Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast

#45 - Tribal Pride and Prejudice: Understanding superficial practice and actual practice.

• Aaron Brien, Shandin Pete • Season 3 • Episode 45

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My uncle shot a real big buck. 0:00
The Public Enemy tape. 2:31
The best old dance recording I've ever heard. 14:39
Weasel skins and porcupine quills. 17:59
The problem with romanticism about the past. 24:36
Practitioners knowledge vs non practitioners knowledge. 32:04
Practice vs. Ideology. 39:16
Dealing with the fear of not being enough. 45:48
The importance of not being critical of indigenous studies. 50:18
When does it become our responsibility to tell people to be respectful? 1:07:56
Put your pride away. 1:12:34

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Shandin Pete:

yeah I know about all that. I know all that. I know about all that.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know.

Shandin Pete:

Or if they don't know they're gonna go ask some weird uncle or something. I'll go go ask my uncle but he knows all about it.

Aaron Brien:

Always an uncle. Yeah.

Shandin Pete:

Always

Aaron Brien:

Mongo Mongo shot a real big buck Yeah, the real big bucks

Shandin Pete:

oh yeah uncle Oh yeah. Every time man I know your uncle you didn't do none of that

Aaron Brien:

beat your uncle

Shandin Pete:

can cap on yeah get that thinking cap on. ordered up myself full cassette deck where it can transfer tapes to digital. So I had the

Aaron Brien:

nice

Shandin Pete:

yeah. I got this big sack of tapes from my dad's that he held on to for many years and he's got some lot of recordings in there man some Crow Fair recordings from 77 bunch from haze singers. I don't know what year whole mess from ke IO. That some old tunes from for Hall? Probably about 200 cassette tapes. 200 cassette tapes. Too much tapes.

Aaron Brien:

Too much.

Shandin Pete:

I'll have to have them

Aaron Brien:

too much

Shandin Pete:

employs the mole tape splicing techniques because some of them are busted, you know? You know when they split? Right you are you're you weren't even alive during the tape era. Era at the splice a tape for

Aaron Brien:

40 years old.

Shandin Pete:

Well, you're not getting that excited about all these tapes. You're kind of dull.

Aaron Brien:

I spliced the Public Enemy tape. Twice the Public Enemy tape in my life. I've spliced the very first music I ever purchased of my own was a tape and it was it was Blackstone. But there's Yeah. I can't remember for the shame. Oh, yeah. I always tell that story where I got per cap scrolled where they gave me a little bit of my per cap. I ran over to a stand. Yeah, and I seen a Blackstone tape and I bought it based on the cover.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, yeah,

Aaron Brien:

I bought it

Shandin Pete:

had a buffalo skull painted up. He's got to have that. You don't matter what the group is. It's got some feathers on it. Looks kind of cool. That black in black and orange was sort of like in colored in the 90s you know? Black yellow. Yeah, you had a black and yellow stripes. That's cool.

Aaron Brien:

Black and yellow black in you.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, yeah. If you run out of ideas Yeah, so yeah,

Aaron Brien:

your tape your tape. I still have a box of tapes in there. They're actually in a shoe box. How cool would that be if they were in LA gear shoe box

Shandin Pete:

that would be cool. That'd be really cool

Aaron Brien:

actually. I'm really tempted to find a tape deck for like my my feet pickup my feet truck view in there but I want to find a CD and tape deck just in our house my CDs and tapes there. It's

Shandin Pete:

one of them jobs where you you know you get the old tape deck. You don't mount it. It just it's just lays in the middle and it's it's spliced in with like some speaker wire

Aaron Brien:

and you know car battery here pick up battery when you speed up there was a there was a cool run in the late 90s Where Walmart had some like pretty inexpensive like car stereo stuff and it was called oh she was called but like you can buy the packages of like wires and oh it was really inexpensive but, man we was like wiring everybody's frickin Ford Rangers. yeah we thought we were cool you know cuz like I don't know if you remember people were into amps and like oh yeah could have like big speakers but to champion amp that could push them to push them yeah. Oh man I stopped picking up man I want to get a floor amp things like I mean even to like the little fuses that go with the amps and oh yeah what were those things called this that they were purple like the color scheme was kind of like golden purple black to stab it was a Walmart brand of CD players tape players the wires boxes

Shandin Pete:

yeah I don't remember how he would

Aaron Brien:

you would brag on like your speed like did you have a

Shandin Pete:

yeah

Aaron Brien:

and jobs yeah fourteens falls gates

Shandin Pete:

for his gates Rockford Fosgate

Aaron Brien:

and you're in your base tape Sean Dean's base tape

Shandin Pete:

yeah yeah he got Cubase tape it's got to have some genuine on there

Aaron Brien:

that was kind of like my yeah I was that I think I'm the age where like CDs are pretty much my whole life but they were like they seemed like hard to access Oh yeah. Because now I look back like Nirvana like nevermind I was I was an eight or whatever when that came out yet it came out on CD but I don't remember ever seen the CD tell. I was like getting high school. Yeah. Yeah, but the tapes were everywhere.

Shandin Pete:

No Yeah. tapes are easier to take care of you know,

Aaron Brien:

they're in gas stations.

Shandin Pete:

It could get Waylon Jennings best hits and in the old gas station remember those? Remember those TV commercials? You know rocket to the 90s you get like eight cassette series of the best of the 90s

Aaron Brien:

Come on baby. Let's do the twist Yeah, and then the song names come up

Shandin Pete:

yeah the song names scroll by yeah and yeah,

Aaron Brien:

and here it's like Cat Scratch Fever

Shandin Pete:

rock Do you familiar favorites like Best of stadium hits stupid

Aaron Brien:

state stadium every Rose has its cowboy sings a sad song or something like that right yeah

Shandin Pete:

that's it

Aaron Brien:

well, mg Music

Shandin Pete:

Oh yeah. I still got bad credit from that

Aaron Brien:

from except yeah RCA 30 tapes for us Penny

Shandin Pete:

Yeah 30 apiece Yeah 30 tapes for a penny then they keep sending you tapes every month and charging you

Aaron Brien:

like like the day everything that was gonna like be successful like yeah I'm gonna send you free tapes and on the honesty system you can send check our money or Yeah, Virginia

Shandin Pete:

cod being sent to your doorstep well listen to this tune. I haven't previewed it so I don't know what's in the sunlight. Just check it out.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, check it out. Alright, check it here we go.

