We took a small break but we are back to discuss more important issues and accomplishment from Indian Country. We had a chance to resent and are ready to jump back in to elaborate on old topics and bring forth new and challenging discussions.
In this episode we provide an overview of some previously discussed topics centered around the idea quoted from previous guest and noted artist Ben Pease "frenzied culturalism". We also talk about new emerging topics and put forth a challenge to Indigenous scholars to join the conversation to advance out thoughts.
Thank you to our loyal listeners and welcome to new subscribers! We hope you enjoy this episode.
Join the discussion and let us know your thoughts.
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
PodCast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxb
Twitter: @tribalresearchspecialist
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialist
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179Q
Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com
We took a small break but we are back to discuss more important issues and accomplishment from Indian Country. We had a chance to resent and are ready to jump back in to elaborate on old topics and bring forth new and challenging discussions.
In this episode we provide an overview of some previously discussed topics centered around the idea quoted from previous guest and noted artist Ben Pease "frenzied culturalism". We also talk about new emerging topics and put forth a challenge to Indigenous scholars to join the conversation to advance out thoughts.
Thank you to our loyal listeners and welcome to new subscribers! We hope you enjoy this episode.
Join the discussion and let us know your thoughts.
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
PodCast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxb
Twitter: @tribalresearchspecialist
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialist
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179Q
Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com
Because of that, like learning and absorbing this this pan Indian ism, you start to set really unrealistic goals for yourself. And then you start to impose those goals on others those beliefs on others to where they become confused and they I think they start to instigate other confrontations and other ways with others. And I think it turns into sort of this like a frenzied culturalism
Shandin Pete:Hello, and welcome to tribal research specialist, the podcast where we will be talking about important things Hello, and welcome to tribal research specialist, the podcast, a podcast dedicated to chatting about Hello, and welcome to
Ben Pease:frenzied culturalism it moves and it doesn't know what to do or where to go or how to form itself. And nobody really has a way of knowing or way of doing this. It's really concrete and positive, you know, nobody really knows how to work with efficacy with this frenzy. culturalism. You know, everybody's losing their minds about how to be indigenous and how to be native, I think. Why so serious? You know,
Shandin Pete:that's interesting. Because noted, noted today, in a lot of, I guess a lot of circles, is this kind of the craziness that's going on? Like this explosion, I think I even heard somebody mentioned it as native Renaissance, the native renaissance of today? Because I guess, I don't know. Now, there's a theory, tell me tell me if this sounds familiar in your field, like there's a theory about when certain needs are met. You know, you're you're where you're beyond the basic, like just the basic survival stage and you're able to not worry about, you know, death is much what is is that A is that a theory in anthropology or, or ethnography, where you were like you can then you have this explosion of ideas and are taking that this kind of a European idea, but, you know, then you get this industrialization where people are kind of pulled themselves out of, I guess, the day to day trials of life. And then they can kind of go crazy. And materialism and capitalism, I don't know. Does this sound familiar? Do you remember coming across like this in here? There,
Aaron Brien:there is something that's kind of similar. Yeah. In the classics, you know, like the classics field by the Romans, the Latin culture, the Greeks. Yeah. And I've heard reference to it before, it's called the age of decadence. And it was kind of this concept, maybe a theory. I don't I don't know. I can't give you any source information right now. But in sight, nobody. Yeah. And it's been a long time since I even thought about the actual citation of it. But really, it's just an idea that yeah, that once utilitarian is our What's your utilitarian kind of need? The subsistence need is met, then that's when you have time to ponder and to you know, kind of expand our expound on certain things. Yeah, well, as more resources become abundant, that means surplus gets bigger, which leads to less time having to hand into a surgeon like that. Yeah. So in North America, I believe it's after the kind of around the mid McKean culture. buffalo hunting peoples Yeah, 5000 years ago, I believe. They kind of like take off as creating abundance. So therefore, it's supposedly leads to this, like artistic. So you see an influx of rock art. You see, a different scholars will argue like the timeline, but really what it comes down to is, the more food you have, the more time you have to relax, which means you have more time to think. Right? Right. Your artistic culture, your abstract culture gets more complicated. Now. That's contrary to a lot of native beliefs. So just Yeah, yeah. I don't think it necessary. Indian belief at all, but I do know people who could pretty worked up about about that. Sure.
Shandin Pete:So I don't know, I guess, um, I don't know, in a way so then how does that play into like, like any I guess in your opinion like, like a shifting of identity. Now I don't think I would I would hate to think that our our forefathers if you will our ancestors, whatever you want want to call them. I don't think they thought about well, I'm worried about my, my grandchildren's identity. I'm worried about if their identity. Yes, so be
Aaron Brien:attacked. Have you ever heard this like, kind of just common belief? It's like a thing people say when they'll say our ancestors fought for us to survive and our ancient beliefs were for us to survive are to be here today. Yeah. Oh, you're gonna get that? No, no, no, no. It's fine. Okay, okay. Fact, I should turn the ringer off. Ah, no, I don't really thought you know, yeah, you know, there's this modern. This is this is maybe offend people, you know, but there's this kind of modern concept of seven generations or like, yeah, I don't know if that's, I'm not against the concept, but I'm against how it's portrayed. Like, we didn't I don't even know how to articulate it. But I think you get what I'm saying?
