of, uh, you know, speaking for our group, you know specifically a lot of, you know a lot of you know um, broke, broke indian kids, you know, from the city, you know, you know it was a, it was a way out. You know it was a way out to get traveling and see the world and meet new people and, you know, snag and like all that other stuff, all the cool stuff you know, but also you know like that was the first time some of us had money like that, you know, going out being successful on the power trail, not having to worry about bills at home, and all that you know.
Bud Day:I mean, like you know, getting a 400 drum cut back in the 90s was all that was a lot of money. You know. I mean high rolling we were. Yeah, we were usually traveling together. You know three, four guys in a car, you know, so you got chip ins on rooms or we camped a lot too, you know, and yeah and so like for us it was cool, you know, to be successful and man, you know we made money and didn't have to worry about lots and you know, so like it was cool, the whole everything. It was cool. It was cool for us, you know, especially for most of us. Most of us, early on, grew up in the cities. You know we were.
Bud Day:We're all city boys, you know yeah and, and most of us, you know, none of us really came from from any well-off families or anything like that, and most of us didn't come from per cap, you know communities and stuff. Well, that was even before per cap, anyways, you know yeah but uh, yeah, so it was different. You know, it was definitely cool.
Shandin Pete:It was definitely a cool thing to be a singer yeah no and you could, and you've seen that as as girl, as I was growing up anyway, you can sort of see that change.
Bud Day:Go ahead, finish your thought, though, sir I was just gonna say, you know, we, we were obviously. You know, like I said, we we had. We had really good teachers who gave us our foundation. You know whether it was. You know, you know jim claremont or you know um, you know late johnny smith, or you know just different ones, you know yeah from around the cities.
Bud Day:You know different family members or whatever you know j from around the cities. You know different family members or whatever you know Jerry Dearly and all kinds of singers. We learned from a lot of different singers that were doing that work in the cities, you know. So we learned all the fundamentals of. You know taking care of your drum and you know feasting, having drum feeds and you know making sure. You know our drums were looked after, having drum feeds and you know making sure. You know our drums were looked after and you know you know we were. We're always taught that you know what most, most young people are told when they're growing up and learning about singing. You know you take care of your drum.
Bud Day:You know and the drum's going to take care of you Right Like we we, we knew that we had all those fundamentals too, but you know, definitely singing became cool for us at a certain point, and I don't know when when that shift came or when it, you know, probably when we actually started to sound good, because you know we probably didn't sound good for a while. You know, yeah, not, as you know, like right, right, and so you know, once we started to kind of create our own sound and that kind of stuff is probably when that shift happened.
Shandin Pete:I, I'm assuming anyways yeah, yeah, who was your, who's one of your most influential singers that that sort of like you you sort of aspired to be or you know? That kind of sort of made you sound the way you do? I'm curious about that um they're probably more than one, but you know if there's like right so.
Bud Day:So I don't want to say just for myself, like, I'm like my own singing voice or anything like that, but for us as a group definitely. Um, you get your sound from your sound makers right, like. And we were fortunate enough to early on have really good mentors who actually even gifted us songs right. So we had Terry Paskman give us songs early on, we had Randy Paskman give us songs early on, we had Terry St John give us songs early on, songs early on and uh, but also, um, one of one of our uncles, um, uh, kuno green crow. He, he made a lot of our early songs when we were first starting out. Um, he made them either in makota or in hocha for the most part, and so, um, like, like, we had a lot of uh, a lot of songs that were you know from him, even though he didn't really sing with us very often. He sang with the Abbey more often when we were growing up, but we had a lot of kind of gift us songs early on. And then from there, I think a lot of our early song makers were kind of swayed by their style, right. So those would probably be some of those that were really influential on us early on. But also even, too, it became a thing where our own singers started to make songs. Opie started making a lot of songs and he made a lot of our early songs opie did. And then we had different ones from our earlier, from our early kind of first crew that that would would make songs as well.
Bud Day:I didn't make my first song until I think it was shoot, I don't remember, like maybe 98 or something like that, maybe somewhere around there, yeah, 97, and I myself I was influenced by all those, all those gentlemen you know terry, terry, terry p, terry, saint, john kuno, green crow, uh, opie, my brother, opie, even you know. Uh, randy paskman was a, was a, was a big one for me. Um, he would um, always help me out with words and such. And then another one too was the late for me. Anyways, I was always intrigued and picking his brain and asking him for tips when it came to song making. It was the late Walter Lightning.
Bud Day:He used to sing with Siga, scooch and um and and just different groups from up that way, from muscogee, alberta, from, you know, back then it was called hobima, you know, but yeah, before they changed the name, but so those were some of the singers, song makers, that I was kind of influenced for me, and so we've definitely went through probably about four or five different eras as far as song making goes in our sound, but starting off early on, you know, those were gentlemen that I looked up to and I was really timid, I guess, and actually pretty self-conscious about my song making when I first made made my songs, and so I did this weird thing and there's a couple other song makers that I talked to that said they did this early on too.
Bud Day:So before I would even show my guys a song, I would literally make it two ways. So I would have a set of words and I would have two complete songs done before I would show them, and if they liked one, then that's where we roll with it. And if they did it and I'm like, well, hang on, what about this way? And I'd show them that way, like, and so it was about a good four or five years before I actually kind of broke myself from that that uh habit or practice, because I was so self-conscious about like my songs not being good or guys not liking them that I I would.