Unknown:

Guys Hello

Shandin Pete:

Oh, blew it air blow that lead was already had it didn't have it and everybody seconds yeah. Yeah. Some old tunes

Aaron Brien:

I mean class Class classic classic elegance classic and and that I will then students from that time so I'm going to say I'm going to guess this in the set early 70s late 60s Maybe

Shandin Pete:

that'd be my guess Yeah. Late 60s early 70s Yeah, you don't hear it like that anymore?

Aaron Brien:

No, so one thing I like about them older are our dance the way the songs are composed. They're like real repetition rapid tissues. Yeah, repetitive and they're almost like chante kind of. Oh, what do you mean? Yeah, like play that song again and think of chant like think of a chant. Okay, play it again. Play at least

Shandin Pete:

what kind of chant like a monkey just

Aaron Brien:

kind of think of like like no like marching in like a marching like just think of marching and think of a think of this repetitive like chant let's play it and like hell

Shandin Pete:

no, we won't go hell

Aaron Brien:

no split family no

Shandin Pete:

for force for reform was just all right. Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

Wait and kind of think of that marching Chanti

Shandin Pete:

the march that's just the beat though. I think

Aaron Brien:

know the song Wait a song.

Shandin Pete:

Alright, the song

Aaron Brien:

Jack stellina so I know why he does that though. I can tell why. What. So you've been there when you're singing songs with the lead doesn't match the verse. Yeah. It's like it's it's hard. So his his the way he's trying to lead it? Yeah, it's probably a little more natural. Actually tell the song sounds the verse because it's kind of its own thing than the verse comes in with that kind of. Hey, you know, yeah, we're like, the lead is almost kind of its own thing. So if it was me, and I didn't know what a song and they passed me the lead I probably wouldn't did. He did he all he does is he jacks, the beginning of the verse. Just takes that for the lead in. Yeah. And so he kind of I could see it in my head, like when a singer messes up a lead. Yeah, kind of look around and you fade out of your lead. And then that singer will always come in and pick you up. But

Shandin Pete:

yeah, yeah. But, you know, man, those are the hardest ones when he just learning the song. You can get the lead pretty quickly. If it's like the rest of the song. You kind of know. Yeah, I don't know.

Aaron Brien:

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Yeah, like, yeah, it has a little bit of a different composition to it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I like it. Man. I love them all our dancers. In fact, if I had to say like, when it comes to cruising music, in terms of native music, like Yeah, PA school, or like, straight tunes are cool and like grass dance style songs are cool, but that you can also kind of get like, played out on that, you know, but like, our dance tunes are pretty much always cool.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. Yeah. You don't hear much anymore. You

Aaron Brien:

know, you don't in fact, the best old Dance Recording I've ever heard. What is that? Six ago Ramblers recording it but they're not called Siksika Ramblers. It's just as Blackfoot I will dance songs.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, yeah, but

Aaron Brien:

pretty much I haven't been yet old woman. yeah and achieve in my case a killer recording now like even this quality of the recording very Indian house ask. Oh yeah, but it's not an Indian house recording man. So if anyone wants to hear good ol dance tunes in clarity Yeah, it's the best that's the best recording I know of. But then sound chiefs back in the day they have they have some killer recordings of Yeah, of good legend singers you know from all over

Shandin Pete:

the classics. The classics. Pretty good man. My glasses. Well, it's a good episode stuck in that loop, man. Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, man. It happens.

Shandin Pete:

Switch on talk about

Aaron Brien:

whatever you got, what do you got? What do you got?

Shandin Pete:

I was reading through this thing. I was reading this deal just a second ago about trade. I don't we're not gonna talk. I don't know if we want to talk about trade. But I was looking at some of the items that used to be of trade, in particular related to the horse. So the man Dan gave a horse for the plumage of an eagle. That was a trade, one horse plumage of an eagle. Sometimes the man Dan would give to horses for a feather cap. I don't know what the feather cap consisted of in those days. And then

Aaron Brien:

probably like the same ones on why fish juniors cream man

Shandin Pete:

that had dots apparently also valued a single set of eagle feathers. I'm assuming that's a tail. Yeah. Eagle tail feathers. For one good buffalo hunting horse. That was sort of a trade. And then now I wonder. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, no, no wonder what wonder away. I wonder if those are

Aaron Brien:

like circumstantial in the moment like, yeah, people are trading what was recorded with what they just saw for that deal. Yeah. And then they're kind of recorded as like, Oh, this is what they trade for. But when really it's probably like situational. Yeah, and I kinda like yeah, you know, I would guess stuff ethnographers did, became kind of like gospel for a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah, it did. And there's a lot of tribal people that would never admit that they see some of that stuff as gospel. Like, yeah, read it and be like, This is what we did. And I'm like, I know where you got that. You know, my grandma told me I'm like,

Shandin Pete:

I know your grandma.

Aaron Brien:

Grandma didn't know friend Boaz.

Shandin Pete:

So it has some crow references here to 10 Can weasel skins alone would bring one horse 10 weasel skins. For one horse among the crow.

Aaron Brien:

Well, could be

Shandin Pete:

very well. Skin shirt and leggins. Wait garnished, further garnished with human hair. And porcupine quills was worth one horse?

Aaron Brien:

Hmm. Would people trade their scalps?

Shandin Pete:

I don't know. Maybe this

Aaron Brien:

was someone.

Shandin Pete:

Maybe it was more just trim, you know, like when they were trimming their scalp up to put on a stick. You know, I got that leftover hair. Throw it on a shirt be

Aaron Brien:

very. I mean, your guess is as good as mine when it comes to this, but I also I don't think it was this, like, strict, you know?

Shandin Pete:

No, I'm sure there was some variation. Well, yeah, I mean, you see it today. Yeah. You see a lot of variation. A lot of copying a lot a lot of inter tribal exchanges of styles. Yeah, it's whatever is hot, you know, whatever. Whatever the contest calls for I was what

Aaron Brien:

I was at while runs above and our last episode. Oh, yeah. His daughter sweet 16 birthday party. Oh, Yeah, it was like, round dense. Yeah. Just last week. I stepped outside visiting with a friend of mine. And I was like, you're just talking about whatever is kind of in and hot right now. So like 10 years ago, somebody wanted to trade a ribbon skirt for something, they probably wouldn't have been able to get what you could get now for it.

Shandin Pete:

Am I wrong? You're not wrong, you're not wrong.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah. Are you nervous? Are you nervous of where I'm going?

