Tribal Research Specialist: The Podcast

#40 - "Thoughts and Prayer": Untangling vague and specific modes of supplication

• Aaron Brien, Shandin Pete • Season 2 • Episode 40

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In this episode we discuss an important component of Native reality.  Prayer is a unique endeavor in Tribal life that continues to thread through nearly all processes that are deemed important. We discuss some of the recent stereotypes and romantic expressions while reflection on our own experiences and understanding of the process of wish-making. 

As always, thank you for listening!

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

Episode Sponsor: Wyld Gallery - Austin Texas

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Shandin Pete:

This is an exactly the intro that I thought it was. What I do Oh, I switch the names Alright, here goes this is the market pretty much but we're gonna listen

Aaron Brien:

to this place it's all in what No, no. Engage guys up. No No What is this? What did I do? Just what is this song is there?

Shandin Pete:

I grabbed the wrong one I can change that real quickly. There's a song and I put a lot of work into the song Not this one isn't the one

Aaron Brien:

apparently not that much happened.

Shandin Pete:

Where did those sabers leak? This is pushing where's it all right. I know that god darn it. What a dunce Oh,

Aaron Brien:

if you get here the first 10 minutes of every podcast before we read the stuff we published you would have never been reminded

Shandin Pete:

that you drink on

Aaron Brien:

a sunny, sunny D. Your drink?

Shandin Pete:

Oh yeah. That's 102 that's Tang. That's pretty much yes, space food. Space

Aaron Brien:

man. Look at my cool little box or box.

Shandin Pete:

Check it out. Hulu going to do some meetings this is plum sacred.

Aaron Brien:

I know. It mean to start to show off with a flex

Shandin Pete:

I hope you smudge that. Well. I did. In and out. What direction was you facing?

Aaron Brien:

I was facing the direction of the rising sun

Shandin Pete:

that's the thing though. Like, like if, if your thing is to pray to the sun. You're not necessarily facing due east? It'll vary. vary by the year.

Aaron Brien:

By the year time of year. Yeah. Yeah. So I call into question all this nonsense about the east. Yeah, I call into question right now.

Shandin Pete:

I'm an added to that. Yeah. So So remember, you remember the the thing of setting the teepee up so that door faces the East. But what time of the year? And when you set it up? You know how do you so I think that idea of the Easton? No, it gets stuck in a time. Somebody said something about one time. Maybe it was written in famous book or some?

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, I definitely think that, um, the facing the east thing. For sure. It's like a part of kind of the general sense of a tribes belief. But according to the crow, you can offer a prayer I guess. I like using the phrase wish making because yeah, prayers, kind of like this kind of cadence, like a certain type of verbiage or a more traditional CRO person might make a wish to something. And right, but that could be a mountain. It could be a tree. It could be a hill, it could be a storm. It could be the sun could be the moon could be the wind. So you would face whatever it is you're making your wish to.

Shandin Pete:

Right. Which makes sense. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't turn your back to it. So making a wish to something inanimate, inanimate, for lack of a better word,

Aaron Brien:

lack lack of size, the lack or lack thereof. Fond du Lac

Shandin Pete:

still my kid he wanted to write some words in cursive says thrown smart ones at him, you know? So right geomorphology so we'd write it. What does that mean that tell them? They want another word says the right anthropocentric. Oh, what does that mean? He writes it so we'll just look it up. So it comes back he says it means human centered. He said, What's human centered? I just anything that is in about and for the purpose of humans, I guess I don't know. He throws these hard ones at me we have to answer to the very definition of things. But yeah, so this thing you're talking about wishing. So what Okay, let me go back to bed. What's what what's the difference between wishing and praying and because you said prayers like a cadence or like a risk Reese reset recipe to add, he said, re citation is that a word? Resuscitation recitation, reciting

Aaron Brien:

recitation, recitations were popular country songs. I never like yeah, recitation is like Luke The Drifter, Hank Williams. He would like just talk over like, oh, like, oh,

Shandin Pete:

oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so you're saying prayers like there? What do you got there? You're holding up an old it looks like and Kelly those buttons, man. Those are like, like when you go take that hearing tests when he was in school. And they got those weird headphones they put on you that go right into your ear. Then they play the big old tape recorder. And they got the record button. As little red button right in the middle of the play button. Remember those?

Aaron Brien:

Yep. Sketchy business. There it is. Yeah, you

Shandin Pete:

could easily fudge up and hit record when you intend to just press play. Anyway, so yeah. Okay. Tell me. Tell me about this. So this is the question. If you told me this, when I would ask. Well, what's the difference? Besides the recitation? I don't know. I still don't think that's a word. break you. See, the fact that you can't say it puts into question your credibility as a human as a human centered endeavor.

Aaron Brien:

I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. Gotta find something first. Okay. Okay. I get ahead of myself. Alright.

Shandin Pete:

Don't get ahead. Because I think I know, but I'm just trying to peel it out to you for the listeners. The wish versus the prayer. This is important because it's going to build up to what we're talking about. Well, which got there. Can hear it? Well? No, it's not coming in. Well, you must get an noise noise cancel on your microphone because it's blocking it out.

Aaron Brien:

I found a Red Bull tape like old power tape. Really? Yeah. But anyway, well, we can talk about this. I just wanted to show up on tape player.

Shandin Pete:

You get that basement of the basement of the dentist. Big

Aaron Brien:

dentist. Well, Tim Tim my my buddy Tim has a pod tapes from my pod meetings. Yes. I think those lots of them. Pod guys and all them. Do they have tape players because they want to listen to a lot of old pod tapes. Oh, yeah. So I found all these power tapes and recordings and yeah. And I said, Hey, you got a tape player. So I said, Yeah, so like, I got a black whistle tape.

Shandin Pete:

Like the Studio One. Yeah. 95 Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Aaron Brien:

I mean, yeah, we gotta quit. Yeah, yeah, quick sidetrack. I will get inside.

Shandin Pete:

I was gonna go off on it because I got it. I got a sack of tapes from my dad. All these old tapes, not old but as in 40s 50s 60s These are like power, the power era 70s and 80s Yeah,

Aaron Brien:

that's still some some Cherokee Lake. Ah, yeah. All the lakes cathedral Lake.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, back when Black Lodge was they were the kids were just, you know, in their pre teen ages. You know? That that kind of that kind of music Oh, it was really high, you know? Anyway. Yeah. Even though I

Aaron Brien:

know I can't even do it again, I can go. Whoa, whoa, girl.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. So if you can sing in the sound like it's coming out of a phonograph, you're doing really good to reproduce the 70s. You can even replicate like, it's where it slows down a bit. Yeah, that's that's the seventh.