Bud Day:I would literally make them two different ways. My very, very first intertribal song I made, um, it was a kree song and um, I made it um two different ways and the one way our guys liked, and uh and but and but. Then I was showing um, you know, one of our mentors, like I was telling you late, late, uh, terry St John, I was showing him both of those and he goes well, hopefully hope likes that one, because I liked that one, the other one and uh. So my very, very first song I made, well, well, the two very first versions I made um, they both ended up on cds, one's on our cd, one of our, our cds, the boys, and the other one is on any, obviously, and so they, they were like, can we have that other way? And I was like, yeah sure, like I didn't think anyone wanted to sing it, but they, so they sang. So my very first contempt song that I made um is actually on two cds nice it's, it's um, you know, and here I didn't think either one was good, but you know and actually the one that we the version that we sang was actually went off, beat it actually went on beat
Bud Day:and I, and I wasn't sure until after, and then the guys were like no, just change it, it's gonna be in a tribal anyways, guys, they can dance to it. You know, yeah, so you know it wasn't. They're like it's not, like it's a contest song where someone's getting you know they're dancing to it and having to stay on beat. So, yeah, we, we kept it that way. Guys are like nope, you know, um, my older brother, uh, uh, hokey and and and chuck. Lastly, they're like nope, just keep it. We like it. It's like, even though it goes off the beat, yeah, we're just gonna roll with it. So, yeah, that's pretty.
Bud Day:So that I would say, like, early on, those were some, definitely some really influential singers on us and, um, I think a lot of groups are that way. You know, I mean like you're starting out, you're kind of wanting to create your own sound, make your own songs, but you know you have other singers from established groups who are encouraging you by. You know, you know, gift a new song because, like when you go to opal, especially if you're newer, you know I mean like we, we grew up singing everybody's songs. You know, I mean sports, fun songs, blackstone, stony park, you know. And then when we first started traveling and competing, you know we only had a small, you know handful of songs. You know 10, 15 songs and, like you know, you kind of need more than that, right like and then, just a little bit more, yeah, right right, especially.
Bud Day:You know, like, like there was even, I remember early on too, where you know we would go somewhere and be like man. We might not get judged on it or something, but it was a song we sang often and like having to go to like blackstone or stony park, you know with tobacco or whatever. And hey, you know, we, we kind of sing this song. You know it's one of your guys older ones. You know we don't sing itoney Park, you know with tobacco or whatever. And hey, you know we, we kind of sing this song. You know it's one of your guys' older ones. I know we don't sing it very often, but you know, you know, do you mind if we sing it? And you know I don't remember a time where a group said no, you know what I mean.
Shandin Pete:Like no, no you can't sing that.
Bud Day:That's a sacred pipe song.
Shandin Pete:Why are you guys singing that?
Aaron Brien:that's a memorial. That's a memorial song. No, it's a badass.
Bud Day:Crew up, not anymore and and now you know it's. It's cool that that you know, like you know, kind of come full circle because it's like you know, there it's um, it's a bit of a reminiscent, but also like it's just a good, a good um, a good realization or memorization of of where we were. You know like, when people in groups um come, come and ask you, hey, you know, or you encourage these, you know, these younger groups, you know like, hey, you know, yeah, or sometimes they don't even know right, like there's, like you know, in the past couple years it's happened a couple times where a younger group or someone you know, maybe from a different part of the country yeah you know I'll be sitting there and I'll be like, oh hey, dang, that's my song, you know.
Bud Day:And I'll go over and put some tobacco or money on their drum and they're kind of like, what are you doing this for? Or whatever. I'm like that was my song, oh, dang, that's your song. We didn't even know, we just heard it and we liked it, you know, yeah, and so sometimes it even happens that way though, yeah, you know, over the past, you know 20 years, you know we've, we've pumped out a lot of songs, you know, yeah, and over the last little bit too, I guess, a lot of my singing, um, I kind of reverted away from, from making a lot of intertribal tunes and stuff like that.
Bud Day:I'll, uh, you know, within a lot of groups, you know, you got guys who make your inner tribals, you got guys who make your round dances and all that. So like, yeah, for a time there it was kind of seeming like man, everyone's just making their tribals. We need, we need a fancy dance song or whatever. So I just, well, I'll do it, you know. So I just started making the majority of our contest songs and then from there it kind of went into the second secondary songs. So majority of what I've made in the probably past five, eight years or so um have been, you know, contest songs or like sidesteps or co-ops, like majority of our of our songs that we sing for. Like contests a lot of them are. We got so many song makers and a lot of guys like making their tribals. Not everybody likes to make contest songs. I'm not saying our song makers don't, because they make some jamming tunes too, but for me my mindset is I'll just stay here because there's definitely always going to be a need for that. You know what I mean.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, Do you ever do that when you made a song and you show it to somebody but you say it's someone else's song? Oh, yeah, oh that's so-and-so's.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that's a good one oh that's so-and-so's.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, that's a good one. I made that tune, yeah so I have.
Bud Day:So I have had that happen before where I've I've sent the guys a song, yeah and uh, they didn't like it or they kind of you know, crickets or whatever, yeah, and then like a year or two later pull it out again. And it's literally happened that way where I've, you know, sent, sent the guys a song yeah kind of fall.
Bud Day:I fell on deaf ears guys don't really have too much reaction to it and then about two or three years later pulled it out. Man, that's that, man, that's dope. When, how? Where was that? When I was like, yeah, I sent it like three years ago, we all didn't like it, but now you like it pretty good man like, but I?
Bud Day:but I haven't came to the point where I was like, uh, where I wasn't like, oh yeah, you know, check the song, so, and so I've never got to that point, though, but I should try it one of these days, yeah, yeah, so I don't know I'm lying. I made that sort of dominating the questions I don't know, I'm lying. I made that.