Shandin Pete:

I'm not nervous at all. Not one bit. Because it's the truth

Aaron Brien:

is driven skirts, all of a sudden, I've taken on this slight miss a call like it is. I mean, they're borderline Amish, you know? Yeah, like, it's good. Yeah, good. I like the idea of occasions where people should dress up out of respect for the moment. You know, I do like that. I like that. Yeah. Just when we kind of adopt this like notion that these things are hold more value than they probably should, you know, right. So we're like, going back to the trade thing. I we tease but I mean, the truth is, is there was a long time there are ribbon skirts are not new. Right. Let's they're not. They've been around for a while. Yeah. As long as the ribbon shirt has been around. Yeah. very least. But we all know that in 1996. Nobody cared about ribbon skirts.

Shandin Pete:

No, not one bit. No, no, not then a variation

Aaron Brien:

of that kind of ribbon skirt idea has been around with like those eastern tribes for man a long time. Hundreds of years, you

Shandin Pete:

know, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Nothing new.

Aaron Brien:

Nothing new. So the value of them. So now if you were to treat them now, you could get far more than you would have got. So I imagined horses and things like that. Yeah. Whole different value. And you know, like, early on when the when the domesticated horse comes around a little more, and that dates debatable. So we're not I'm not going to do that here where I could care less when it came really, but came early. It was of more value, probably.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. No, I believe it. I believe it. Yeah. So whenever these things are recorded, apparently in 1805. Well, here's the date. 1805. Some Salish folks exchanged one horse for 70. Or at Elk teeth. With Yes, you know, like that might be some operational.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, honestly.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. You froze up there. froze up. You're freezing up. You got this weird face. You froze up. You say it again. Say it all over. But you froze up. I can't hear one word you're just saying man. Like

Aaron Brien:

I didn't say anything.

Shandin Pete:

You did as he going off.

Aaron Brien:

I started talking and then you said you froze up so I stopped.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, maybe I was hearing myself.

Aaron Brien:

And I didn't say nothing after that. And then you just kept shaking your head.

Shandin Pete:

Okay, say it again. 60 7080 Lt. lt will say he was gonna say something about it. Turn your camera. turn your camera off.

Aaron Brien:

I don't think I did. It's off.

Shandin Pete:

Okay. Now I'd say it again. One horse, try to start over 6070 elk t 1805 1805. But yeah, that was probably a fair trade. Ah, nice. Saddle horse. Nice little cotton horse maybe 6070 elk teeth? Yeah. I could see that.

Aaron Brien:

I would say so.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the deal, though. This is the deal that you're talking about is this danger that happens? And we've talked about it. I don't know how many times we talked about it. But we see it often. Is this. This idea of the about the past how the past was? I don't know we're not Where did it Where the heck did it? Did it go wrong? Where in the heck did we all think that we were these? Like, I don't know. Some weird, romantic version of what we used to be like we were some. I don't know what you know I'm talking about. Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, yeah. Romanticism. Yes. Oh my,

Shandin Pete:

we talked about talked about it in detail what's going on? Here? All right. What do you see? Well, the your internet keeps timing out, just ask

Aaron Brien:

me ask me straight up?

Shandin Pete:

I don't I don't gotta ask I don't have one. But this is this is it? This is the deal. One, okay, so I get this a lot, I get this a lot and you hear it? It's it's in the literature everywhere indigenous knowledge is going to be the answer to climate change. You see that a lot, right? Like indigenous knowledge is the understanding of from indigenous peoples going to help to save the climate crisis. And you also hear this message too often. That indigenous knowledge is, is, well, we talked about the holistic part, but this one is also always attached on to it. Indigenous knowledge passed on from generation to generation. This, this intricate knowledge of the land passed on from generation to generation. And my first thought always is, well, that was probably true, you know, two 300 years ago, but today, we had, of course, a huge fracture in that in a way that we lived in, we don't really live that way anymore. And our our parents didn't live that way. And maybe even our grandparents, and possibly our great, great grandparents. So then it makes me question and wonder, well, what are they really talking about? What do they want from us? You know, when I talk about indigenous knowledge, and the climate crisis, especially when we're talking about land, land based things, you know, when most of us just sort of live like, the rest of the world does, you know, we we got jobs and we're not out trapping and trade in anymore. You know it. We're not in every day to survive.

Aaron Brien:

What, what do you what are you getting that here?

Shandin Pete:

We're not digging up bushels of bitterroot.

Aaron Brien:

I want you to just come out.

Shandin Pete:

Well, I want to know what you just say it. This is what I wanted, I want to know is how in the heck, how do we how do we get across to our own people? The reality of what, just the reality of things? Because we're because I bet you you put us you put one Indian dude in a room full of white folks, and he's gonna hammer it up, man. He's gonna live it up. Yeah, yeah. All this knowledge we have of the land. All you know, is Yeah, generations and generations ago, I have all of that it's in me, you know? And it keeps going. When you know it needs so if you take something like hunting knowledge, you know, right hunt, hunt, the knowledge of hunting, you know, we jump in a truck, probably and go drive in the mountains and just like any other person, you know, find that find the, you know, the tracks or whatever, follow them and just like anybody else, you know, it's just

Aaron Brien:

you mean you we you know, sit there and communicate with nature to

Shandin Pete:

looking for broken branches, sniffing, sniffing in the needles and looking for the shape of the clouds to guide me to the right, the right ravine,

Aaron Brien:

grandmother Moon guide me to my kill

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, so I I see this disconnect between what people on the outside think about us. And then also sort of how we think about ourselves in relation to that, like, we want to aspire to be that because I don't disappoint nobody. I think maybe I don't know. That's the I don't I don't understand. Well,

Aaron Brien:

well, no, I think I think we say knowledge is passed down. And we always say it's done orally. Yeah, there's a huge portion of our culture in our history in our ritual custom practices that are passed down orally. But if you're going back to being from those times, you're speaking though, most of our knowledge is passed out through practice in culturation. Like doing. Yeah, so this this kind of notion that we're in this constant state of storytelling, man, it's like not true at all. I mean, yeah, there were times of sit down, we're going to tell a story, but most of the time, like, like, just like, if my dad was gonna talk to me like about welding, or some something he was doing, like something he was doing regularly, like, when I was growing up, I'd be sitting there, and it's not like he said, Now, son, I'm going to tell you about welding. Now, he just would say, like, if you want to just like be talking to you and be like, oh, man, that that looks like a pretty good weld. They did. And this is how you get a good weld. This is how you run a good beat. He was sitting there like going Sunday. I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna teach you. I'm going to tell you the story of a good how coyote gave us a good bead. You know? It's just like that. And I don't Yeah, I