Aaron Brien:

This, this tape says round dance night. April 5 2000 to

Shandin Pete:

April 5 2002. That's 20 years old. That didn't seem old. But it is the writing on that tape that makes it look pretty old. But when you say 2002, that feels like a couple of years ago. Anyway, get back to this question. Am I now Quit stalling.

Aaron Brien:

Alright, ask the question.

Shandin Pete:

Alright. Prayer versus a wish. Now you said prayer. Is this more of a formal or I didn't quite get what you said anyway. But the wish is, you're asking something physical thing of the earth? Because it's important to understand this of the earth. Like you said, rock storm tree this would the sun be part of that? Wish? I would think okay, good. Good. All right. So then the prayer anything? All right. Yeah. I mean, you don't get a handbook that says

Aaron Brien:

the only thing I think that would be different is is the pipe. So the pipe, you're not making wishes to the pipe? You're using the pipe? for that? So it's it's a Yeah, it's a it's a beacon, you know?

Shandin Pete:

The telescope and the tools, the tool? Yeah, it's,

Aaron Brien:

it's a tool. So. Okay, so, before I start, I'm not an expert at any of this. Yeah, I'm just kind of going off of what I see what I what. I don't say what I feel because that sounds cheesy. Because who the hell cares? What I feel? Yeah, so like, so like, a prayer to me has a certain form to it. Like there's a form to it. First of all, you acknowledge some like something so the Creator of all things right? Then you talk about how pitiful you are. And then how undeserving you are of something. Then you say, how thankful for you? You are for all these things? Like food, shelter? Yeah. Maybe moisture and I don't know, you know, if you're a farmer probably like, then then and then you go and ask for that creator of all thing to just do it. Well, yeah. And then you'll say you'll ask for protection of your family typically. Yeah. And then you'll end by by the acknowledgement of that thing, whatever it is you're praying to and then that's it. That seems to kind of be this Yeah. Running standard. I'm not against that. Like it like everybody else has raised praying that way right? Where I have trouble with it is that my prayer has no it's of no consequence to the creator for me to tell the Creator to do its will it's gonna do it's gonna do its will with our without my prayer.

Shandin Pete:

Right right. Right. So

Aaron Brien:

we're just like God, just do your will just pray to you today. We just ask you to do your will. I mean, yeah.

Shandin Pete:

Is it Is that what they call them? placating that the word? placating

Aaron Brien:

bad news and some begins tonight. Well, I'm just

Shandin Pete:

curious, like, like, you hear it, you you hear it in these old ethnography or anthropological texts, you know, they placating their gods with their offering of corn or something. placating their gods with the offering of flesh. You know, yeah, that's what it sounds like, you know, placating the up Is this will that's going to happen no matter what, in hopes to? Yeah, some way more favorable?

Aaron Brien:

Well, I don't even know if that prayer, that standard form of praying even does that. Okay. I don't even know. It just seems like ah, yeah. So I go back and forth on the pitiful thing. Yeah. We've talked about this before. Yeah. In private, where we kind of go in we do this, like, I'm paid for. nothing without you. And then sometimes I think, like, like, I can imagine God or the creator saying, Why didn't make you that way? Yeah, but here, we're, we're kind of thinking like, we have this thought of like us having to be pitiful to be pitiful in order to talk to the, to the Creator. So that's why I feel like this idea of intercessors are not even intercessors. Because intercessory implies that this object or this weather phenomenon is a messenger, it's a messenger to God, when that's not. If you really go back to a lot of, especially in our region here, a lot of the beliefs of our people, they're not messengers were actually they actually possess the power we're seeking. Right, right. Would I be correct in thinking that? No, I

Shandin Pete:

think you're right. Yeah, you are correct. I'm gonna take the think you right out of it and say you're correct. Okay.

Aaron Brien:

All right. So what time I heard this person say, talking about something, I think like a medicine bundle, or the sun or something, we don't pray to the sun, we pray through the sun, or through the bundle. And I used to kind of like, subscribe to that way of thinking until I started actually going around these things more. And I realized, no, they asked that thing for something like the Sunday look right at the sun and asked the sun for something. Yeah. You know, it's not like Hey, son, can you go tell God? Yeah, it's you know, it's not. Yeah, the last don't ask the son for whatever. This is our Yeah. are that are a bird are a buffalo or? Yeah, something like that. So. Um, so when you really think about, we'll just generically use the term prayer for tribal people the wish idea? Yeah. Is more specific.

Shandin Pete:

Okay. Well, let me go back to this before we get to the wish. Let me talk about this prayer thing. And what you said was, yeah, it was. So. So this is the form. And the right you hear this a lot. And you hear, I mean, it's, it's familiar. Acknowledge it to acknowledge the thing that you're you're praying to, it's what you said, tell it, tell it, tell it to your pitiful. Tell us you're thankful for what you've had gotten so far, then the ask, but now I want or can I have these things, whatever not can I have? Then you say thank you, or whatever. But the pitiful part. Now this is, let me let me ask you this part about being pitiful. So to get into a state of being pitiful, would be one way of achieving your desired wish. Agree, disagree. So I'm thinking about fasting, right? So you get into a state where you're pretty low. You get yourself really low.

Aaron Brien:

I go back and forth on this too, because I feel like this is also misrepresented. Yeah. This way of thinking that the said we fast so we become pitiful, and that the spirits are God will take pity on us. Yeah. So I, I out openly say that I believe that. Yeah, but I've questioned it several times only because I've heard stories, old stories about things about these kinds of things. And what it is, to me, it's more like payment for something. Yeah, yeah. So there is the result is the same. But if I'm going to go and sit and fast and ask that mountain for some time, I look granite, that big mountain and I'm gonna say you're, you're strong. I want my wishes for me to be like, like you or something. And in order for me to get what I'm asking of you, I'm going to pay for it by suffering here, or I'm going to pay for it by cutting the tip of my finger. I'm gonna pay for it by cutting my arm. Yeah, but that payment can happen in other ways too. Your payment can simply just be If you do, give me my wish, I'll come back here next year and sit for days, right? Or you might say, if, if, if that happens, I'll feed my community. And you might have meat, good meat, and you'll have a big feed as payment for what it is you're asking for. Yeah, that we're speaking real general. Yeah, I can a real general sense. But um, I think that's very different than then then somebody suffering to God takes pity on you. And the only reason I have kind of changed my mind on some of this is I was visiting with this guy a few years ago. And he said that one time, a relative of his came to him, and asked him to pray. And he said, Okay, I'll go and fast and pray for you guys, and you're sick relative. He says, I went there thinking, I'm going to pray until that person's good. So I'm gonna suffer for that person. Yeah. And he said, I realized, now I had done it wrong. He told me, he said, What I should have said to them was, okay, I'll make a wish right now. He didn't say to the son, he just kind of said, I'll make a wish to something. And I'll say, if someone saw is healthy by the spring, then I'll go and fast for days. Because he said, Yeah, what if they never would have they never got healthy? And I would have sat up there. And I would have to go back every year, every year until they're healthy. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