Shandin Pete:Sort of dominating the questions. I don't know if Aaron has any questions. You guys come from the same era. What no?
Aaron Brien:You got no questions. What's older than me how old are you? I'm 40.
Bud Day:Oh yeah, I'm way older. No, I'm not way older. Born in 80? I'm 40. Oh yeah, I'm way older. No, I'm not way older, we're in 80. I'm 43.
Aaron Brien:Oh, yeah, so not too much.
Bud Day:We would have went to high school.
Aaron Brien:We would have died school together.
Shandin Pete:We would have wrestled on the same team.
Bud Day:I don't feel 43, though I feel like I'm like 36.
Shandin Pete:But in my mind I'm like 29 until I like hang out with some 29 year olds and I'm like, oh yeah, no dude that's the worst, dude, that's the worst. That's the worst.
Bud Day:I don't recommend it, because then you're just like, no, I'm gonna leave now yeah, yeah, do the ir Goodbye, where you just kind of turn and walk away.
Aaron Brien:You know, yeah, fade out, you just fade out Homer Simpson.
Shandin Pete:Do the bushes?
Aaron Brien:Well, are you playing any more tunes or no?
Shandin Pete:I can. I got a whole stack of them here, man. They're from my era, though you want to play another one of?
Aaron Brien:yours. No, play that. I'm just going to tell him play that the song. That's a boy's song, because I want to know the history of the song okay because I like the tune and it's more, it's newer, but, man dude, I love that tune okay yeah, let's get the history on this one.
Shandin Pete:So this is one of one of songs that you all sing. This is um.
Aaron Brien:I just like it. I love it. It's a cool tune.
Shandin Pete:I'll be honest, I don't know, I probably made it, but no, I'm just kidding. It's probably mine.
Aaron Brien:If you like it, it's probably mine.
Bud Day:It's a cool tune.
Bud Day:yeah, that's probably mine, I've had people claim my songs. That's something that that just kind of blew my mind, like what in the world, like actually, even when we went to paris this week. So we went to paris, so, and right after new year, um, and, and did some singing over there, um, and one of the songs that we sang for the dancing portion was, was one of my, one of my kind of burner tunes, you know, like just a quick little straight song. And, uh, someone commented on one of the one of the one of the facebook videos that someone shared and they're like oh, that's my dad's song, blah, blah. I haven't heard it since whenever I'm like okay, okay, all right, maybe, maybe, but maybe not you should have said am I your dad son, probably probably your dad bro yeah, oh man.
Bud Day:No, it was an older lady too, so I don't know, maybe maybe her dad made a tune that sounded like it or whatever, but could have been I was, I was wow all right, so this is um 2018 at least one start, though play at least one start 2018.
Shandin Pete:We're gonna listen to. Yeah, let's, let's check this out.
Bud Day:Shock p 2018 let me get this right which one it is you already, you already know all right dude, I love it here we go, let's get the history on this.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you yeah.
Bud Day:Man, that's good man. So that tune, like how we talked about earlier, you know that kind of iconic 90s slow, contemporary beat Blackstone was famous for. Yeah, back in the day we had a couple that were like that, not a whole lot, but we had a couple that were like that, not a whole lot, but we had a couple, and actually the ones that we did have were were either um, you know, we had one from from um, from terry paskerman, that he gave us. We had one from randy that was like that, and then we also had one from um, from from their brother powwow, um palestinian, that um he gave us. So so a lot of our we had, we had a handful that were slow, kind of blackstone-ish beat like that, and so we wanted to um, kind of bring that back, because at the time you know 15, 16, 17 for you know they probably even more than that 14, 15, 16, 17 on the powertrail, like all the contempt groups, they were all singing. You know all right, you know northern creed, take it away, and it was. You know like, you know all our tribals were really fast jamming. You know young spirit, you know even us, you know the boys, our tribals were just like big jamming fast, you know strong, even us, you know, the boys, our inner tribals, were just like big jamming fast, you know strong beats, and we're like man, we want to do something different. You know, like let's go back to singing a slow one.
Bud Day:And so those words were actually from one of my first inner tribals I made. So that was. That song was made in Ho-Chunk language and so I had those words. I think it was about 1999, I think, yeah, 99, or maybe 90. Yeah, I think 99, somewhere around. There is when, when, when, I made that song, and so the the the first version of it. I don't know if I remember the lead right off him, but it goes on. Oh, yeah, hey, hey, hey hey, hey hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
Bud Day:So that was like the first version. That was way back in the late 90s when I made that song. And so, you know, at the time one of our former singers was wanting to make a slow jam and we were like man kind of put it in the ear of our song makers. We were like man kind of put it in the ear of our song makers hey, you know, let's try an old, slow 90s contempt song. And so I shared those words with Jermaine and he made that. That's where that one come from. And we've got a couple other slower tunes like that since, but we try to throw in maybe one every year or so, you know, kind of a slower tune, um, you know, just to give people something different. But that yeah, so that those were words from a song that was a remake from like way back in the 90s.
Bud Day:I remember we, I remember we, uh, we sang it actually for team boys grass back in skimitson, um, and we got jugs on it. So I, I remember, uh, dancing my first song and running back and you know, don't hold, having someone hold my roach or whatever, and then saying, and then had to try and run and line up, you know, and afterwards even the holy day, even though only danced to the song, um, but I remember we, we, you know that's what I remember about that song, that first, for that first version. So yeah, a lot, of, a lot of my first uh songs I made were either ojibwe, kree or ho-chunk, just because that's who who I I had around me. Um, you know to to get words from, you know, because we grew up in the cities, you know, so we didn't have a lot of language speakers around or whatever. You know, and and I, you know, to be honest, I don't even know if I've ever even made a la folta song, even though, like my uncle, jim, you know claremont, he speaks, you know, he's fluent and everything you know. But yeah, so, like, a lot of my early tunes were either ojibwe or ho-chunk. So, yeah, that's kind of where that's where that song come from.