Shandin Pete:I do. I do. And I think, you know, even that idea alone. I mean, we've brought up some, I guess, some controversial things, or maybe some different perspective, trying to go in deeper onto certain things that maybe are not given enough time to, I guess, find concrete examples. But even that idea alone, you know, talking about Indian identity, and kind of what that little clip was about this frenzy. culturalism like, we're so busy buzzing around tryna trying to make sure that that the identity is right or correct. And then, you know, you go to yours with doing something and then you figure out, oh, there's maybe there's something else to that, you know, so then things change. I mean, that the power world is a good example of that, where, where you see these shifts on what, what's traditional, what's old style, old style, you know, all this old style singing was the contemporary, etc. So you see these shifts, you know, and we've lived through, you know, just you and I are not new, we're not that old, we live through probably six or seven of those changes, just in that one specific example of the power world.
Aaron Brien:And each one of those changes was claiming to be the original thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When none of it is original. Right? Because that's not how native belief is set up. It's not first of all, identity is always shifting. Right? Yes.
Shandin Pete:Let's let's now, right now,
Aaron Brien:it's not it's not a stagnant thing, right? identities, probably closer to a muscle.
Shandin Pete:Not that lives in the sea or the
Aaron Brien:No, no, not a m u. SS,
Shandin Pete:not a mollusk by Valve, not a bivalve.
Aaron Brien:No, no, we're not. No, we're not missing any of that stuff. No, like a muscle like, it's not like guns, the guns, it's something that needs exercise. It's something that needs weight. Right to improve upon it's right. It also needs rest. I don't know. I don't need to men's health. No, I don't know man. Like it's it's weird. So I've struggled with this identity concept too. But not in the same way. I don't think I've ever I've, I think I've always been comfortable with my identity in terms of my cultural identity. Like anybody else. I think as an individual, I've struggled with identity and just kind of figuring it out, you know? But as far as I've always known who I am, now, there's there. There's a depth to identity to so you can still know who you are, but not have any depth to it. I think that's sort of like a lot of young people deal with is like they know who they are, but there's no depth Right. Right, right. Yeah, it gets rocked, you know, the foundation a deep, you know? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:You get a paradigm shift.
Aaron Brien:A paradigm shift. No, no,
Shandin Pete:that's like a board game. I think that's a board game you play. That'd be Yeah, let's Hey, guys want to play a paradigm shift? You guys while the kids
Aaron Brien:you guys want to get into a little, little game a paradigm shift. So stupid that saying that phrase. Like when I hear that, like when I'm when I'm at a con, especially when I was involved in academics a lot. Yeah, man that that was always that'd be sitting there and be like, we're facing a paradigm shift. And I'm like, No, we're not. I mean, other one. Doesn't one is like, in the way I think paradigm shifts is like, I think in the shift, you don't know you're in a shift. But like, yeah, no, like, in if you're in the storm. Yeah. You can't make out the complexities of the storm. Yeah. So then, because then you have people like we're in a paradigm shift. Like why do you know?
Shandin Pete:Start was like,
Aaron Brien:when did it start? And you would have to see the end to know, it's an a shift, you know, right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Or is it just always shifting? I don't know.
Shandin Pete:Well, that's, yeah, that's this idea. Like this frenzy? culturalism. I mean, we see it. Like there's, there's an explosion today, just like there was, I don't know. Okay, so this ribbon shirt, distributes shirt that we kind of dug down a bit in the last couple of episodes in the past. That was a that was a shift toward some sort of identity. Right? So somebody wanted to have an outward expression of identity. So somebody I don't know where it started, how or what went but it we started wearing ribbon shirts again. God, they're
Aaron Brien:ugly man.
Shandin Pete:Little pride, you know, that's that was what they had at that time. So nowadays, we got this another. I mean, there's probably been several things that happened between but now we have these artists, Indigenous artists who are creating these wearable art and
Aaron Brien:well, even ledger, ledger art is real. Yeah,
Shandin Pete:yeah, so reflective of an identity. So and then. So this is where things get complicated, though, because, um, it seems and I, I could be wrong. And I'm probably wrong about a majority of the population. But there's, there's certain folks out there who are grasping for identity or belongingness. And maybe have a lack of identification with a, like, like the, like the core traditionalists or, you know, like the folks that are that you won't see anywhere besides in their community, just live in living the good ole life and not caring about too much that's going on and outside world, there's folks that we're not connected to that. So they're looking for something. And that's just like this, that, you know, this pan Indian ism, where I'm going to grab on to whatever's out there, I'm gonna claim it as my identity or be smashed it into as part of my identity. And I think and I think that's, that becomes like the most visible part of what, like indigene ism, we're in digitizing things as they become this kind of this broad, broad stroke of what being an indigenous person is, then all the other stuff kind of gets glossed over so you get the books written about these things, you get the social media explosion in, in a pan Indian way, but I don't know I don't know that shifting too. Because I think people are getting more specific. In their, I guess their design and their art, they're getting very detailed and how they're representing their own designs and those kinds of things. But I think it's interesting how, how Ben please put it in that first quote, they are the his little clip there's this this this this whole there's a lot of people doing it. It's all visible. It's everywhere. Social media everywhere. I mean, you can't you can't go anywhere without hearing a land acknowledgement. You can't go anywhere without seeing you know, some some, you know, the beaded earrings hanging out somewhere, you know, I don't know.