I remember you telling that story.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah. So it's kind of kind of the use the key. And this is real detailed, you know, so like, people have to pay really pay attention to their ceremonies, or even the way people speak. Yeah. Because like that, you're not going to notice, because on the outset, it looks cultural, it's all on par for your culture. But you have to really step back and notice like, the the first that the vow they're making, that has a lot to do with that person's level of traditionalism. Right, so like, he might say, I'm gonna go up there, and I'm gonna pray to God. Say, Okay, you can do that. Yeah, but what exactly are you asking for? That might determine what you want, when you want to pray to the thing you want to ask for? So a good example, is those old warriors, they used to like medicines for war, power, spiritual power. So some, some of them like to ask wishes have storms. Yeah, so they would have the power of the storm to make bad weather. So like, when they're escaping the enemy, they could make it storm or, like that kind of thing. So you got to know what you're asking for, in order to use those elements of creation and the power that those those elements have. An end end it is also the belief that you can piggyback off of somebody else's power. So like, say, you go and fast you receive a medicine and I know you have this particular medicine. So then I would go to you and say, Hey, this is going on with me right now. I want to have a meal feed you feed your medicine, and ask good things from your medicine. And you say, Okay, we'll do that on the next whatever, whatever, whatever your protocols are, that are thing, because I might look at you and say, Man, this guy has the dress is good, he looks good. His horses are healthy, you know, kids look good, they're healthy, his, his wife has a good home is sort of things I'm looking for. So whatever he has, I want some of that. So I'm gonna go to him and tell him, I'm going to give him some gifts. And then he might open his medicine for me, and then I can make wishes for that. That's real specific. Right? So might even argue that I'm sharing too much. But it all goes back to this. I'm not saying specifics anyway, about people's things. But yeah. What I'm saying is, that's very different. It's a very different outlook of a religion, and how religion is used, versus this kind of generic, pseudo Christian approach to our own beliefs. And I would even say that most traditionalists now I have adopted the cadence and the rhythm and the verbiage of the Christian church, even if they're not Christian people. And I'm actually getting to the point in my life where I don't even care if someone's Christian Christian. It's, I could think they could ask good things from for me in that one. Yeah, so I would That's never stopped me from going to someone I know is a devout Christian. We know our good buddy Kenny pretty on top Yeah. Nobody would deny that. He's He's a believer. Yeah, praise hard. So I would definitely go to him and say, Hey, I got this going on. I want you to pray for him. Yeah. Well, yeah, you know. So it's not a matter of be being like a hater on somebody else's religion. It's just Yeah, pro pro crow or whatever that person is, you know, so. So that. So that's that idea of prayer, and this and asking for good things or asking for something. So prayer versus wish making to me is very different. In actually the wish making concept, even if other tribes don't use that phrasing, wish making. Yeah, that's what they're doing. Especially in our area, our region, would you say? That's the case?

Shandin Pete:

I think so. You kind of went off there. I don't want to stop you because you're on a roll, man. You went off? No, I mean, I mean, no, that's good. Because so so I just want to clarify, step way back. Way back. Yeah, you should be sorry. Okay. So we're talking about being pitiful? And I said, Yeah, so some people think that, that lowering yourself to a state of pitiful illness, and get you rewarded. But I think you're I think you're right, in a lot of ways where it's not necessarily. I mean, it looks like someone might be doing that, you know, they're just gonna get all raggedy and pitiful. But I think that's a different thing. You know, that's like part of mourning while you're, you're letting yourself kind of go because you're, you're sad. But this other thing we were talking about, about fasting, whatever these things are these things that you have to do it, they're more of, like you said, they're more sacrifices, like you're paying, you're making payment, to receive something. And that happens in many forms, as you've mentioned, in many different ways, and have to be careful on how somebody is going to help you in that manner. Because their commitment to helping you and sacrificing could be I guess, the wording of it has to be you have to choose very carefully. So then the wish. So now this is all those that was all kind of part of the prayer, right? Praying. But we're saying it might come from this. adopted from this way of praying that comes from some other religion, whatever, whatever. So another wish, wait, okay, let me step back. So the prayer then, that some people might want might wonder, so Well, what do you what do you what are you praying to? under that circumstances? Is that a, is that a god? Someone might say? No, I'm thinking of like some non Indigenous non Indian folks. And what what are you what are you praying to? Under those circumstances? What is what is the Creator? Or what is this thing where you employ this manner of praying? Now, we're not talking about wishing we already said that was might be something different. But if you're talking about prayer, who are what is that? Because I know in the old way, in the old way, in honor, kind of some of the Salish beliefs, there's mostly praying to the sun. That was the that was the thing. But there was this other thing to the person who sits on top of the mountain. That was another thing. But I don't know if that was that came in at some other time. In, in the early history, but the original the principal thing that prayer was to the sun.

Aaron Brien:

I still argue if it's even prayer, though, right? We were using that term prayer. But I think I think petitions are wish making is probably a better verbiage only because, yeah, it's a hard sell. Because we're bought, we've bought into this idea, the word of prayer, and I get it, and I use, I use it, I use the word but I would, I would argue that what the Salish were doing was not praying, it was more leaning on that idea of making a petition or, or spiritual reciprocity. In trade for something I'm asking for this. I'm going to give you this. And I would assume that although the sun Yeah, is probably seen as the supreme energy source and being I would, I would also make the argument that the Salish word is Well, looking at different elements, whether there are medicine objects are, are certain landscapes, spiritual things. Yeah. Beans and making wishes to those things are praying to those things for again, I think it depends on the reason.