Bud Day:We wanted to. You know, it's kind of full circle to our talk, you know, because we talked about, you know, that first song. You played that blackstone song and real slow, like yeah, you know they, back then they didn't, they didn't, uh, that back then they didn't need to do the drop, you know. I mean like how we do now, like you know, build up and drop it to go slow. They just sang slow the whole way and you know that was they didn't need to. You know, like everybody was like oh, blackstone, all right, yeah, so yeah, but you're exactly.
Aaron Brien:So the reason I like this song is exactly what you said. So I I've never been a contempt singer, so all the singing. So I would say I like the song is exactly what you said. So I I've never been a contempt singer, so all the singing. So I would say I like listening to contempt singing, but I've never been a contempt singer, right, but my so. But my first powwow listening experience would have been like blackstone and all them guys. But but you're right, there was these like six, seven years, well maybe longer 10 year period where it was like kind of like how that creed confed style is like just boom, boom, boom, boom, and I never got to that?
Aaron Brien:yeah, because to me I was like if I'm gonna sing kind of medium fast, I like a good straight sound like. To me, big bear is like battle river, like that's it. That's how we're gonna sound. I didn't want my like. For me I was like I don't want my contempt to sound like that I don't want to like I did, like I was real biased.
Aaron Brien:I was like, no, I'm not gonna mess with this. If I'm gonna listen to contempt, it's gonna be like that boom. And so when I heard that song, I was it seemed throwback to me. I was like, yeah, this is cool man there's another one too. It's on YouTube too, but it's from Muckleshoot and I'm like man. I love that tune, man, and I was like.
Bud Day:Let's check it out.
Aaron Brien:I don't know if I sent it to you. Did I send it to you, Shani?
Shandin Pete:No, I can find it. But yeah, keep chatting, I'll look for it, yeah it's a bang of a tune, dude.
Bud Day:I love it, man. So one thing that we try to do as a group, and even myself more so as a songmaker, is I like to think about a song that I'm making from the outside. From the outside, you know, looking in from the outside, you know, as from an outside perspective. So if I am recording or I'm checking out a group, right, Like you know, it sounds funny if I'm checking out a group, but you know, it is kind of funny. You see those, those, you get those MCs that tease guys like hey, go over there watching, you ain't got no recorder, you're just over there checking guys out you know bunch of guys.
Bud Day:I don't even care I don't even care, I'm going up there, I'm gonna check them out I don't record, so I don't, I don't really record singing, I'll just go check them out and you know whatever. But if I'm going to watch a group and you know I hear them, they got a cool song or whatever. If I can walk away and I can, there's a part of that song that I can kind of hum or it's memorable, there's a cadence to it, or there's a flow or a tune, a memorable part of that tune. Then that's that's it for me.
Bud Day:Like that's how we try to have our songs, because, you know, contempt, inner tribals are a dime, a dozen, right, like it's just no, there's no if, if, ands or buts about it. There, you know, like, and even more so in the past 10 years, you know, you know you'll get these big name groups ourselves included, you included where we might get a new inner tribal and we might sing it three, four powwows in a row and then we might not sing it again until the next year because it's kind of already played its time out. And so, because of the nature of how powwow contests are, you have to have new stuff all the time, all the time, and that's one thing that we we wanted to shift this year, you know, our, our lead singer Hokie. He talked about that this spring, you know, or this earlier, this, this winter spring. I say spring because it was kind of like spring, even though in winter time.
Shandin Pete:But we were host somewhere and he's like right.
Bud Day:Like well, last week here in michigan it was, it was 36 degrees, and the next day it was 76, and then the next day was 21 so, like it's, that's about what it's been like here in mondana.
Bud Day:Yeah but uh, but, uh. So hokey made mention of that and because every every pow, you know, we um, my wife and well, all of our wives kind of tease us, because we're usually the last group ever there, you know, to power, whether we're hosts or not, you know, because we, we come together every, every, at the end of every powwow, whether we're hosts or contesting, no matter how we do, and we, we talk about the weekend just quickly and kind of, you know, thank everybody. But then we also pray, you know, with our group. But while we were doing that, he mentioned, you know, for he's like, one thing I want to do different this year for our song makers is, you know, don't push them out. You know, don't, don't try to push them out every a new one every month, because you know we don't necessarily need that. We can it, we've had, we've done it, but I want our song to be more memorable. I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to sing one and then someone, you know, um, you know, a couple years later, hey, how come you guys don't sing that one? I've only heard you sing it twice and, yeah, you know, just sing it for contest twice and then move on, you know, so we want it.
Bud Day:He's like let's sing them. You know, yeah, we might come up with a new one, you know, maybe once a month or something, but it might. Doesn't have to be in a tribal, doesn't have to be just, you know, come up with some slower, but sing them, actually sing them. You know, sing them throughout the summer. Yeah, make them more memorable. You know, like, yeah, and so that's what we've been trying to do, that's what I've tried to do as a song maker. Is is, and that's what we've been trying to do. That's what I've tried to do as a songmaker and that's what makes it for other groups too.
Bud Day:It's like, oh man, if I'm walking away and I'm humming a tune or a part of that song, then that's what makes it memorable with me, not if it's just loud and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and then it's like, what are they even saying? You know, um, you know we have songs like that too. You know, I mean, but, but I, that's something that me, as a song maker, really try to do, and we try to make our song memorable, you know. So that way, that way, they're they last right and and and. If I'm doing that um to someone else's song or some you you know, then hopefully you know the way we make our songs and sing them. Then hopefully other people are doing that you know. Well, this song here is one of those.