Shandin Pete:

don't want you to sit on the floor sun. On I'm gonna sit in this chair. You sit right you have

Aaron Brien:

to give me a like or son dim the light. You get a backhoe son? No, I don't think it was that way. I think that like knowledge amongst your family was a lot of times passed down through practice. And we should never forget this. That practitioners knowledge and non practitioners knowledge, although there's value in non practitioners knowledge, man, that practitioners knowledge is always the one that one you go with? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, and I really learned to, to value this in my time living at flathead, because I can say this, because I don't live there. And I'm not a member just just outside looking in. I noticed that people who are in the culture, what quote unquote, the cultural authorities were always non practitioners. So their, their approach to passing it on or to talking about it was kind of real distant, even in the way they spoke. Yeah. So it was always like we used to do that are they don't do it right, or blah, blah, blah. Not once ever saying like, well, let's just go watch them, do it. The ones that aren't doing it. Let's just go watch him do it and see if it is right. They wouldn't even know if it is wrong. They don't go. Yeah, yes, going off with this kind of weird notion that it's somehow what they're doing is wrong. So I learned to really value the practitioners knowledge, the people who are actually doing now, I'm not saying this is where people would probably misunderstand me is, yeah, you can definitely learn from people who just observed in their life, or who just have stories that were passed down to them, there's still a lot of value in that, boy. Yeah. And in many cases, because of culture loss, that's the only stuff we have. But I also think that's where that's been adopted that kind of like, we sat down and passed down knowledge. And that's partly because the last 120 years has been that and it's had to be that it's had to be the sit down. I'm going to tell you something. Yeah. Not saying that that didn't happen before, but most of the time, the approach is different, you know. So like, for example, like today, we're talking me and some other people, we're talking about the crow story of large boy in spring boy, yeah. When spring boy was thrown into the spring, and he he became a fish, right. So then his dad tells his brother to get some toys, boys toys and put them by the spring and then to prepare a sweat lodge. So they build a sweat lodge. And, and they, they kind of coax the spring boy out of the spring, and they captured him. And this is a long story, but they just did capture him and they throw him into the sweat and the dad pours water on the on the hot rocks to that boy's burned. He's burned and, and. And when he opens the door, he sees that his boy is not official anymore, that is a boy. Now, in that moment, practitioners knowledge was far more value than an oral lesson. That dad didn't say go capture your brother, I'm gonna pass some knowledge to him. I'm gonna sit him down and I'm gonna say, Son, you're not a fish. I don't know why you think you're a fish. This is why we're not fish. This is what coyote Tada. So whatever the thing is, right? He took that, boy, he threw him in the sweat, and he burned his ass. And the truth is, is that sometimes practitioners that the practice of something is the fastest way to learn it, it's the most efficient way to learn it. And I'm sure that Boyd never forgot about the sweat. And he said, if you're ever lost, and you ever don't know who you are, you do what I just did. He didn't tell him to say, Go and ask them for another story. He said, You liked that fire, you hit them rocks up, and you burn the shit out of yourself. Yeah, because the act of doing those things, is preservation in itself. And so when I teach my boys about the sweat, I don't always sit there and go, son, sit by me. I'm gonna tell you the story about this. And this a lot of times, it's just kind of, it's coming out with the with the actions that are happening, you know? Yeah, it's not man. And I imagine that in the past, it was that way. So this idea of romanticism though. And this idea of like telling being the storyteller, I think it's kind of adopted from the non Indian, which is kinda like, the pet store. The collector. Yeah, the person of authority is standing at the front. Yes, the one passing and it's typically a guy, right? Like, it's really ever a woman. Yeah. So I think this idea of holding court is kind of is kind of a foreign concept. And now again, there's no absolutes in native culture. So that means there's definitely times for that, you know, there's definitely times for the, for that part of the thing, but we're talking about the daily man. And, yeah, I just I see it so much in my work in preservation and consultation. And yeah, I see this, like, playing up to that expectation of being that all knowledgeable and being afraid to say, you know, I don't know about that, than we ever told to me. I don't know. I never participated in that. I don't know what that is. Yeah. And like, there's this fear, kind of an anxiety of not knowing.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, yeah, here is,

Aaron Brien:

so what? So if we could just get like Indian people to say like, for one, it's okay not to sell yourself. It's okay. Not to not to know something. You hold value in the knowledge you do have, but you're expected, I think there should be an expectation on all native people to go and seek knowledge. Yeah. What do you do with that? It's not my control. And it's anybody's but I do think we all have a responsibility to say, and you see this, I'm kind of going off. So I'm sorry. But why sorry? Well, I don't know. It's fine. My podcast. Oh, yeah. See, this was Indian names. Because let's just face it like language is we're losing language or losing the practice of using certain things. So kids will get received names. And then we don't hold parents and those children accountable saying that your name, it's your responsibility than to know it. And to learn it. When somebody asks you what your name is, you should be able to say it. No, we don't do that. We just kind of say like, oh, what so and so named me. So they probably know my name, and then just go to them. And there's this constant pushing of responsibility and somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know why that is. And that's just an example. I mean, it we do that with a lot of things. And I think we use excuses for a lot of things. We want the knowledge, the romance and all that, but we don't want the responsibility of practice. And so the ultimate form of preservation is practice is to do it but nobody wants to do that because that requires effort. Correct requires kindness. Yeah. Oh, and that's a tough one man damn were hateful like there's people hateful

Shandin Pete:

Well, yeah, yeah. So right if

Aaron Brien:

you want to Yeah, if you want to be responsible for for ceremonial life, are called For knowledge for sacred object, you have to be a kind person. Now, that doesn't mean there's not a time to be deliberate, there's not a time to hold your ground. But there's an approach that you have to take to those things out of respect for what you're carrying. Yeah. You know, and that varies. I know that varies with tribe and with with object and with rites and ways and things like that. But for the most part, it's all kind of the same. Like, even with old war medicines, they were used to go and fight in battle, but there was a respect for that medicine itself. I'm going to I, I know the power of what I have, I'm going to say nice things to people. Yeah, have A, B, and C, I'm going to think good things. I'm not going to wish bad on people, you have to be nice, you know, I was successful because of this object. I'm going to give now I'm gonna give to people, I was lucky to have this. So I'm going to give things away the redistribution of wealth. The problem, man is our system is so flipped upside down and backwards and inside out that like, there's a fear of cultural responsibility. There's an anxiety that comes with it. And with that, comes an insecurity. And the reaction to insecurity. And fear is always anger. Yeah. So now you have this entire group of people who are culturally insecure, culturally incompetent. And then now their approach to say, hey, that whole generation that I'm talking about, which we call our elders now, yeah, that's them. They don't, I mean, no disrespect, but a lot of them don't know. So when they're approached to know, there's an insecurity in them, so they're the same, you know, I don't know, they feel like they have to step up to the plate. And hyper focus on one or two elements that they do know, and then turn that into something bigger than it is. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, yeah. And, and I feel like that's contributes to the showmanship that contributes to the romanticism. Another thing is that just flat out we were taught it, because when when the dance ban was lifted in the 1930s, late 20s, it was for tourism. Yeah, was for showmanship. Yeah. So so when that we were given permission, so there's an entire generation that pop their kids unknowing that yes, the time you do it is one white folk around. Change stations for when Fourth of July happens? Yeah, whatever, you know, yeah. And so then that generation teaches it to the next and then it becomes once it hits that first generation that man that's it's enculturated. That's heritage now. So now, when a guys like you, and I come along and say like, you know, that's not really the way we do it. How do you argue that when it was their grandparents and our great grandparents that say, Well, my grandparents started this, they taught us this and say, Man, I get what you mean, like, I get what you mean, like you learned from your elders, but the truth is, your elders didn't know a damn thing. And sometimes, neither did mine, right? Yes. That's all hard fact. Yeah, except in this all this work is that we're now in a generation where all of those elements play a part. It's no longer just about, like learning from the pre reservation people. Yeah, our situations are kind of similar. On our races, when, when, in terms of like, the amount of culture loss, or the amount of people and things, some of the demographics for a long time are real similar in both tribes until I would say until within the last 50 years, your reservations change quite a bit. But prior to that, it was very similar, like demographics, socio economic issues and encroachment, because of our dam and our river and because of your dam and your river, real similar stuff happening, you know, yeah, so like, I think a lot of those issues play the same. I kind of rambled and I apologize, but I hope it made some sense, but I just see it a lot. And it bothers me. I feel like we sell ourselves, you know, like, yeah, like, the modern form of tribal prostitution is culture, you know. I mean, I hate I hate to say it, but we do, man, like we play up to that expectation of it. You tell people that we're willing to do it, you know, and fully. I've seen many situations where I've been at meetings and they'll say, Aaron, would you do the blessing before the meeting? And I said, No. Yeah. Because I don't believe in that. Part of it. I believe in prayer for sure. But how we do it at these meetings? I don't believe in that. And there's a reason for it. I have a whole theory behind it. Yeah. But there's never a shortage. There's never a shortage of native people that won't step up to the plate at those meetings that will say, Well Pick Me Pick Me. I'll do it. I'll do it. Oh, yeah. And then it turns into this self aggrandizing thing that they do if they want to. And it's like, Man, I should I'm never going to tell somebody what their beliefs are wrong. But I will criticize approach for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Not saying my approach is right to I'm open to criticism, too. And you have to be some so yeah, it's sometimes it hurts, man. You know?

Shandin Pete:

Your ideas are dumb. Everything. Now was dumb.

Aaron Brien:

I mean, you know, you're, you're probably right. I'm sitting in a hotel room in Bismarck, North Dakota, like. I mean, some of it is, I'm just bored out of my mind, you know? I don't drink I don't gamble. I don't I don't like walking out in the hallway with trunks on. That's the deal breaker right there. So anyway. No way, man, dude, I have some self respect, man. So anyway, that was my rant. And now I want to hear your thoughts. Your thoughts?

Shandin Pete:

Well, I mean, of course, you know, you and I think the same, which is, which is probably not great for, you know, exploring things a whole lot. But I think he broke it down pretty clearly. And the probably the biggest thing is this, that that insecurity. And it causes a lot, a lot of problems, it causes a lot of problems, that fear of not being able to live up to this, this outside idea of what you think he ought to be, and how you ought to know something. And you're completely right, that the response to that insecurity comes out in this sort of dishonest overcompensation of a few things that you know, or maybe the misrepresentation of things you think you might know, and, but the thing is, I don't I don't know, what's, what's the answer? And it's not, it's not easy. It's not a it's not a it's not the, I mean, I don't even know, I don't know. But we as a, as an academic, we're constantly challenged with that idea of, you know, we get it from all angles, well, we want to roll we want to indigenize, the curriculum, we want to indigenize science, we want to, you know, don't want to indigenize all these Gosh, darn things, you know, in most of us, if we're pretty honest about things, we would say, Wow, I didn't know I don't know how to do that. I don't know, I don't know how to do that. But willing to try to try a few things, figure it out. So when you're completely honest with folks on from the outside looking in there, they're kind of a bit baffled, you know, when you say Oh, I don't know. They're like, Oh, man, what I was on a panel in one of the questions, the first question the person asked me was, how do you indigenize the curriculum student, you know, and I looked them right in the face? And I said, Well, I don't know. And they gave me this, like, complete this, this total disappointed look like I thought we were gonna get something out of this Indian guy. And I didn't do this. This is completely deflated, you know? And then so I had to further explain, Well, this is the reason why I don't know. And, and sort of along the lines of everything, you said, there's this, there's been this whole these, these errors in time where things have been extracted from us. The loss of all this, and I tried to hit hit on all these points, you know, when we talk about the transmission of knowledge orally, that, you know, if that was the thing, it's been disrupted completely. You got people who don't practice their ways no more. We just where we live like everyone else. But we live in a certain context that allows us to access that knowledge if we if we so choose, or even to access to what might be left of sort of the things that could produce new knowledge, which was how we're privileged to have access to that, but some of us choose to do it and some of us choose not to do it. That was sort of my answer. And then you got to take that, if you choose to engage in it, then you got to interface it in this odd, odd the structure of of education, which does, it just doesn't clearly fit. But that's that's the job we had to do. But I get a lot, I get a lot of that. Especially when I read any sort of literature about indigenous matters, I try not to be critical of it, because everybody's on their own pathway of learning. And I appreciate when folks are just upright and honest about it. Like, for example, you know, some will say, I'm a reconnecting indigenous person, I don't know these things. I didn't grow up like that, but I'm reconnecting that's alright, I get it. I know where you're coming from, in that way, but some of it is yes. This grandiose and playing up to the to what ought to be? What, what people think they ought to get out of native person. But the answer, that's what I'm looking for, what's the answer? And I kind of step back a bit and think about it very critically. You and try to understand it from the, the minimalist perspective of, I guess, sensory data, you know, what, what do we see, feel hear or touch in is that different than some non Indigenous person? I don't know if it's that different. But I think if you talk about it from a practitioners standpoint, so the, the indigenous practitioner has sensory data about the world that's refined by this advanced understanding of the context in which it's placed in. So this, this person can take data in evidence. And he can pick out the sort of the higher order evidence, the thing that will resolve higher order uncertainty, and they can make sense of the things that they see within within this very particular context. Whereas some outsider don't matter who it is, could be another indigenous person, you know, like, someone who's really good at high 10. And as an example, you know, just to romanticize ourselves some more, you know, it could be anything, though, you know, it could be bookkeeping, I don't know. But they, if they're really good at it, they know everything about it. And when there's a sort of some uncertainty that creeps in, they have the tools, the higher order evidence to untangle it, and make sense of it. That's what I see. That's what I think that's what I see. non Indigenous people think that we can all do that, that we all have access to that. We all employ those tools. And we have this way that we can answer the the climate crisis by just I don't know, like we can, we can just do it, and then we're supposed to do it, you know, it's a string.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, yeah, I forgot we were talking about climate. No, we weren't