Shandin Pete:

That's right. And that I think that's I'm getting to because you're right, it wasn't, there wasn't just one mode of asking for something that'd be kind of that restricting. It'd be restricting If you just had one pathway to receiving some power, like you said, there was, there was many needs in the in those times. So you needed many attributes to help you with those things. Like you said, for war. Yeah, you want to be able to call in a storm. So what's gonna give you that? Well, the thing that's manifesting that storm, which is thunderclouds or what have you, you know. So you're right. I mean, yeah, that's, I think that's pretty common, though the thinking and the thoughts of your people were very similar to the thinking and the thoughts of ours. But we get hung up on this thing. And I think they're one in the same. The prayer and the wish, I think they're one in the same because if think about it, think about all the things that you've ever prayed for. They're all wishes, like you're wishing for something, and keep praying for someone to feel well, I pray for me to feel well, I pray for this guy's kid to be well, I pray for, you know, him to keep his job or them to, you know, have a good house, that our wishes are all just wishes of something that manifests here on Earth. That's that's what it is. So I, for me, I don't see a big difference between, like, just the term in English prayer, no and a wish. I think they're kind of one the same. But I think the manner the pathway to that. That idea that you're talking about the prayer is this kind of Con is it was conscripted as as conscripted?

Aaron Brien:

I don't know, man did you?

Shandin Pete:

Know, you say that a lot. So I thought a biggie I figured you'd know, conscript script.

Aaron Brien:

Never said that you've said instructed on scripted in my life. I would say I would say you're right. Like when tribal peoples traditionalist, they're talking when they say, Oh, we're gonna pray for this. I think they're saying the word prayer, but what they're really saying is this other thing? Yeah, it's, it's, you know, if you were to go to like a Catholic church, and they say, you're gonna pray for thing that actually is like a ceremonial act of of the Hail Mary, the Apostles Creed, there's, like, these standardized things you do, which are also in a, in a weird way is like a form of spiritual reciprocity. So you do say you do something wrong in the Catholic Church, they tell you go do 15 Hail Marys. That's still like a penance to something. Yeah. It's your pain, something because of something now, that no at the Christian church in the idea, the identity of the culture, it's surrounded by sin. So which is very different than like a native belief that the concept of sin is it's not in there? Not in the same manner? For sure. So that's the center, the center of Christendom is this idea that, that it's all revolving around sin? And then ridding yourself of sin? Yeah, so it's coming from a very different things. So that's why all the pitiful talk comes in. Because the idea of prayer in the Christian church is based on you being bad at whatever it is you're doing.

Shandin Pete:

As far as we know, as far as

Aaron Brien:

we know, like, I mean, it really, I mean, the idea is that I mean, the first foundational story in the Bible, is someone messing up. Yeah. And so from that moment on, there was always catch up game playing catch up with the Creator. Yeah, like, how can I how can I write myself in the eyes of the Creator? So there's all these things you do? So? Yeah, there's like Moses with the 10 commandments and this idea that like here, follow these laws, and then you'll be right with me, well, then they couldn't do that. They couldn't do that. Right. So then this idea of like Jesus coming in and, and paying the ultimate price for the idea of sin. So the religion is based around wrongdoing. Yeah. And missing the mark. So I think I think when somebody thinks in the church thinks of prayer, their foundation, their foundation is based around this idea that we've messed up. And so I'm going to ask for something. But how do I ask for something when I've already I'm already in the wrong

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, we had to get someone who's really versed in this, because we might be way off. I don't know. I

Aaron Brien:

was raised that was raised in it. I was raised that way. Yeah.

Shandin Pete:

Okay. Okay. Okay, so your firsthand experience.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, I think like a lot of crow families you like to get on this. YouTube is like, you're over here one time and you're over here the other time for the most part. It was very common for girl families in my upbringing to be like Do to go to church and after church the sweats ready? So then you go to say, yeah, yes. So calm and actually, I would even say it was probably pretty common that flat flat had to Yes, there was some of that. Right. So when when a tribal person and we'll stick to our region pitches are goes before a powerful source of energy to seek something from it, it's not coming to it with that mindset. Yeah. Right.

Shandin Pete:

I explain what do you mean in sin? Oh, that sounds like you're yelling at me. Like it's a sermon.

Aaron Brien:

I listen to

Shandin Pete:

a sermon here. No, no know

Aaron Brien:

I get it on. I'll honestly say that this this conversation we're having is probably at the forefront of any person who's seeking. I don't know what else to say that like, native people struggle with identity. And this is the this this right here is the topic. Yeah. Coping with this this very thing. Yeah, we're talking about so yeah, maybe it's good. Maybe somebody's listening to this combination. I have these questions, too. Because yeah, I think we're taught that we can even have these questions.

Shandin Pete:

Right. We are. We are in? Yeah. So I'm reflecting. I would,

Aaron Brien:

I would even say was making you uncomfortable. And you have no allegiance to the church.

Shandin Pete:

Well, yeah. It makes me uncomfortable. Number one, because I feel like I don't know. I'm not an authority of Catholic or Christian matters. So I feel I feel I feel gunshot even talk about it. Yeah, like, I don't know who. Yeah, but who is and then and then take take from like, from your own personal experience, just like you I was raised in, you know, my mom did my best did her best to raise us traditionally in the 70s and 80s. Which, if anybody knows how it was in the 70s and 80s. And on the rez, you know, that's, it was still influenced by that. Catholicism. But you know, it's been integrated into a lot of things. So we don't recognize it. We don't see it. It's just it's just the way it is. But, yeah, so my mom would always be super against the church. And then the next one, we'd be going to the church, and I wouldn't I couldn't figure out why. She was. So as she would say, I'm brainwashed. I have to go. But it wasn't. what it's called. It's a

Aaron Brien:

social hub. Well, yeah, the church became kind of the cultural centerpiece of a community. So yeah, in flathead, even more so because your tribe like unlike a lot of tribes sought it out. So I think they see Nate, they didn't have to cope with the justification part like the intruder. I actually think that came way later. Yeah. Like, it's like, Oh, you guys gonna leave now? Yeah, you know, so I think that part of it might be a little bit different. But um, well, I mean, just so we don't get too far in the weeds. Like, you're right. You are right. We're not experts. But I wouldn't say we're experts at even native stuff.

Shandin Pete:

Right. Yeah. But we're behind. But really, the whole point of

Aaron Brien:

this podcast is to like just ask these questions, because, yeah, we're all thinking them anyway.

Shandin Pete:

Right. So this is this is what's on my mind now. So I'm thinking of it maybe you've been put in this position before but you can. You can envision this. envision this. So a bunch of bunch of natives gather even doesn't have to Be a bunch of natives, but you know, you had some function and in, you see somebody get asked or somebody gets asked, so can you pray? Can you pray for, to start start us off, and it's always the same staves off in

Aaron Brien:

a good way, in a good way.