Aaron Brien:I don't remember and then we might add data we might be repeating a bunch of stuff, but
Shandin Pete:that's yeah, that's yeah, I'm trying to get beyond that. But yeah, Tom, what are you gonna say? What are you giggling?
Aaron Brien:Remember the Warbonnet made out of safety pins.
Shandin Pete:Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yeah, I
Aaron Brien:think we need those back.
Shandin Pete:If you went next door, you probably find one. Your neighbor Allah bless One was a
Aaron Brien:bonsai or gods, the gods in a big wooden spoon in a wooden fork on the wall.
Shandin Pete:We talked about that. Yeah, yeah.
Aaron Brien:You know what I feel like it's the most native thing to do an Indian thing to do is to talk about identity. It doesn't feel natural.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:I mean, I think you talk about everything that makes up identity. Yeah. Because I've been around a lot of tribal people from all over and like, Yeah, I mean, cultures fun to talk about Heritage's for Nicaragua, especially like ceremony, right ceremony is really fun to talk about with those who know what they're talking about. Yeah. But one thing we don't do is we sit around and express identity in this in the sense that scholarship does. Right, right. Right. Right. Okay. So when I whenever we have taught conversations about identity, there's a level of it that doesn't feel natural. It's clunky and it's kind of awkward and
Shandin Pete:stickers for get over that awkwardness.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, it's just skeeto Give some sovereignty in the conversation, you know, power so when he talks about that patent anism we've talked about that before we have that frenzy. That's a cool statement that literally statement he says he's like, he's it's like there's this frenzy. And it does feel like we're in a frenzy. Yeah. As Native people. Yeah, even that statement I just said as native pizza weird, man like I thought you were going to drop something on the hill. But yet Hill Yeah. drop drop someone and he'll then you see all the ants like, freak out? Yeah. They kind of go over. Yeah. If you stay there long enough. They kind of calm down, right? Yeah. If you watch close enough when you're watching then he'll there's ants that are kind of on the edges on the fringes that are like, chillin
Shandin Pete:doing their business. Dragging a little.
Aaron Brien:Yeah. I feel like that's kind of how, yeah, that's kind of how Indian Country is right now. Like, amongst a certain group of Native people. Yeah. It's it's freakout time. Yeah. Then you kind of you meet people, like a former guest. We've had John's deform. He reminds me of the ads on outside. Yeah. And they're just kind of doing their thing and they just keep doing their thing. There's a consistency to it when the work. They're doing the work. They don't need a podcast.
Shandin Pete:No, they don't need
Aaron Brien:anything light affirmation. We're just going superficial weirdos. Somebody look at us. Okay. We're doing a podcast. It's like a couple of knuckleheads like we do it. So dumb. Did that last
Shandin Pete:episode. We're done. Oh, my God. We talked about this. So let's
Aaron Brien:we'll get back to the frenzy thing. Yeah. Yeah, but we haven't had a podcast in a while.
Shandin Pete:Yes, that's leading into. Okay,
Unknown:so we have
Shandin Pete:no, no, keep going. Because you're doing you're doing the work you're doing. You're doing good work. Keep it up. Well, we
Aaron Brien:haven't had a podcast in a while. So yes, we didn't quit the podcast game. But no, both of us. Made some pretty big changes in our lives. Yeah. We both moved. So we were kind of based out of a little town. Arlie Montana now. Yeah. I moved back to the Crow Reservation and with my family and another Preservation Officer for the Crow tribe and, and then, of course, you landed this badass international gig. To say that because it's like,
Shandin Pete:Are you reading my CV?
Aaron Brien:Yeah. Your CV and I printed it off. I got to print it off on cardstock. I am actually because we've never really talked about this much. So no, I want you tell myself and the listeners. I don't know what you do. I do not really. I mean, I kind of have an idea. Just keep talking but exactly what what Are you under? Where do you work? What's your title? What's the goal?
Shandin Pete:Let's Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to make this about what I'm doing. I'm making it about Okay. Well, I'll take this brief. Yeah. So So Assistant Professor of teaching University of British Columbia, in the earth, ocean and atmospheric sciences department.
Ben Pease:That's my job. And
Shandin Pete:yeah, I don't know exactly what the end game is of that. This position. It's gonna be varied and complicated in many ways, because, well, that's the nature of academics. And eventually, I might pin a book and my memoirs in the future. Ah, no, no, this No, no, I think I'm here. I'm here at this job to do to do the Indian stuff, man.