Aaron Brien:This song here to me was one of those I heard, just I heard. Once I heard it I was like this is like one of the tunes I like it. It's cool, man, let's listen to it Ready, let's do it.
Shandin Pete:It's cool man Throwback, let's listen to it. Ready, let's do it. Can you hear it? Yup.
Aaron Brien:You ready.
Shandin Pete:T-H-E-B-Y-Z. Thank you, oh yeah, yeah, well yeah.
Bud Day:So I I really like those songs. Where you can, we can make the words out right, like yeah, I mean, I have songs like that too, though myself myself, where they're like boom, boom, boom. But one of the things I guess for me is sometimes people will say, hey, what language is that? And I'm like, oh, that's Korean. I'm like, wait what? But I'll put two parts of a word together and then maybe the first half of a word, and then I'll put a straight part and then the second half of the word later. You know what I mean.
Bud Day:So it's like the way words and stuff are broken down and everything, but I also really like being able to hear what the words are. You know, make it out to wherever. If someone was to take a guess, more than likely they'd be right, right, yeah, oh, hey, is that? What is that a word? A cha there? Yep, yep, but uh, yes, yeah, I like, I like those. Like those tunes like that. You know those. Again, that's, those are memorable tunes, you know where, where you kind of go away humming it or or at least you know a part of it. You know you can remember as you're walking away, right, like then you know you've done your job. But uh, yeah, that was another tune that, uh, jermaine made. Um, it was at 2019 or somewhere around there yeah, 2019.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, but that's a cool tune well, that makes sense, because back in the day, when Jermaine had North Bear every once in a while they'd kick out like a slower tune because they were kind of a fast contempt like jammer of it. Actually the only time I ever sang contempt in a contest was with North Bear. It was so weird. You know, it's just like for me, for me straight singing like right, that's like my deal, mandarin is on my mount rushmore, and so I show up to this power.
Aaron Brien:They come to me. They're like hey, who are you singing with this weekend? I'm like nobody I just thought I was checking it out. They're like you want to sing with us? I was like, all right, I'll sing with north bear. I never. I didn't think nothing of it. Shit about an hour later, man.
Bud Day:Didn't learn all kinds of tunes.
Aaron Brien:Yeah. So about an hour later Mandarine comes up to me and says like hey, will you sing with us this weekend? And I was, like I just told North Bear. And I didn't want to be that guy that was like I already said I was going to sing.
Shandin Pete:And I was just like, and then Mand, and then Mandarin won and we took second.
Bud Day:I've been on both ends of that spectrum Actually all three sides of that, I should say Because we've done it where we've asked somebody and then they've jumped ship and they already were singing with somebody. Or we'll ask someone and they're like oh no, and then whatever, oh man, I'm already asked, like oh, dang it. And then I've done that myself both times too, where someone's asked and was like, oh, no, man, I'm sorry, I'm already so sorry, you asked me. And then there's also been times where and it's kind of karma too, because there's, I think it was that same way to a two to where someone was like, well, for me, anyways, someone was like, hey, you want to sing? I'm like, oh man, I anyways. Someone was like, hey, you want to sing? I'm like, oh man, I'm already singing over here. And come on, man, just jump ship, or whatever.
Shandin Pete:I'm like grass is looking greener over there, like I'm gonna win, man, you're sure to win one last year like all right, man.
Bud Day:And then you know at the oh man, sorry, I I already told them, but I didn't. I didn't think they were here, so they're you, you know, kind of whatever type of deal, jump ship. And then, here you know, lose out or something or get second like dang it like you know, I've been.
Bud Day:I've been on all three sides of that spectrum. You know they've been pretty crazy. I've also had a group. I've also had a group one time at gathering. It's kind of hey man, are you guys full? And yeah, yeah, we're full. And a little bit later is, oh well, why, who's that? You know who? Who? For it's like, oh yeah, I was just looking for somewhere to sing. Well, hang on, hang on here. A little bit later, yeah, yeah, got you down and I'm like a little bit, and then to hear see someone at the power, oh yeah, man, you're singing. No man, I was singing over here. But uh, they, they said they were full.
Bud Day:I was, I thought I was in, but uh, I guess they had already told someone else in here I was the guy who's like oh man, they booted somebody for me like oh man, like this is horrible.
Shandin Pete:Go to sit down and there's no chairs to sit there's those.
Bud Day:There's a bunch of funny memes out right now, like you know, like you know when you call and they tell you you're full or whatever, like there's a bunch of them out there.
Aaron Brien:Pretty funny man, maybe next weekend man yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe next weekend, I don't know, and maybe next weekend, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe next weekend, I don't know, yeah, maybe next weekend, but we got so in the podcast where we talked I can't remember who was on it, Was it Mike LaFrancois we talked with like about straight singing.
Shandin Pete:Was it Mike or was it Jon?
Aaron Brien:Jon no Walt.
Bud Day:Yeah, it was Walt.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shandin Pete:So we said the same thing.
Aaron Brien:We said the same thing that you said, bud where, like the contest has created I mean, although it's fun and I've had a lot of fun, but it's also created a culture where we're pumping songs out so much, yeah, that these songs that people grow up listening to, they don't, they don't take root like they used to. Right yeah, and so the same would be for contempt singing too, like these songs, like we talked about yabe right. Everybody knows that tune.