Shandin Pete:

And so so this is the thing. So if you think back at that, that time, and you think, Well, what do people usually say? And this is where I, this is where when I get, I think about it. So somebody gets up, and they they're gonna say, you know, recite whatever they say, I'm gonna pray for pray for the food. So we have good food or whatever. And I always think, well, what why do we even say the word pray when we're praying for something? You know what I mean? Like, what does that word even mean? I'm gonna pray for the for the food.

Aaron Brien:

But what does that mean? That's a hard concept

Shandin Pete:

to Yeah, but when it's a wish, when when if you think about if so this is for someone, like a little index card to write down for if you if you get asked to pray, right, these four steps down? Well, I don't know if they're four, let's come up with four, four steps. Number one, just say no, I'm not old enough. Just try to pass it off to somebody. That's usually I'm not old enough. That's kind of weak. That's, that's weak.

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, but I pass it off all the time. You do. In fact, if any federal agency is listening right now, I'm gonna say no. Again,

Shandin Pete:

number one, say no. But why? Well, let's get into this. Why would you say no?

Aaron Brien:

Because I don't buy it. I don't believe in it.

Shandin Pete:

You don't believe in prayer. During a Native American

Aaron Brien:

style what I said?

Shandin Pete:

Whoa, whoa, he did he got heated. Correct me then.

Aaron Brien:

I could open my smudge box. Or open up my smudge box.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah, so I know what you mean, though. So we're talking about appropriateness, or? Yeah, yeah. When is it appropriate? To begin something with with a prayer for lack of a better word, because we kind of got confused on that a little bit. Well, I don't know. I think we know what it is. But it's the word I don't get it. Well, I don't get it because I don't it's is what what's the action? The word is the word is the action. I'm gonna pray for? Is that an action word? Some my god. Limited English. I'm limited English. Okay. What is pray really mean? Is it an action word?

Aaron Brien:

I'm looking at, okay. It's

Shandin Pete:

not like run, like I'm gonna run, you know what you're gonna do? Then you expect, okay, I'm gonna run to the table that you know what's going to happen? So, okay.

Aaron Brien:

So, under the Catholic Church, it says there's four types of prayer. Really? Does. Prayer number one prayer of a dolt a blessing. prayer of blessing. prayer of blessing. Okay. Then number two is a prayer of repentance. Okay. And then there's a prayer of thanksgiving. And then there's a prayer of supplication, our petition or intercessors. That's all says the four, four types of prayer in the Catholic Church. Okay, okay. Who?

Shandin Pete:

Okay, we're getting somewhere now.

Aaron Brien:

What? Okay, here, right here. Let's look at this. How does Jesus define prayer? Jesus says that prayer should be a private time between God and the worshiper, Jesus does not mean that this is wrong to pray with others, but the prayer should be sincere are the right motives. You ever noticed that the Christian church like the belief is very like based on feeling like my feelings, feelings? Where I think with tribal people, a lot of it is based on action reaction. Yeah. You know, so like, what I do yields a certain result I'm going to keep doing that if that result is beneficial to me. Yeah, my family or whatever, we're in the church. It seems like it's very it's based on like this. The ether, and it's kind of like, if it's God's will, this will happen. hours like, I feel this is my truth. Like that kind of thing. Where Yeah, I think I think I'm in like a Sarah Monix like a pro ceremony like a wrong movement is a wrong movement, regardless of how you look at it. You know, so if you do something wrong, they're not like, what did you feel like you did something wrong?

Shandin Pete:

It's pretty clear. Yeah, you did. We're not up to you. Now, does

Aaron Brien:

that mean that that's life or death? I don't know. I don't know that I'm not the leader of those things.

Shandin Pete:

So you'd have to ask them. We're on top. Here.

Aaron Brien:

We are. We are mixed up. We're getting off and here. So anyway.

Shandin Pete:

Well, wait. I want to go back. I want to go back to the instance of because this is important. praying, I can't get over this word. I can't get over it. You messed me up. Because I've been thinking about this. Because I think about young young young people, you know, young people, like my kids, so I just go pray about it. You know, you tell them that, but they don't know. They don't get it. What are they? How do I do that? Then you tell them what exactly to do. And it's the wish, right? What do you know? Just wish and go? Go? Rob on that tree? Yeah. Yeah. Ask for ask for something. Yeah. So the word pray. I don't know, in the English language. I just don't get it. And it's because because people use it. I pray for all this food. But what does that mean? What are you doing? What are you doing? What's the action? What's the action? I'm gonna pray for you? I say that. I'll say that to people. I'll pray for you. But you don't really tell exactly what you're going to do. But do you have to? mixed up, man, I'm all mixed up here. God dang it. Okay,

Aaron Brien:

so I've heard people say this, like, this is even better than any young listener, I would encourage this. If you know somebody owns a sweat, or they like to go to sweat, the sweat lodge all the time, instead of saying, Hey, will you pray for me just say, hey, next time you go into the sweat, where you ask for good things for me? Yeah, see that?

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, use that. If

Aaron Brien:

you're like, hey, if you know, someone's gonna go into the Sundancer, which is a very serious thing. It's a big undertaking. Yeah. Maybe bring a pack of cigarettes to them and say, Hey, I know you're going into that Lodge. That's a holy place. I want you to ask for good things for me my family. Yeah.

Shandin Pete:

That's, that's better to clear.

Aaron Brien:

That's real clear.

Shandin Pete:

Are my mom's legs hurt? Yes, that's for them to feel better. Yep. You know, screen with

Aaron Brien:

this pain. Yeah, yep. Yeah, we don't want her to have that pain anymore. Yeah. Be specific about what you're asking for. Because they used to always say, Don't pray for rain, and they get mad when it floods. Yeah, you know, be specific. Don't be afraid to say I want three inches of rain. You know what I mean? Like, don't say, oh, we need an inch, one inch of precipitation. That's yeah, I'm gonna ask for Yeah, you know, I think that's important. I really do think that's important. Now, fact, does that mean, I'm doing that? I don't know. I'm not saying that, that we're, or that I'm the example of how this should be? Because I don't know, man. I'm like anybody else? Trying to figure this all out for myself?