Shandin Pete:

given that example, as an example. Okay. Now, just as an example, that's just one example. Well, I guess

Aaron Brien:

you gave a couple of Yeah, with like curriculum to like, there's the answer for the curriculum question, or the answer for the Christ climate crisis are for me, for a lot of my work. It's like, the indigenous approach to archaeology, like, what is that? And it's like, man, you can only put feathers on something for so long before you just say, you know, what it's just archeology is just the idea that maybe we have a different view of the world and like, we're just gonna see shit different. I don't know. I don't know what it is, man. But all I know is like, I can wear a ribbon shirt. I can smudge you off. Like,

Shandin Pete:

you don't go out and do a dig in a ribbon shirt. And then expect to have different results. No, but,

Aaron Brien:

man, but I'm gonna be honest. And I'm gonna get hate for this if people actually listen to our podcast, but that, that's what happens. That's what sold. Yeah, that's what sold to everybody. And it's like, on the one hand, to me, it's like, well, kudos to you, then. Yeah, I'm not going to stop any native person from making money, or from figuring out a way to just to just do it, you know, but yeah, at the same time to you're not going to get me to put on a show for anybody. And it's almost become like my thing, like what people know me for like, Yeah, I like to talk. And I like to visit people. And in the right situation, I will share a lot of things that I've learned over the years. Yeah, and but I'm not ever I don't feel like I'm ever going to put on a show. Now, you're not saying I haven't been a part of that because I know from experience I know from experience where I've been tokenized I've been romanticized. But I've also when I was Well, I won't I'm not even gonna say when I was young because shit man It happens all the time where like you get caught up in the moment, you know what I mean? Yeah. And like but that's definitely not my like approach man to be like I'm going to put a war bonnet on and give a talk. Now we got to we did like you and I, I don't know if you remember this but twice we sang for Roan in high school graduation you remember that? I remember that. Yeah. One time we sang. Just like I think it was like me you and Anton Paul and some other guys are seen and we sign a good man like just hand jumps, stood up saying our tune whatever they'd like the next year. Do you remember? We were Warbonnet? Did Yeah, with Michael fram boys.

Shandin Pete:

I thought that was at law school. Or it was

Aaron Brien:

at the law school thing. Yeah. So maybe one year was? Well, one time was thrown in and one was at the law school. Yeah, but do you remember that? Like, the response was like, way different? Holy shit. Like we were war bonnets. And it was like, and just for the record, I don't even own a war bond. So it's not like, Mike had to borrow me one of his but in the moment, I don't even know why I said we should do it. I think it was like for Native kids or something. It wasn't the law school graduation, was it?

Shandin Pete:

I mean, I thought it was just, yeah, um, I don't know for sure.

Aaron Brien:

Maybe it was, but we sounded good man. To me, to me. Those people didn't appreciate the level of singing, like we sound a good. Like, they're just looked at the Warbonnet. And they're like, Oh, my God, the word bond is, you know, and I'm like, I don't know, that might have been the last time where I like, did something like that. That's yeah, that was over 10 years ago, wasn't it?

Shandin Pete:

That was quite a while ago, might even been more than 10 years ago.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah. And like, that's the closest thing I can remember to doing something like that. Yeah, I'm sure I've done it like in other people's perspectives, where they're like, oh, what one time one of my relatives accused me of being a show off. They're like, you always like to show off. And then my cousin was standing next to me. And he was like, you're talking about this guy? Because you're talking about like, kind of the Indian thing. And I'm like, Yeah, I might meet as like me. And they're like, yeah, and he was like, You don't know him then dude. Because he's like, the anti like, he'll shut you down. If you're trying to, like, do that kind of stuff. He's like, I'll walk off. I've walked out of rooms, while on the show started. I'm like, No, dude, I'm not doing this. Not because I'm righteous. But sometimes they're like, real cringy Oh, yeah. And I just can't do it. It's kind of like to be like, watching native rappers, like I just can't. Native. I just get like, it's like, man, more power to you. If that's your Yeah, you're into that. But like, I have a real hard time with it. Oh,

Shandin Pete:

how many words rhyme with frybread? Oh, I

Aaron Brien:

know. And per capita check, you know, it's like, I just can't do it. So

Shandin Pete:

I put a check. Rub your neck Oh, you're going off, man.

Aaron Brien:

I know. I'm sorry. Stop, reel it

Shandin Pete:

in. Reel it in. Now, it's really it's true man. And the you know, the the answer is just through and I don't know, I don't know a better word. But I don't mean what I how I'm saying it, but through through education is how it changes, but not education in a formal sense. But education back in what you said at the beginning in the in the practitioners sense. You know, to I know under there's a group of people in there, they're never under radar. They they never post videos of themselves doing stuff on on social media. They don't, you know, put the Twitter posts that says I'm excited to announce that I'm doing such and such whatever. They just do it and they don't. They don't really not concerned. They're in a way that sort of a jokey wording on now. They're humble about it. They do it. And if you ask them about it, they tell you, they invite you to do it with them. They don't and there's never expectation that you have to give them anything is this just this plain value of wanting to to pass along the truth, but those people are few and seem like in very far between. Because it takes time you know, to be a practitioner in something takes time in it, you don't need to write a grant for it. You don't need to create an LLC for it. It's it's it's part of your life, you know, it's part of your life. That's