Bud Day:Everybody knows it because they're floating around forever and when they yeah, dude, and you expect like, oh, hey, you know, you got these young groups showing up and they're like we're gonna sing a hot stepper. It's like all right, you know. Or or like jay rocks there, or whatever, and you got this young group like or opie or somebody, and they're like hey, come sit down, and then they sing the hot stepper or whatever you know yeah, dude, it's classic.
Aaron Brien:But because the contest is forcing people like you're saying so it's. It's refreshing to hear pokey say, like maybe chill on that for a little bit, let's.
Bud Day:Let's kind of like right like, like you said, take kind of take root, you know like, because, uh, well, recently it passed probably three years uh, one of our nephews, um, you know he, uh, mervel's, mervel's oldest um, started singing with us. You know, um, full time, you know, and he's always kind of growing up wanting to be a singer and stuff and everything. But, uh, um, you know he didn't always sing with us but he's always, you know, in the. It'd be like three, four in the morning. I'll be driving somewhere on the way to power, heading back or whatever, and he'll send me a tune. Be like hey, let's sing this one. And obviously it's probably you know a tune from when he was in diapers or you know somewhere around there, but someone, every now and then, you know it's been I think it's happened like twice where he sent me a tune and like hey, what are the words to this? And I'll ask hulk or someone and I'm like hey, whose song is that me? Like dude, that's yours.
Bud Day:And I'll have to look, listen to it about three or four more times and then, before I finally like oh, oh, yeah, like, but it's because of that, you know, we it was something where you know we might have sang it maybe two, three times and that was it, you know, and it kind of just fell by the wayside, not that it wasn't a good tune, it just just had more coming on the back end. You know, and just like there's just yeah, so definitely, definitely part of the culture. You know, and I would say probably the last you know 10, 15 years it's been that way, you know, to where you know you get a certain, even two, you know groups that make cds every year, you know, I mean like yeah you gotta think there's 10, 12 songs on on a cd.
Bud Day:You know, basically right yeah and if they're making, you know, a cd every 10, 11 months or something and you know you might remember one song from that, you know there's hardly a time where you're gonna have a song or a cd that's iconic, memorable. You know you're like, oh, that's from that cd. You know, I mean, like midnight has a couple that are like that. We're like, oh, yeah, the rising sun city or you know, or whatever, that one they made in nabby power or whatever. You know that one's got a lot of iconic tunes on there where you know, oh, hey, yeah, that one's from there or the other ones from there. You know, even just to, you know you, we probably already know. You know, if I say buffalo cloud, you know like, oh, we probably know all those tunes on that city from blackstone.
Bud Day:You know, um, you know, but fort de shane, oh, yeah, that one too, that one too, that one's that those are, uh, the fort de shane ones are probably the ones we grew up singing in the basement, you know those are a lot of those the don't know what don't on our ones, you know yeah.
Aaron Brien:Well, like your guys' Life and Times, to me that was. That was a dope CD man.
Bud Day:Yeah, that one was pretty good. Another one too, I think, is the Boys Will Be Boys From Hinkley.
Aaron Brien:Oh yeah.
Bud Day:That one's got a lot of good tunes on there too, like we could sing that a song from there for a grand entry. And you know, even though it's just for a grand entry, you know, because it's an old classic tune, you don't have a bunch of people running up, and we try to do that every now and then too at host jobs. Like hey, for one grand entry, let's just bust out one of our like a classic from somewhere, and so it kind of becomes a little bit of a homework for some of the guys. Like hey, find a jam that we can try out and pull back out for grand entry, or something like when we're host or whatever yeah and uh, that's always fun, you know people want to hear it, because they yeah one's right.
Bud Day:It's like, it's like classic right yeah it's like something they they grew up on or whatever like yeah well it's like opposite go ahead.
Bud Day:I was gonna say what one tune that comes to mind is uh, a song that, um, that uh mike sullivan and and Everett made together and we sang that one pretty consistent for about two years, even contesting quite often with it. But it's one of those slow ones again. I think we sang it for Granite Tree one time last year too. Day, oh my name every now and then. I think we sang it for Granite Tree one time last year too, and so, like some of those old classics like that, you know, it's just easier to remember, especially the slower ones. It's like oh yeah, that slow one, you know that's a cool tune dude, I remember that one that's a killer tune man, that's pretty amazing that's a killer tune man.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that's amazing, that's the melody that's one thing I think a lot, of a lot of people don't understand too is how much songs a person carries around in their head.
Bud Day:You know there's massive I was thinking about that, even just songs that I made.
Bud Day:Yeah, you know like, even right now on my phone, my voice notes, I probably have about eight or 10 woodland songs that I made, probably about 30 round dances that I recorded on my phone that I made, and then just random powwow songs you know that I have to save them on voice notes, you know like, and then just thinking about it, like man, as a power singer especially someone who sings who, who you know who, who likes singing contempt or original, like you have to think about it and like we probably know thousands, like probably every singer probably knows at least 2 000 songs like to where, if someone started humming it, you're like, oh yeah, that one, I know, that one, I can sing that one, you know it might not be right from recall, but you know it. If someone's saying it, or maybe that might even be your own songs or your own group songs, you know. I mean yeah, because I think about it. If a group's been around for 10 years, you know more likely they probably have about 1,000 songs in that 10 years.
Shandin Pete:I believe, it.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, because yeah, and then their recall just their knowledge from when they were coming up, so they have all them songs from coming up and the songs they compose, and then the songs they hear from just being out.