Aaron Brien:I'm really happy that you're choosing the word Indian because,
Shandin Pete:yeah, they don't use that word up here and can no no,
Aaron Brien:not no. Not in the Canada of course, indigenous is a huge phrase of Durban. As we know they're there. They're pretty keen on the First Nations.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Keen. I'm glad to say keen because that word is used a lot. Yeah, it's right.
Aaron Brien:Rank. And that's right. Right there Anka. Rank. And anyone who, who lives in Canada knows that Tim Hortons is just dunkin donuts for Canada. It's not a delicacy, man. No, no.
Shandin Pete:I think I downgraded more to like a town pump.
Aaron Brien:Myself. Yeah, like, I don't know. Crazy. Crazy. We go crazy over the 20s I don't I think it just tastes like Folgers Coffee to be honest. Which is fine. I like to fold right? Yeah. Yeah. But it's not like distinct people auction off the raffles for. Dang, man. It's so bizarre. You know that? Oh, yeah. But now, you know, it's just like a fast food restaurant.
Shandin Pete:It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:So let's just put it out there.
Shandin Pete:Let's put it out there. Hey,
Aaron Brien:there, that's just do some
Shandin Pete:ways raffling can have Tim Hortons. Well, I think otherwise. Yeah. What else was in that basket?
Aaron Brien:Yeah, yeah. So what else go for prize number two. We're gonna get all their all eight of our Canadian listeners are gonna be pretty upset. Do you think we lost listeners? Because we took so long to like, get back into I mean, here's here's the thing, though. When we started doing this, especially after the skcc thing ended? Yeah. I really liked the stance we took, which was to like, we're going to do it when we want to do it. Yeah. And we're gonna just be asked when we want to be asked. Yeah, yeah.
Shandin Pete:No, I think so. I think you're right on that. I mean, I don't know, I don't feel like I want to be on a schedule. But I think when there's something that merits discussion, or if we can chat with an interesting individual. Because otherwise, we're just gonna keep talking about the same thing
Aaron Brien:we are in, especially when it comes to scholarship. Like, I want to talk to people doing unique research man. Like, yeah. You know, there's plenty of research being done on important topics. But those topics have also been things that have been revisited by every generation, which is still important work. But for me, in my own thing I like to talk about those podcasts are being done, you know, yeah. And that works been done. And that's, it's good, you know, but yeah, I want to talk about some I will talk about wild Indian man. Yeah,
Shandin Pete:I do, too. I do too. And I think also in that same regard. I think we got to talk about the things that maybe are not so popular, and that kind of make people a little bit upset, you know, otherwise, we're just we're just going to be small In the same old pipe, everybody else is. Flowing, you use that you use the Add metaphor. So I'm going to bust in with some pipe metaphor,
Aaron Brien:some pipe pipe, some pipe metaphor.
Shandin Pete:We're gonna pack that pipe with various
Aaron Brien:orders packed up pipe with the true Indian tobacco.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Organic Of course,
Aaron Brien:organic from Yeah, loins of Mother Earth.
Shandin Pete:But yeah, you know, there's a lot of things happening out there, like you said, in scholarship, outside of scholarship, even even on the periphery. That I mean, I don't agree with it. But I don't I don't think I quite understand it. And I think discussing it helps. Yeah, to know if I'm, if I'm thinking wrong or crazy. Maybe I'm way off, man,
Aaron Brien:I think to like, topics that are semi comical, but like, still, like a legitimate question ask. Yeah, example. Why are we still so loyal to Pendleton blankets? It's a weird, it's I don't know, I don't get it. I mean, I don't get it. It's like in us like, and I'm like, wow, it is? I don't know. So and also questions like, understanding the true impact of like, Christianity on on tribal people not and not that same. Like that same. Oh, we were forced, and we were forced, because I'm kind of beyond that topic. Because now I'm like, It's interesting how we've re ascribed to set the word, or well use it re re ascribes resubscribe. I don't think that's a let's go for it. Bri is kind of substituted. Yeah, our belief. And we've turned, we've we've turned Christianity into something that I don't even know if Christians would like like it, you know? Yeah. Like they say, it's the man. That's not something that's totally functional within the church's doctrine, but then it's also not something that fits wholly within tribal people. But for some reason, we've managed to make it. I wouldn't say we've made it work, but we've used it. And we've done it to ourselves. It's really interesting to me, there's a paper that was published by Dr. Tim McCleary, on CRO Pentecostalism. Right. And it's just really interesting, because I'm not attacking anyone's belief. But I mean, I kind of am to like, you. We can't. Is it good enough to just believe in something just because we were taught to believe in it? You know? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I have a friend that I kind of grew up with. He's a non Indian fella who listens to the podcast. Okay, my name's Peter. Oh, Peter. He's a Braves fan. Atlanta. Braves fan. All right. So congratulations, Peter. Yeah, thank you, Peter. He's a minister, I believe. Oh, but he's listening to the podcast. And I've take some jabs at the church stuff. And it seems to take you're pretty cool, because I think he appreciates a good conversation for one thing. Right. And, and so those are the kind of listeners I think we want, you know, people who are like, willing to challenge their own thoughts. Yeah, I'm not right. I don't even really know if I know what I'm talking about. But I'm a product of all of that, you know? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Well, yeah. Yeah, no, you're you're saying an important thing. You're saying one thing that's very important in in that that I think we should all, I guess, consider. And that's, that's, you know, we can't get so invested in in what's right and wrong, that we become entrenched. This is the academic talk entrenched in what we think is the truth.