Aaron Brien:

yeah, what you're describing to me is like when we when we had John John on the podcast, and when we were doing the IRC stuff back then and yeah, and he came and talked us, though his approach was that, like, when it came to culture is like, at the end of the day, you got to just do it. Yeah. The grants, the incentives, the all that that comes later, like, if it is comes at all, yeah, but at the end of the day, you're doing it because that's your people. That's your belief. Yeah. And I feel like the approach to preservation of language and stuff. Yeah, it's kind of this, like, catch all thing. Now, let's just do it. Let's just do it, you should get involved. When it's like, you know, at the end of the day, though, it comes down to people, you have to believe in that, that you have to say, that's my way, that's the way I am. I'm doing this because it makes me whole, or whatever the thing is, you know, and we've almost, we've turned like culture and language into like, rehab too. So like, it's supposed to fix everything. And so now it, it's like a turn off for people, you know, yeah. Man that I don't I mean, it culture is there. To use it. It needs to be used in all situations, but like, it's kind of like, if you grew up in your parents always threaten you with the cops, you know, I'm gonna call the cops on you. Or I'm gonna, you put a claim that you're not listening, I'm gonna go the godson like, then you you're 16 years old, and you don't like the cops, and you know, you've never even had an interaction with them. So like, a culture is the same way. Like we use it to like discipline. We never say like, well, this is also how you thrive. You know, like this, is these these these are tools? Not Not for any one reason, but for all reasons. And yeah, like when we talk to crows, we'll talk about the sweat lodge or the pipe or whatever, they'll say, dimia dimia. That was the dimia and that the sweat is for survival. This is how I survive, or was it dimia This or if it's the BiPc in Chad dimia or whatever, you know, whatever that is, that's, that's, we don't just say like, it's not a recreation, like, how we treat it now. It's not a trade you learn at school.

Shandin Pete:

One on one. Yeah. And

Aaron Brien:

that's almost we've almost turned it into that, you know, yeah. And so of course, of course, the result is going to be this highly disconnected people who just use it for like, utilitarian for like, monetary reasons and like, everyone's a goddamn artist now and fashion designer. I mean, I know that's harsh, but like, at some point, don't you got it, you should know how to beat because your kids need to be dressed. That's nothing to do with. It has nothing to do with me one to like, put my shit on display or whatever it is, you know, it's and then if you could do that, man more power to you, but you can't be a badass beater. And then your kids have wax shit. You know what I mean? It's gotta be about them.

Shandin Pete:

Got this real nice, baby Yoda medallion. But my kids got some pleather mark.

Aaron Brien:

Can we stop with the Nike swishes, man. Wait, it is

Shandin Pete:

2023 to

Aaron Brien:

get it we get it you like it man. Like what shit man? Like I don't want to see a 40 year old man with a big old Nike medallion. If you ain't sponsored by them, I need you to settle down on the advertisement.

Shandin Pete:

You're carrying some hate today. This felt like a like a therapy session for you. I'm not on your chest. Dude, I'm

Aaron Brien:

on when I'm on when you let it

Shandin Pete:

all out, man. That's yeah, I'll stop. Oh, no, no, there's more than there is and it's more than it's this. Yeah,

Aaron Brien:

I'm a hater

Shandin Pete:

Well, no, it's it's frustration. You know, there's a level of frustration. And it comes down to how you want to. Well, I don't even know if it's this. You know, you think about the The things the things that you love to do the, the cultural things that, that you do that follow a tradition that you're trying to, that you'd like to see. Continue on. And, you know, there's a lot of people who are, who engage in that, and they're, they're part of it, they're part of that belief. And that happens, it's in that sort of, in the undercurrent of, of indigenous life, you know, you know, you know, the people, you know, then people would, because you talk and you talk about the same things, sort of the same issues keep arising in, but what's on the surface, that's where I think where we have trouble. And it causes sort of causes some trouble for us in a way through through misrepresentation. And so the work that, that we're sort of getting asked to do like you and your work with historic preservation, that stuff gets in the way, it muddies it up. And in my line of work and education, academics, you know, there's always have to do some, some repairing of ideas. And, you know, I what I think it does, I think this is one of the most damaging things that I think anyway, is it causes this great separation between between, like non Indigenous and indigenous people, they get this idea that, because they read it or can consume it all the time is that we're so vastly different in the way we think and do things that we have, we have this sort of special gift and power ends up in some way. And when people buy into that, then they begin to start, they start to act differently from other people. But in the end, and the thing I always try to fight back on is that no, we're not that different. We're all just playing all humans, our brain chemistry, and everything, and art, or Oregon's are all the same. And we have an ability to think in many different ways, not just holistically and linearly, we employ all these, all these assets in the brain, to understand the world. But I think the only difference that we did that we do have, and this goes across across any cultural group is context, the context of which in which we employ all those human skills, somewhat different. And so all that stuff on the surface kind of gets in the way it gets in the way it puts this image in the minds of people on the outside of how we ought to be and how we ought to act. So the practitioners, yeah, I mean, they don't get considered much in the progress of indigenous things. Not all the time, but oftentimes, it can get ignored. But I think they don't care. I think that's where they want it to be. They're not concerned with interfacing with any of those things. That they're there. They don't overlap. They're that the non overlapping magisteria. Oh, if you remember that discussion? Yeah. So that's the thing. So it creates this frustration, and I get it. And it's something that we have to manage? You know, and we have to say, Okay, well, yeah. You know, at least they're doing something or Oh, yeah, that's good that, you know, the least they caught on this few things. But, you know, now they're kind of bragging about it. And that's not cool. But whatever, you know, who am I to say? So when does that stop? When does it stop? When does it become our responsibility to tell somebody Hey, knock it off? Quit doing it? I don't know.