Bud Day:You know right, oh I mean not a thousand, but like a hundred songs in those 10 years, you know what. So it's like yeah, there's a lot of songs, a lot of songs people know, and then it comes to. Then it comes to to, like you know, nowadays, round dances are more prevalent too nowadays too. So you gotta throw in round dances that people know and all that too, not just powwow. So like people know a lot of songs like I. I was thinking about that.
Shandin Pete:It's kind of kind of blew my mind, like how many songs I, I think, I know yeah, it's a man and I don't even sing southern, but I know, I know a lot of southern tunes too there's this weird, that weird phenomenon and I don't know if it happens to you probably everyone but like you can see a song, like you can sort of you can visualize its shape, or you know, like you got a visual of it, but you can't, you can't get it out, you know, unless somebody sings a little piece of it, then then that that visual memory of it kind of helps to, helps them out singing.
Shandin Pete:I don't know if that happens to you, but I can see a lot of songs, but I can't, I can't see them well enough to to to sing a whole thing through. You know, unless I hear a little piece, then it kind of snaps that sort of visualization I have in my head. I don't know if that happens to you, but that's sort of how I see them, sort of like a mine comes similar.
Bud Day:But it's like not necessarily seen it in that way, but seen it how the song's broken down, like oh, that one song has that pause here and then there's that three and then there's, you know, it's kind of similar but it's not.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that's kind of how I remember songs. It's like sections, part like it's mechanical to me, like the way I see a song is mechanical.
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Aaron Brien:That makes sense, it does Right.
Bud Day:Well, I, you know, I. So I, you know, I've been working with youth for quite a while and you know, teaching culture and language and different things like that in my professional life, you know. And teaching somebody to dance, like I like to teach in how, not just, hey, you move your feet, like this, and you go to the beat, like I always start with the beginning, right, like even when, like, if I'm teaching young boys, like I teach them the story about how the drum came to our people, you know, as Anishinaabe people, you know how we got powwow, kind of like that, and start from there. But when I'm teaching people about dancing, or young ones about dancing, it's kind of that similar way. So I'll break down a song and the structure like on a whiteboard for them this is what happens here, this is what happens here and this is the next part, and this is the next part and this is the first verse, here's the break, here's the second verse, you know. And then I break it down from that way so that you know I'll have it. The first verse first push-up, second push-up, third push-up, fourth push-up, and I have it represented on the whiteboard in some way shape or form, and so if we play back a song and they're just listening to it can be any song, we listen to it. I can pause it and then have them point to me on the whiteboard where we're at, like, oh yeah, and so yeah, so, like so that they are knowing how a song structure is, because, like, there's power dancers that are, you know, that have been dancing 20 years and don't know what a song structure is.
Bud Day:You know what I mean and and so that's something I like to try to do, you know, try to break it down, and I mean it wasn't always a an exact science or nothing.
Bud Day:It's kind of, you know, something I've learned and tweaked a little bit along the way, but something I try to do when I'm teaching young people about dancing, because you know they can feel it. You know feel the music and move how they want to. But you know, if they don't understand what the song structure is, then they're not going to understand if they're on beat or not. They're not going to understand when to stop on time, all those different kind of nuances, right, yeah, so that's kind of how I I visit, I do visual, I guess I do to visualize it as well yeah, I think we all kind of see it a little different, but that's that's kind of what I noted about a lot of singers too is that I, you know, chatted with they see it they see a song in a certain way instead of hearing it right you see it, and maybe it's like breaking it down into those little pieces.
Shandin Pete:But I don't even tell you what it looks like but I see it, that's how I see it.
Bud Day:Well, a lot of my singers, a lot of my singers, when they're learning songs too well, you utilize their hands right.
Bud Day:So say, you're singing a song along and they're kind of catching it and and with their hands they'll be like yeah, yeah, yeah oh, that part goes up right there and then it's a cuts, and then, oh, and then it comes back, and then it goes back up and it drops, and so a lot of singers, uh, learn with their hands when they're learning songs too. Yeah, like they'll learn, they'll follow along those different parts and those cuts pauses back and forth. You know where the song tune raises up or where it's higher, where it drops, yeah yeah, I see it and that's pretty interesting.
Shandin Pete:Well, hey, man, we've been at it for about two hours. Didn't seem like it, but I know, and we could keep, we could keep going, man, because I mean, I didn't even get that.
Aaron Brien:He's going to edit an hour out of this. I'm not going to, I'm just going to let it roll, man because this is a good one.
Shandin Pete:This is an important conversation. It's not like our usual podcast, you know. It's for a very specific audience, I think. But you know, I think people appreciate seeing the nuances. The nuances, as they would say, of kind of our way of singing in this.
Aaron Brien:I've had. I've had like non-Indian people that listen to the podcast, cause I asked him I was like does it, do you get lost? And they're like, well, yeah, we get lost, but it's. We'd rather listen to authentic it's like spoon fed, you know.
Bud Day:Yeah, still entertaining. That's what I like. It's still entertaining, regardless of whether you follow everything or not you know, yeah, um, and we didn't even get to talking about uh, about, like you know, trick songs or any of that kind of stuff either.
Bud Day:You know, like because uh, but uh well yeah, I, I, I enjoyed um, chatting on here with you fellows and kind of reminiscing and everything, sharing some experiences of mine. You know, like, like I said, it didn't really didn't really dawn on me until we were talking that you know, this July, you know we've come a long way as a group, you know, and you know, went through about three different, three different cores, I guess you could say, but we've, we've stayed consistent and we've, you know, and, uh, you know I, I, you know I owe everything that I, you know, that I am to, you know my teachers and and, and you know, my brothers, you know that sing with us and you know, always being supportive of you know, the things that you know we want to do as a group and that each one of us want to do individually, and kind of the vision of where we want to go. You know, okay, and I talked about it, you know, like you know, because you know we've had our name, you know the boys, for a while and you know we always get, you know, after about five or six years, you know, started getting different ones, different older guys and just whoever kind of poke fun. Oh, so when are you guys going to be the man and like that kind of stuff, and we're like, you know, we're just, you know it's, it is our, our name and that's we kind of stuck with it, you know. And, um, it actually came about.