Shandin Pete:

No, I can relate to that. Because I think of a lot of instances where I, I'll revert to the word. Pray, go pray for this. Pray for that. But and that, it always is. It's been bothering me in the past, like 10 years about, what does that really mean? What do I really mean? I do know, because when you go do that thing, you know, the series of things that you're asking for, you know why you said that you're gonna pray for somebody usually say that to somebody because they're having a hardship. So you know, you're going to, you're going to ask for something good for them. But we use this word, pray for some reason. And it gets tangled up in this thing. You talked about this form, that we genuinely here and follow. You know, but that doesn't matter how pitiful we are. We can still ask for things. We don't have to be in a pitiful state I guess.

Aaron Brien:

So no, you don't have to be pitiful.

Shandin Pete:

So the prayer before this happens a lot. This happens a lot. It haven't seen it much here. Where I'm at now. In fact, it's very rare. But that call me was always got to start the meeting with with the prayer and in a good way.

Aaron Brien:

Shanti and Pete, can you come up here we'd like to ask for you to do the blessing. So we start our meeting off in a good way

Shandin Pete:

as If it was, it was going south, and what you're gonna say is gonna straighten everything out. There's already bad blood, man, it's gonna be bad no matter what. So anyway, that's some. That's something I don't know. I mean, it's good. It's good to be a prayerful person. It's good to be, I guess have that thought and that mentality in all things we do, I suppose, but um, I guess you can kind of run out of things, you know, like, in one day's time, you could probably think of a lot of things that you really would want to wish for. Then what?

Aaron Brien:

Okay, so let's start over. Okay, reset reason. The whole reason I called you today and I say, hey, I want to have a podcast is because, dude, when I go to these meetings, at the beginning, the meetings will blow 20 minutes, sometimes 30 minutes. And in some cases, 40 minutes on the opening prayer. So we start the meeting off in a good way. And what I'm noticing and I don't know if I'm a cynic, or if I'm hater or what, but it does the exact opposite. It does not start the meeting off in a good way people get mad. People get mad dude. And they're like, oh, man, now we need a break, need a break after

Shandin Pete:

prayer? If you need a break after the prayer, you probably did. He probably went wrong, somewhere. And

Aaron Brien:

so this idea has been adopted by a lot of federal agencies, state agencies, academic institutions. Yeah. They'll say, when it's an Indian thing, they'll say, Well, let's start to me enough in a good way. Meanwhile, when you go home, yeah, and you ever sit down with your kids or even at work, even when you're working with tribal people? Yeah. And it's just, you don't want to have a prayer. You don't pray before the meeting. You just eat this talk. You just talk man, this visit and and so I've been struggling with this because the kid I have recently heard that the California tribes, as far as preservation work gets, they've just they don't do it. They don't pray before meetings. Yeah. Before consultations in Yeah. And then, so we set it up pretty good. So we talked about wish making and prayer and all that stuff. So the lady asked me today actually a BLM. Archaeologists, we were talking and I had brought it up that and she's she was just asking kind of generally like, was there anything? What are your thoughts on the meetings? These kinds of Yes, former BLM archaeologists? And I said, I said, you know, one of the things is, is all the all US tribes, we vary, you know, so from tribe to tribe, we're gonna have different customs. Now, I said, Yeah, you're speaking for the way I understand my own beliefs. And then and then the idea of, of wish making, when somebody gets up and prays for the meeting to go good. They're making a wish that this meeting is going to go good that we're all going to get along. And that these things that that we're going to talk about today that we leave here, in a good way. Now, I feel obligated to meet that prayer halfway. So I may have had all these notes from from reading the prep documents. These this is I'm going to trash this trash this and trash this because that's my job as a, as a representative of tribe and cultural resources. My job is to provide comment and say, Hey, we don't like this. We want to advocate for this. So now I feel hindered. Like, I can't say those things because those things might be taken confrontational, because that's the nature of consultation, like things are going to be uncomfortable sometimes. But that's that's how we work through things. Yeah. Now, my issue is that, why do we feel like it's necessary to do these long prayers before these meetings that might actually have an effect on how the consultation might go? Or the whatever we're doing my my goal? Yeah. And when I talked to tribal people, traditionalists, yeah, I say before you do this, do you guys do this at home? And they'll say, No, we don't do it. So they all unanimously agree. They don't do that at home. Yeah. Now why are they like, almost chomping at the bit to do it? There so I can't help but think and again, I'm a cynic. Here's some showmanship to it.

Shandin Pete:

Yep, that's gonna say it's performative. Its performance. And that the that negates the whole All Purpose of what I don't get the word. You know what we're talking about? Honestly, wish making sounds weird, but I'm feeling uncomfortable saying prayer now. I don't get it. I mean, I get it, I get it, but I just I'm questioning. Yeah, that's performance. Its performance. Because you're around a bunch of Indians and a bunch of non Indians and you got to do this little show. I don't know, man. But I don't know. Cuz you can. Okay. Yeah, you can't dog on somebody for trying to do something good like that? I don't know. But but can you? I get the position you're in, I get the position you're in.

Aaron Brien:

And the thing is, is I would never say to that person, they're not sincere because prayers prayer, like, yeah, even prayer. Yeah. And I know, it's good. All I'm saying is that I don't feel comfortable. necessarily contradicting what's being asked for. Yeah.

Shandin Pete:

It's the necessity of that performance, that pray pray praying thing, before these, these meetings that are have for I don't know, they're, what are they? I mean, are they? Are they like, into ceremony and nature? Not really, I don't think right? It just we're not waiting, right? This is not gonna

Aaron Brien:

go just, we're talking about projects that we might be advocating for cultural resources. We might be arguing about methodology, we might be commenting on all the various subjects with natural resources, and it's really all it's that it's a regulatory meeting. Yeah. So sometimes I feel like the prayer is like, again, I can't help but think but it seems a bit showmanship in on. I'm like, Mandy, am I really going to be that guy that feels that way. And then I'm the bad guy. Because we've just been doing this for so long. You know?

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. You know, what that does, that works against kind of what we we do as Native people to you know, it puts a stereotype out there. So all non native folks see and that, I think that this is the way the all the all prayerful native, they pray for everything, pray during everything. You know, when it gets me is when people have to stand.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, okay. So that's another thing, the lady, I said that I said, you know, I've never been in a CRO ceremony where they said, when they started praying, everyone stood up. Yeah, we never I've never seen it. Yeah, I've seen in church. Yeah, a lot. I've seen it in church a lot. But

Shandin Pete:

yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's another thing. Everybody got to stand and listen to somebody pray for 40 minutes. That's why everybody needs a break. legs are tired.