Aaron Brien:

I don't know, man. We're so sensitive,

Shandin Pete:

man. Yeah. So since but I think this podcast is

Aaron Brien:

some avenue to that. Like, I mean, these aren't just our views or personal views, but I think they come from a really relatable aspect. Yeah, like, you and I, I mean, I think we were always given some sense of culture, but to say that you and I both came from ultra traditional families, and that we were just kind of born into like, a bunch of shit. Well, that'd be false, man. Lilly, you had to learn how to sing. I had to learn how to sing. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like I had lined up 15 uncles that were all champion singers. In this scenario. I'm going to teach you I had to put the effort in I had to learn how to sing. And I can honestly say that I've seen with some of the best singers around and I've I've I've been accepted in a lot of ways by them you know, and they never once said like, oh, you weren't you didn't you weren't born with a drumstick you know? It's like well shit we're not all like well, like wall runs above when it comes to single was very privileged, but he knows And you could tell he has an appreciation for it, like, take it for granted. And so, to me that's different. So when he starts talking about this stuff, it's not like a showmanship thing. Like you could do there's there is an appreciation for it. Yeah. But it's also like when it comes to that world, that's what he knows. And yeah, I would not questioned him over other people. So I think our podcast, in a lot of ways can be a civil approach to people hearing at least a perspective that will make them question their own. Yeah. And

Shandin Pete:

yeah, I think

Aaron Brien:

I, I, I've been very fortunate when it comes to like, not only crow ceremonial life, but like, even like your people. Blackfeet people, I've gotten to see a lot of things that most people don't get to see. And it wasn't because I was selling out. I think it was because I was being who I am. Yeah. And I think people ultimately appreciate that. Yeah, and so in, they just, I was real fortunate people just took me and said, Come on. Yes. All right, you know, and I never once was trying to be like, the center of attention, or like, Oh, give me the songs. I want those songs or show me how to do this. No, man, I just kind of went along for the ride and learned what I could and, and to say that those things have an effect my life would be like a lie, you know, so. But I had to learn it. From nothing. It took effort it took having to stand there and wait, having to set up chairs, having to start fires for people and having to cook meat having to just be the peon or the Gopher, and I just loved it. I just enjoyed it. I liked being out there. I like being around those kinds of people. And eventually they're gonna say, hey, come sit over here. Come sit by me over here. Pretty soon. You're either in the front but that's never like the goal. Like but it just seems to be like

Shandin Pete:

your brown nosing.

Aaron Brien:

Earning Yeah, maybe brown nosing. I don't know. But I never started saying oh, I want to I want to Yeah, different dance. So I'm gonna kick someone's ass. It was really just like, yeah, every time I'd see people I'd visit them and act normal, like just normal. Eventually, they're an airline. They're like, come up, you know, come up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like yeah, I think that's what people at the end of the day so people got to do. You got to put your pride away. And you got to start from the bottom like everybody else. And just like any sport to like, you wrestled you wrestled for a long time you're not born shooting a double leg takedown like not us you know, you have to get smashed a lot before you're good at it.

Shandin Pete:

You might never be

Aaron Brien:

and you might never be good at it. You got to accept but you might you might learn that that outside singles your jam or an ankle picks your jam but it starts with that blast snowball like you got to learn it you got to learn to change levels and shoot Yeah, but it how you learn it's not for you as you're gonna get smashed like you're gonna get smashed that's it it's okay not to know people. It's okay not to know.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, that's the message man. It's okay. If you don't know and you're just learning and that's cool. But don't don't exploit don't let them them crazy ways sneak in you know where you feel like you and it's it's part of what happens to you know where someone learns a little bit and then all sudden they're they're using that as a tool to shame other people you know? Like oh, I know this now I'm gonna put it out there shame other people for not knowing it because a call ca easy it is a couple how much I know man you get me on negative to God dang it. Got me talking I'll go I'm getting frustrated

Aaron Brien:

guess

Shandin Pete:

what, wait a minute. Before we end I want to let's do a little Patreon shout I can put on the end here. Okay, do it. So I'm gonna go through this list of our Patreon sponsors. Starting from the bottom. We got Rachel holster. Man. With us four cents. 2021 beginning of 2021 helping the show out. We've got more Xena j with us also since 2021. I read that right. Yeah. You know, you know any of those folks.

Aaron Brien:

Rachel, Rachel follows me on my indigenous archaeology.

Shandin Pete:

Nice day shout out. Shout out. Give her a shout out.

Aaron Brien:

Hey man. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah, some of you

Shandin Pete:

that is heartfelt. Ryan Swanson. Ryan Swanson has been with us since 2020. December. Cool. It's awesome. He stuck with us a long time. We've got some new ones. Some new folks. We got Jacob, Jacob. I think Knutson after correctly. But cool that just met up here in Vancouver. Pretty cool guy. had a little chat come visit. brought over some gifts, that little exchange of ideas. So yeah, shout out to Jacob out there. Keeping it real. He does some good weaving. Finger weaving. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

Nice Weaver.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, I got that we've that deadly we've. Okay, Julian Peterson with us since December 2020. To read on, you know, Julian, Julian Peterson.

Aaron Brien:

He might be one of my indigenous archaeology followers. That name sounds familiar.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, yeah. I know who this is. I think we had a couple chats on the Instagram. I think Oh, him. So he might be one of your maybe? Well, I don't. I don't think we've met. We've had some chats. And I think even gave some commentary on some of our shows. My ideas, etc. Right on Julian. I think Jason free oz. I think that's how you say it. FREIHAG. I don't know how to say that. I think that's right. Since March 2022. Right on Pardner Paard. And then, Heather. So Brett bene, I think I'm saying that right. I don't know. Send me a message. Let me know. With us since December 2022. Yes, sir. Then a longtime sponsor, of course, Mr. Lafave since November of 2020 Oh, holy cow. That's awesome, man. Thank you longtime sponsors. Yes. Longevity. Longevity means a lot. It means a lot. Tearing up. Now I'm not anyway. Amber. Amber weasel head. My assistant cousin, April 2023. pitching in awesome. She does some art work there. If you can look her up online. Maybe throw a few dollars her way. Amber weasel hit Google her up. And then of course, we've got Louella Louella be? I'm assuming that's a brand. Because that's what email?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah. Thank you, Lulu. She

Shandin Pete:

works for me. Just texting you.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, she's texted me a picture of a dog with a Carhartt jacket on

Shandin Pete:

crepes. She has been with us since December. 2022. On and off.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah. Even been a guest. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Somewhat almost like a co host. Even an episode or two?

Shandin Pete:

Yes. tried it out? Yeah. Yeah. Since 2022. Then we got some. Let's see another one. A brand new, fairly new January 2023. Dylan shields rat on pardner. Right on helping out this pretty good. And then our last Patreon sponsor, Travis Davis, with us since February, since February 2021. Really helping out man. He's this guy. I don't know. I don't know. But he's been really sticking with us. But that's what we got. That's pretty good. Nice, man. Thanks, everybody. And if you're interested in being a sponsor course, click on the Patreon link. Yeah, all those kinds of things. That's cool. helps out. Cool, man. Damn.

Aaron Brien:

Good work. You guys are helping us.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. All right. We're out. All right. Talk to you later.

People on this episode

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Aaron Brien

Host
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Shandin Pete

Host