Aaron Brien:Here's the other thing, too, that I noticed with native peoples, we've adopted this concept of, well, this is how I feel has been gospel, you know, as being truthful. Yeah. Well, yeah. When I think feelings are valid, for sure. Yeah. But our culture and our heritage, especially in the Rockies, here and in the northern plane, right. People don't realize it's, there is kind of a center line to follow. And there is it is cutthroat, especially in our last three 400 years. Yeah. People want to kind of give us this like crystal observing kind of dream catcher thing, and it's like, man, it's it's, it's not like that. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. I think the future the field, like you saying about the Christianity, the Pentecostalism, you know, that's, those are, I don't know. I don't know. No, it's It's like it's a time that you you reflect on that was kind of kind of bad and can terrible. But we took what we took what we needed out of it. And when we move forward, and we're using it today, and
Aaron Brien:we use it, use it in a way back up. And we use it as a way. So like, yeah, just like there's people who use the sweat. As a way, this is a way we use, for whatever reason, right? The church has become that for Native people. That's why I always think like if we were to get a ministry from someplace else and bring it to the rest. Yeah. And they see the way we use the church, that they would say like, this isn't even they're using it like a medicine. Yeah, like the pod the pod churches, and that's the Yeah, like the jump dances and things like that, like they use it. Yeah. It's a way that someone can sponsor somebody can say, I want you to use this way to pray for me or to ask for good things for me or something. Yeah. And it just seems essential. And I didn't I mean, that's not that's not what today's topic is about. But, but it contributes to that frenzy thing that Ben was talking about, which is such a cool word, because that's the best plus, it's like, it's such a, like, sums it up, man.
Shandin Pete:We had to get him back on and we had to discuss this further, that we should see if we can get some more of his time. But no, you're right. You're right. And how do you put it in? And I think we've talked about it a number of times already. That you know, we're not we're not a static, we're not a static people. We're practical, we're going to use what's available to us. And the idea of the Puritan the pure tennis idea of going back to something that was long ago, is this not reality? I don't think and maybe maybe it maybe it's arguable point. But I you know, if if you get on that road, and you want to go back to the days of our ancestors have long ago, traveled the plains aimlessly.
Aaron Brien:That's, that's what we're talking about today. Like this concept of identity like that identity. Somebody in that time was looking back. And their childhood was different from there. Yeah. Yeah. Before the horse before the rifle before it like yeah, you know, it just, yeah, it's all it's never it never still, you know? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:So it's like, talked about about about, but to hold we talk, who did we talked to about this about recording? Like recording things with the with the audio or technology? And how some would say, oh, you can't do that. Because those are, those are songs or what should never be recorded? And who said that? I mean,
Aaron Brien:yeah, I wonder where that comes from. Because like, I understand the sanctity of ceremony, but then maybe that came from a generation where preservation wasn't an issue with if you want to learn these songs, you will talk to John, if John's at home, you would talk to Marcus or something, you know. Or one now John and Marcus aren't even they don't even exist anymore. I mean, yeah. Obviously, some cultures still are thriving, decent, but we're all facing the same thing. Which is high rate of culture loss. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I don't want no freakin hardcore conservative guy to come back and say, while we're all dealing with that, no, you're not. America's not America's not dealing with the same thing.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I don't know. So this
Aaron Brien:episode, I'm sorry, if I offended No,
Shandin Pete:no, no, no, we can't. We can't do that no more. We have to learn to be offended. But to learn to be offended, man, I think that's that's one of the things where we're at right now, we're so concerned that we don't want to say something that's gonna offend somebody, even though we think that we think that this other thing might be true. And if we can ever talk about those things, even amongst our own indigenous folks, and then we're gonna have a hard time progressing forward, we're just going to keep repeating the same old thing, the same tired message without, without any action or example of that. I mean, I don't know how many times you hear the that traditional thinking is holistic, but not really any great examples of how and why that happens.
Aaron Brien:I don't think it is holistic.
Shandin Pete:And I know we talked about this and I remember mentioning I think, man if I thought holistically all the time. I just been overwhelmed. I've been, I've been just going crazy. I mean, it's we're humans, man. We're all humans.