Aaron Brien:

So. So if, if you were ever in a position where somebody said, and you have been there, I know that I know. Yeah. Where they'll say, Shawn Dean, we want you to pray for the beginning of the at the beginning of me. So we started off in a good way. Yeah. What would you do then? At that point? Tell him what, how would you approach the situation? Because maybe you're in a position where a respected person asked you? Yeah, so then you feel like, okay, I need to because it was a respected individual that asked me to do this. Yeah. And what would you do

Shandin Pete:

on that? I think I remember the instances where that has happened. And generally, I'll give a a little preface, preface, a short history lesson of some sort on how my ways intersected with some other cultural, we're just very brief, you know, to say, Okay, this is, from what I know, this is how our people were interacting with you people in that sort of way. And then usually I'll just revert to, to, you know, not not spoken word I'll revert to a song of some sort and describe it briefly. And that's my go to because I'm not I guess I'm not necessarily it's my hang up on the word. Prayer. You know, I I don't know what I'm I don't exactly know where I would where I would go with what I would say, Hey,

Aaron Brien:

are you okay? Man, like, you're

Shandin Pete:

not okay. I'm not okay. I think I'm thinking too deeply about I probably just stick myself out of everything, but no, I don't. I'm not I'm not prepared to bro. I'm not prepared to meaningfully verbally to verbally say the things that I think would be appropriate for that situation? It's too new, especially if it just sprung into HC. And is can you say the prayer? Okay, now I guess. But if it's if it's at home, you know, and it's for a meal. That's easy. Because then I just go right to my, to what they know of Catholic ways. I'll just say that. The food prayer, the Catholic food prayer, it's easy. Because everybody knows it, and they'll say it along with you. Yeah. What about if I'm in unknown territory? I'll try to I'll try to sing something that might be meaningful for that. So usually, you're broke, you're broke. I'm broke, spiritually broke.

Aaron Brien:

Broke. Broke. Uncomfortable I've ever heard you.

Shandin Pete:

It's an odd one, because you're not yet. You're accustomed to prayer on in wet and wishing in certain instances, right? Yes, in this in the ceremonial context. That's where you're at. And when you're taken out of that, and you're asked to do something that seems like it has to be for that. Day, I get a bit uncomfortable. Doesn't like there's a mismatch. It's not the right audience. It's not have the right things prior to leading up to it. Yes, it's awkward. So that's, that's how I've handled it before I'll just revert to something that's that I'm really familiar with and that would be meaningful for the situation. But what about you? I see no. Okay. Yeah, I do.

Aaron Brien:

I say no, I said, I don't think we need to do that. I think that Yeah. In fact, on this lady asked me, she said, how would you? How would you envision, and I said, okay, here, here's what I did. I thought this was pretty clever. But you might think I'm an idiot. Okay, let's hear what just happened before. I said, you're not going to shake the prayer thing. You're not going to that it's so engrained in that arena, that that we're not going to shake it. So what I said was, the facilitator of the meeting would get up, stand up or sit there, however they want to do it, but hold court, and their job is to proclaim the reason for the meeting and why the meeting was called. Yeah, this is this is why we're going to do it. Yeah. And then you would say, at the end of the meeting, I'm going to ask my friend, so and so to pray for us at the end of the meeting, that the things that we share here today that we'll learn from it. So at the end of the meeting, I'm going to ask so and so to do that for us. Yeah. And then you start the meeting.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. What do you think of that? That seems more, it seems more fitting in that instance, you know, and then if those people can just leave if they don't want to? You know, because yeah, is that the end?

Aaron Brien:

Because I'm like, trying to be late for meetings. Yeah. Because I don't want to be like, it's so awkward. And it's like, oh, and we're gonna talk about like, wind turbines. Like, I was just about to trash their design. And now I gotta go on there with a good heart, in a good way. And it's like, I feel obligated now to be real nice to this guy.

Shandin Pete:

That's like, the only bead when you have a good heart, good feelings. Nobody ever getting the beading done.

Aaron Brien:

So another time, my grandma told me that her grandma, she would get all her ingredients together to cook dinner for these kids or young kids. She's old lady, you know, this is way back in the 30s and 40s. So telling he was old then you should get all the ingredients together. And then before she cooked, she would make a wish for the food. And say, I'm going to put you together for these things for my kids. Yeah. And while I'm doing this, that something good will go into it and it'll bring nourishment to these young kids or whatever. Yeah, right. And then then when they when they would, she was done cooking. She tell them come and eat. And then I'm like, okay, she like place something into that food now. Yes. Well, it was being created. Yeah. Not not like cook it, do everything and then just say, Wow, I hope God hooks you up with something. But also, like maybe we just don't even know what we're talking about. And like, I don't know how. I don't know. Do you think God really worries about your spaghetti like, I don't know, man, like, I struggle. I struggle.

Shandin Pete:

You Yeah, that's why the more the more concrete I think you started with, that makes more sense to me. In a way. I mean, not not fully, but I mean, no, that makes sense. The Praying part about the higher the higher being God Creator, those kinds of things. Yeah, that's something but the earthly things that makes a lot of sense to pray and ask things from something that is living on the earth. And there's instances of that in the past you see that quite a bit, you know, someone telling their kid to go robe on a tree, you know, and pray for themselves to be strong and their, their bones would be strong, those kinds of things, you know, there are shooting the arrow at a rock, you know, and asking the rock to help them in their hunting or their wars. The tree the medicine trees, you know, making wishes in these trees. You know, getting getting song, you know, you hear you get visions and songs about water spring. What absurd.

Aaron Brien:

What about this? What if you're like, your this is real hypothetical. Yeah. What if you're spelunker? You know, to spelunkers? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. cave diving full. Sure.

Shandin Pete:

Sure. Sure. I just watched the documentary. Oh, nice. So you're,

Aaron Brien:

you're astute.

Shandin Pete:

You asked me about belaying? Are

Aaron Brien:

we, as tribal people, most of the time don't really believe that we belong to that. Like, we were like, we're not. We don't live there. We may have came from there. And some beliefs. Some tribes say we came from the ground. Now we're on top of the ground or whatever. So but the idea is like, that's almost like another realm. Right?

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. Would you agree? Agree? Agree.

Aaron Brien:

So what if I'm a spelunker? And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go into the ground. Yeah. Then I go outside, and I see some prairie dogs. Okay. Yeah. Look at the prairie dogs. Well, where do they

Shandin Pete:

live? They live in the ground, live in the ground. So

Aaron Brien:

what if I go over to that prairie dog? And I take a piece of my cookie out, and I put, put it on the ground? And I say, I'm going to go into the ground like you live in the ground? Yeah. I'm going to ask you to watch me why going there. And that the things that I do on there will mimic you? Because you're from there. Yeah. And then you might go, do you think that's more tribal?