Bud Day:We didn't, we didn't actually set up the first session of the power we were at because we're okay, nope, we couldn't figure out what to call us, and then it just kind of came and they're just like hey, let's, let's just do that, but with a z, you know. So like, all right, so we'll, we'll, we might come up with something cooler later, and then that's kind of how we yeah, but it's just stuck and we've been.
Bud Day:The boys are tbz ever since, you know, but um, still thinking on yeah yeah, right so we've talked about it, though we're like. You know it's been 30 years. You know, hopefully you know another 20 or so more. You know, we're just gonna keep singing and keep, keep, hopefully, making people dance until until we we can't no more. You know, and you know, we got, we got, we got sons and nephews and stuff now and like yeah you know, our, our sons have talked about you know, oh, when you guys are gone
Bud Day:you know we're gonna still, you know, and it seems crazy to think about it but like, hopefully that does happen, you know, like they could continue singing and carrying the name on and whatever. Yeah, kind of with the groundwork we've laid. You know it's so, but I, you know, I love everything about singing to my. Actually, my, my, my, my, my indian name is drum, you know, in the, in the, in the nishinabe ojibwe language just is, which is a drum, and so that, you know, I was kind of born to sing, you know, it was just every, it's always been a part of.
Bud Day:You know that everything that, uh, everything that I've, I've done brought me a lot of places, you know, and I've, you know, made a lot of, a lot of good friends and you know, you know, so I'm really fortunate enough to be a part of, you know, our group and you know I'm, I'm, I'm glad our, our, our guys are supportive and you know we're just going to keep on, keep on trucking and keep on, you know, going and taking it, taking it where it allows us, you know, I guess. So, yeah, you know. So I want to, you know, give a shout out to all, all my singers, you know, all the tbz, our backup, you know our all, our family, everyone, who, everyone, who, who, who looks after us on the power trail, all the relatives we made, kind of all those. You know all those connections, and all our supporters. You know everyone, who, who, who appreciates us. You know we appreciate everybody you know.
Bud Day:And to be able to come and share a little bit on on here with you guys, you know, you know, definitely would be welcome. You know it would be very, very welcome to come back. You know, I, I, I think it'd be awesome to come back and share with you guys again, you know, with whatever you know, so sure yeah, let's do that because there's there's a lot of, uh, additional questions.
Shandin Pete:You know that that sort of get to, um, you know the heart of the importance of singing that we didn't even get to.
Shandin Pete:You know, touch on, and I don't think we're trying to go there, we're just trying to look at some of the history of contemporary singing. Right, it's good to have someone who's been around for that long in the contemporary style to know, because we've talked with other folks who have been in the different styles of singing and that's kind of Aaron and I's interest is songs and singing and, importantly, how that feeds into what us Indian people know and understand about ourselves. I work in this academic world where they want to focus on, it seems, like the wrong things. It's the things that we really focus on and that we enjoy and that we see change through time, that are really important and that folks like you have this deep knowledge of. That's the important thing to me. So that's good, man, thanks for taking the time and just one question what advice would you give to the young, impressionable singer out there? You know what? What would be this two-line advice that you'd give them to sort of have to be like this wise thing that would help them on their way.
Bud Day:I would say learn as much as you can, even if it's something you don't think that you know you'd be interested when it comes to singing, because the more you know about, about all aspects of singing you know, the better you know. Um. So learn, always, learn you never. You're never too big. You're never too big of a name. You're never. You know, it was just being humble. Know that you can always learn right, like, just always striving to learn and be better, because whether you're on top already, you can still be better, because you're going to need to be better or stay up there. If that's the case, you know like you're going to always have to improve. So always, always learn, always be open to learning, wanting to improve. Learn all you can about singing, um. And then second would be just, uh, you know one thing that always stuck with us as a, as as a group, um, from our older uncles and older singers, you know, that kind of kind of shaped and molded us to where we are now is is, uh, know that, um, there's always someone watching. You know somebody is always that there's always someone watching. You know somebody is always out there looking to you or up to you, and regardless of what you do, whether it's after power or at home or whatever someone, they're always going to associate you with your group.
Bud Day:So be thinking and act like that. You know, don't do anything, you would want to come back on you or your group. So be thinking and act like that. You know, don't, don't do anything, you would want, um, to come back on you or your group or your or your family or anything like that. So because I know there's, you know there's craziness and stuff that happened out there at powell's, you know with, you know after the powwow and all that and everything. So but just always know that you know there's always somebody out there watching you, someone looking up to you, whether it's younger singers or whatnot. And so just always, just kind of operate that way that you're a reflection of your group, you're a reflection of your teachers. So those two things, I think, will take you a long way just always trying to learn, always trying to be better, and then just know there's always someone watching because you are a reflection of who taught you and your group.
Shandin Pete:Nice.
Bud Day:And I think that's brought us a long ways.
Shandin Pete:And that's some good advice.
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Right on, man. Thanks for your time.
Bud Day:Oh yeah, appreciate you guys and, you know, looking forward to listen to much, much more of you guys. And again, you know I'm always down to come on and talk for another two hours.
Shandin Pete:As you guys have learned.
Bud Day:I kind of got the gift of gab.
Shandin Pete:I can kind of stop me every now and then, all right.