Aaron Brien:We all think it's just kind of a hijacking of the term like we project the term holistic, when really what it meant was that I think people have confused the term influence from the natural world and holistic. It's the same thing. Right, right. Right. Yeah. But I know, I know, plenty of people who I would deem some of the most knowledgeable cultural people are in touch with their way of life. And yeah. And that are not holistic. And there's a reason for it. Because their way the way they're using doesn't allow for that to be indirect. Yep. Very, very see. Yep. Very ABC and actually pretty linear. Yes. Very linear. Yeah. And Michael Prometheus said, This visiting one time, me and him in the end, he just said, you know, I always hear people say that talk about, we think in circles, and he said, No, I don't know. We've hijacked that, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not saying, course we're gonna offend people by this too. But, I mean, I think we have to rethink all that stuff that was born out of the 70s, which was typically done for curriculum.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Learning learning styles of the Native American MX their circular thinkers. They don't look you in the eye, but it's not a sign of disrespect. Hey,
Aaron Brien:what do you do? What the whole look in the eye thing? Because I call BS on now. And
Shandin Pete:well, yeah, I mean, everybody does now so but like, we should talk about it. But you know what, this episode here today is kind of just gonna kick kick us back into the spirit of things. Number one, we're going to talk about some some tough things I at least I want to I want to challenge
Aaron Brien:let's, let's think of this kind of as like our tribal research specialist. 2.0. Like, this is where taken off, man we're taking off. Yeah, this is the disclaimer that if you don't like critiquing yourself as an indigenous person, this is not the podcast for you. Turn it off. Turn it off. God put on everybody else rein them.
Shandin Pete:But tell a couple friends first about it.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, yeah. And who doesn't like Everybody Loves Raymond? Oh, yeah. Everybody Loves Raymond,
Shandin Pete:witty, funny,
Aaron Brien:witty, funny now, he's rival Seinfeld,
Shandin Pete:I believe. I bet about 60% or 80% of our listeners don't even know what that show is
Aaron Brien:enough. No, I had a really good conversation today. I was talking to this guy. Yeah, at work. And we started talking about understanding like oral histories and stuff. Yeah. And it was cool, because my job really allows for some pretty badass conversation, man. Yeah. Where there's a generation of Crow people, obviously, are disconnected from crow belief in culture. But there's also like some really young guys, by young I mean, under the age of 35, right, under the age of 40. Really? That Magnar kind of willing to question the status quo, you know, Oh, yeah. Which is very unlike the CRO community, which was always been like, the authority, the CRO authority, say, this is the way it is. So that's what meaning the cultural cultural authorities, man, it's pretty cool to kind of visit with some of these younger guys, and a lot of them are younger than me. And they think real similar to the way I think. Yeah. It's like, refreshing, man. It's refreshing because to me, it's like, even if it's culture is on me alive under hand, under a few people. I feel like it's gonna be the right thing. Yeah, you know? Yeah. But I think it's happening on other reservations, too.
Shandin Pete:Well, yeah, that's I was gonna say this, this younger generation, they're, I think they're demanding more, you know, they're demanding more, I think we have a lot more access to, to, to materials from our past, through preservation. And I think we've gone through a period of, I guess, really trying to dig into that and understand our own philosophy. And I think that I think these younger folks are starting to embrace that and you can see it in number one in what we first talked about the identity, our identity, it's, they're starting to be it seems to me they're starting to become a bit more authentic. Where you're saying, Okay, I, I know where I come from now. I know something about the history, and I know all the ugly stuff and all the you know, all that stuff that we we toil about, but I know all the good stuffs I can learn all the good stuff about Our past and how it was, was a benefit in. So what happens after the frenzy? That's what I'm that's what I'm curious about this this, this this renaissance of native thought? I don't think we're there. I don't think we're even the peak yet. No, I think we're way too scared in a way to challenge each other. We're pretty quick at jumping on non non Indigenous non native folks about understanding us Yep.
Aaron Brien:internally? We don't we don't do that we don't do that within ourselves.
Shandin Pete:No, we do it in a in a paternalistic way like, like, like the holdovers from the 60s 70s. You know, where were we we got stuck in in a way that we thought was, or some people thought was authentic. And
Aaron Brien:sometimes I even hear people like, quote, statistics. And they'll be like, we're tired of this. Blah, blah, blah, percent of people are mistreat, and I'm like, these statistics are even from that time, right? Yeah. Yeah, I would say if we were to really, really argue and, and kind of try to be honest with ourselves is the majority of native people. The majority of native people is Christian, which is usually a reflection of kind of colonized behavior, right? I'm not and people can take colonize. However, they want to take it as a negative, it's positive progression. And so whatever. I'm just I'm just saying that. You don't want to. Well, I'm just saying that position.
Shandin Pete:I don't come on man. Okay, yeah. I don't Well, we'll get into that later.
Aaron Brien:Because I don't know. I don't know. Okay, yeah, I'm making stats up here.