Shandin Pete:

Yeah.

Aaron Brien:

That seemed pretty tribal. Did

Shandin Pete:

that does? Yeah. That's, that's right in line. Yeah. That's true, just to be as concrete? Yes, it's concrete. It's practical. I can grasp it. I

Aaron Brien:

can even if even if it's not like your direct tribal tribes believe Yeah. Yeah. Based on your concept of your tribe. That makes sense.

Shandin Pete:

Yeah. So this is what I think about all these things we're talking about and, and I've described this before, to in a different way, but Oh, yeah. So So there's, there's a, I believe there's a higher power, right? There's this higher power. We don't know what it is, you know, you see it in like an old trying to think of those kind of things, but they caught the great mystery, you know, the mystery, the great spirit, that's I think, or this whole idea of the Great Spirit, this mystery thing. We don't know what it is. We don't even know, we don't know, I think I think that's, that's something. But for us to receive anything, any gift from that. We can't go right to that thing. It has to be intermediary, such as earthly things that we've done have talked about. That's, that's what this this whole fasting vision you're trying to get as soon as you're trying to get a power, but it's an earthly thing. It's not nothing. It's not a mystery, something that we're familiar with. But I think that is like the intermediary between the power that's out there is these earthly things. That's, that's kind of the belief so to, to pray to those things, to wish to those things to pray in that manner that you talk about, I'm going to do this thing. So I'm going to do pray to that thing that's like that, that's, that's so familiar. This the way the way you conditioned your children, you know, when they're born, you condition them by, by, you know, introducing a part of that animal that you want them to be like, I don't know if that crows do that. But still, that's kind of an old Salish tradition, you know, and like, in some instances, they'll, they'll mix ants with clay and they'll rub it on their babies at a certain age because they wanted kids to be hard workers are, are a certain animal, you know, they want it to be quick. So they'll rub the heart of that animal with some clay on to that kid because they want it to be like that. That's kind of that same man Enter of of wishing well wishing like you described

Aaron Brien:

Yeah, well you might do this specific that specific thing but that makes total sense to me yeah. Like you said makes complete sense to me so um yeah for sure like my my grandpa used to see them all lawyers would train their kids to go catch beavers and they would catch beavers to take the teller the beaver and they'd run it under on their chests and they'd say I want to be able to swim like this beaver Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

yeah. Yeah. Or

Aaron Brien:

or I had one time heard the story about the early reservation there are I don't know who the individuals were. But it made sense to me. But I haven't even thought about it just today but this guy wanted to build his family at home so he went to one of his clan relatives and said I want I want you guys to make good wishes for me or I'm going to want to build my my wife and kids a home and they told him they said Go Go down to the river where you see them beaver dams? Yeah. Ask those beavers to guide you in building a home yeah. Now it makes sense to me even just talking like this is because they those beavers build the home yeah that's like all that goes medicine was the beaver that's just my first instinct was like, oh yes, it's a beaver. And it's like well no literally is talking about building a home. Yeah, yeah, that beaver has what you're looking for go ask it how it did it yep DA

Shandin Pete:

is not that mysterious once you start taking it apart but that's truly not It's not we've complicated a lot of matters not not of our own doing I think and people looking outside in it probably even imagine how mysterious and backward it might seem but maybe not I don't know. I think all people all humans are pretty practical in that matter but it's just these I hate to say but you know religious I don't know I don't even want to say I don't want to say it's different this is different. Anyway, we've been added we've been added yet. Let's go and

Aaron Brien:

a half this equipment

Shandin Pete:

Okay, on the next on the next episode. I'm hoping to see you set up that boom arm

Aaron Brien:

name this episode in a good way

Shandin Pete:

air quotes in a good way in the ancient way in whenever we still never talked about pray the movie wouldn't do that next we got

Aaron Brien:

banned. Yeah, and that movie was sick man

Shandin Pete:

and and then also we still got to do our contemporary singing episodes. I've done that yet either. That's coming

Aaron Brien:

about though and so we got to do that one.

Shandin Pete:

I'm two and still shout out to wild gallery still supporting the show.

Aaron Brien:

Oh, awesome, man.

Shandin Pete:

Congrats.

Aaron Brien:

Congrats

Shandin Pete:

congrats to us. Did you congratulate wild gallery for

Aaron Brien:

wild galley gallery for

Shandin Pete:

so click on their link I suppose in the shownotes

Aaron Brien:

link link will be in the show notes. Gallery. Thank you for your support. Yeah, we're just gonna be providing all this great confused content

Shandin Pete:

awesome, man. We got some other patriots. Let's let's give them a quick shout out real quick. Are you ready? Yeah. I'm not ready. I gotta. Let's see. Where am I at? Here we go. Okay. Here it is. Right about it. He's still here. Let's pray about it. That's about it. Okay, we've got Mary Bobbitt. Five bucks. Five bucks a month. Oh, last three. marason. Thank you, Mary.

Aaron Brien:

Thank you a BLM archaeologist.

Shandin Pete:

Oh, there you go. Jason, free edge. I think that's how you say it. FREIH A G. pitching in five bucks a month. Awesome. Thanks, Jason. And then Travis Davis. He's the stand up dude. Man. He's been he's been supporting the show for a long, long time. He's been given us. I think so. Yeah. He's been he's been pitching in 25 a month. And that's helping out. Yeah. What? Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Travis. Thank you, Rachel. Hoelscher She can't afford much but she's really pitching in where she can two bucks a month. That's awesome. We'll go take it. I know. I know. Same with Mars, Xena. I don't know what her last name in it I don't even know I'm saying the name right. Mar Zen a Mars Xena. Maybe two bucks a month. That Junin is helping out. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan Swanson. Yep. Five bucks a month. Oh, he's been hanging in there for quite a while to quite a while. Thanks, Ryan. Awesome. And then, Emma Lafave, five bucks a month. can beat it. Awesome. Awesome. No. Say it again.

Aaron Brien:

Thank you.

Shandin Pete:

Thank you. What's the meaning?

Aaron Brien:

I'll pray for you. Yeah,

Shandin Pete:

yes, yes. All right.

Aaron Brien:

Thank you, bro. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. All right. We're out.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Aaron Brien

Host
Head Shot

Shandin Pete

Host