Shandin Pete:We did a colonial scholar on here that we can challenge and that's that's that game, you remember, you showed me
Aaron Brien:that thing one time about superficial conversion. And I'm not attacking the church, what I'm using is the church as an example of kind of where we are and yeah, culture and, and, and I heard, I heard a guy give a lecture one time about society. And each society is built like an organism. And inside the organism, are some basic elements. And religion is actually part of that. Now, people say religion is a social construct, construct. But it really is a social necessity. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a part of culture, but it's been a part of every culture pretty much in existence. Yeah, now, it's there, no matter what you do. So that means when you replace that, and you pull that religion out of the organism, and immediately has to replace it with something else, right.
Shandin Pete:It has to Yeah, because it's it's a Yeah, it's a part of so by.
Aaron Brien:For Christian, I'm not saying that. What I'm not saying is like i All you guys are this. I'm saying because of the lack of made of believe it has to substitute itself for something. And usually the go to is to church. The second is kind of this idea that I don't believe in anything. Yeah. Which is still a belief in itself, you know? Yeah. I believe
Shandin Pete:in nothing. Nothingness. Yeah, man. Yeah,
Aaron Brien:I don't know. That too heavy for first episode by
Shandin Pete:bringing me down. I'm kind of depressed.
Aaron Brien:Well, I'm talking about the frenzy. The frenzy. Oh, okay. Yeah,
Shandin Pete:let's get back to the frenzy. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:Where's this all? Week?
Shandin Pete:No, no, we're not at the peak. I don't know where we're at. I don't know where the peak we're not at the peak where
Aaron Brien:you don't actually think we're at is that we're looking at the mountain looking
Shandin Pete:at the mountain. So you're speaking pretty metaphorically today. I'm glad that you've moved home. In that year embracing your Oracle talk. I like it. You brought up ants. Like, you just have to have that kind of deeper voice. accent.
Aaron Brien:Like in Canada, so.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I brought up metaphor, too. So
Aaron Brien:you said the peak. Yeah. So I sit at a peak and not thought of a mountain. I'm like, I don't even don't even climbing I think we're just now being like, Hey, we got this in front of us, you know,
Shandin Pete:climbing the peak. You can talk and metaphor. You're okay, man.
Aaron Brien:You're okay. I'm so messed up right now.
Shandin Pete:We had an episode about this. We've talked in depth. We're going to revisit some of this material. This is what I want to do was I want to do in the next. I don't know, whatever episodes we produce. I want to revisit some of those things we talked about. And I want to expand on those further, because I think we we've both learned learned a number of things in these discussions, but we've learned a lot of things from our guests. So I think why I think the next thing is yeah, we need to bring up, of course, more topics that are important. But I think we need to expand on some of these, these ones that keep reoccurring. Because how many how many academic conferences have you gone to? Where you get the same message? How many YouTube videos can you watch about indigenous science indigenous?
Aaron Brien:The combination that is
Shandin Pete:the engine of indigenous anything and you're going to get the reoccurring theme? Oh, yeah. Number seven, over and over. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. So a good example is we don't you know, our way of thinking we don't compartmentalize our thoughts. And the Medicine Wheel divides things into four equal quadrants. Isn't that isn't that compartmentalizing?
Aaron Brien:You brought up the medicine? I did. I heard it. I heard you brought
Shandin Pete:it but but this thing we're gonna do it gently. In the, in the, in the fashion that is
Aaron Brien:no, we're not because we don't get anything gentle. Like we're not. We're not like, we're pretty loud and obnoxious people, which is cool. I mean, it's fine. But um, I think he did. This frenzy, that I keep coming back to okay with the band thing is like, it got my mind perplexed because I never thought of it as a frenzy. In fact, I forgot about that conversation completely. Yeah. So when you played the clip, I was like, Man, that is a sec perfect. It's a frenzy. And it's kind of this chaos. And because the identity is being attacked by ourselves or by whatever. Yeah, it creates insecurity and people. Yeah, so then the frenzy even becomes more abrupt. You're right. You know, right. Yeah. So we're kind of in this really hard core, like, who am I, you know,
Shandin Pete:are constantly trying to validate who you are?
Aaron Brien:Oh, every chance you get all the time? And I honestly think yeah, some of that land acknowledgement stuff is born out of that. Yeah. Some of that. Some of the, the constant need to have your own st page in your own. I mean, it's, it's kind of like, well, good example is it's real common and Crow. It's actually at a certain generation, that flathead, it was the same but traditional Indian man would dress Western. Yeah, yeah. Boots. Yeah, it's belt, cowboy hat. Nice shirt. But button up shirt. And in fact, crows still very much like that. Blackfeet is like that. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:That's ammonium. Aware. That's yours. Yeah. Ammonium.
Aaron Brien:People attack that. Like, they'll say like, well, you guys. You guys think here. Traditional new dress like the colonizer like? Yeah, I'm like, well, oh, uh, I don't know. I mean, not even know how to make the argument. I don't know how to even be like, what? That's a weird thing to attack, you know, of all the things that occurred. But but that's born out of existence, or insecurity. Yeah, yeah, hold that whole interaction that attacked the Indian for being a cowboy argument. And I'm sure you've heard it before. It's kind of a real superficial thing. But it's a good example of kind of that insecure argument where it's like, yeah, man, some of the most traditional people I've ever known from any Indian reservation was they were Western? Yeah, I would never, I would never use that as a way to attack them. Because they never had to justify their existence to me. So to me, the way they dressed wasn't like this. Yeah. You know, it's definitely a reflection of a time though.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah. It's less about the outward appearance. It's more about the action. The action, though, of what you're doing. Rather than just look doing it. Yeah. Because you're not. I mean, you hear it all the time. You know, when you're doing those kinds of things. You're not putting on a show. You're not You're not going to, to to be the star of the stage, you're doing your business. And if you want to
Aaron Brien:look really nice, though, you know, you say you should don't dress your raggedy, your raggedy clothes and you kind of try to dress up. Right? I mean, I don't even know where I was going with all that. But just to me, it's kind of sparked the thought when I was talking about insecurity, you know? Yeah, like the ones that suck the mustache like the mustache. Just set the mustache.
Shandin Pete:I mean, it's a popular thing. It was a popular thing. And now today you might think, well, your mustache you're a BIA guy. You got the mustache.
Aaron Brien:That's kind of a stretch. But there's nothing more identifying, though than the red bandana in the Oh, yeah. Yeah. The guy who and I'm not talking about like guys are who are thug life in it but not only kind of see the Indian guy with the long hair and he chose to read that, like you automatically assume you're like oh man, let's see if we can get that guy to pray. Yeah, get that guy to sit in the AME song it get him to the invocation. Hey, if any of our listeners know who compose the AME song, I want to know who did it.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, somebody knows somebody. Nobody knows. Somebody knows and yeah, we talked we talked about Yeah, we talked about that a bit.
Aaron Brien:Let's turn a corner here. Let's do a mute. Let's do a little music review. You better listen to any good Indian music. No. No,
Shandin Pete:I live in I live in a non musical life right now. I haven't I've been I've been getting I've been getting down with them. That's what I've been doing. I've been taking these old. Like, like, like the old anthropologists, you know, how they documented some music in the music scores. You know, I've been taking those and with them older priests. And I've been I've been putting those into into the, into the computer there and kind of kind of trying to get a sense of what what those songs might have sounded like, that's what I've been up to. I hardly listen to anything besides that these days.
Aaron Brien:And then talking a lot about a lot of people but that Graston ceremony. Yeah, more. Yeah. And there's some talk of it kind of in a jumpstart. In some good news, the crows to kind of revitalize to ceremony called the The retrieving of the war bonnets. And it was kind of cool. They did it on Veterans Day. And it hadn't been done in quite some time, like 20 years or some.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah, we were down there when they were. They did something like that. That in large grass.
Aaron Brien:I think you're talking about the Shoshone dance.
Shandin Pete:Oh, that was different. Okay. Yeah, it
Aaron Brien:is a war. It's a war honoring a deed. A deed. Oh, man. The other day I heard this guy talking about some kids he named he needed a kingdom six six enemies. Scold year ago Ish. Ish go to his his six enemies. And I thought, Man, that's a cool name is about Vietnam is a Vietnam guy. And yeah. had an interaction with six Vietnamese enemies.
Shandin Pete:I think that's it. I think that's another I think that's a whole nother topic we had a chat about is the reclaiming of our names. I don't know if that's a thing around Indian country, if you will, but you know, abandoned and yeah, we are the
Aaron Brien:interesting non podcast conversation. Right. So maybe that needs to kind of get revisited. Yes. We'll save name. Let's do an episode on names. Do
Shandin Pete:any names. Let's do it. We do it. Let's do it. And we need somebody Well, we can just chat about it. But you might we might have it'd be
Aaron Brien:cool to have a third person like from a different tribes. We kind of get a trifecta. Try a trinity, if you will.
Shandin Pete:Trinity do it. It
Aaron Brien:seems like this whole podcast is us kind of thinking a lot about stuff we will talk about.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I think so. That was kind of my point. That was kind of one of my objectives in this episode is what's coming down the road. What's coming down the road? What What can you expect? But I hope you know, I hope that we could get some folks who and this is the one I really want is the one who's disagree with us. That we can have a chat.
Aaron Brien:Yeah, that'd be cool, man.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. I mean, I want to argue but I want to have a discussion on an advance our own thought. That's what we need, man. We need the person who says these guys are full of baloney man. Has anybody said anymore? i You're full of baloney. Oh,
Aaron Brien:you're full of baloney. You're full of baloney. I brought the music thing because I really purchased ego was so live at Croke fair. Yeah, man, that's a wicked recording man.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that is I would listen to that and ages and ages so
Aaron Brien:me neither it been like 15 years probably since I listened to Eagle whistle live at Crow Fair. So if anyone's out there it on your Indian house.com.com.com and in order yourself a copy. I know he doesn't do any other format. So then desk but man, this is a wicked recording and is about as traditional as singing you can get the last 40 years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. That was kind of an odd thing. But I really been kind of getting back into music. You know? Sing it not singing but just music, you know? Yeah.
Ben Pease:And
Aaron Brien:man, it's there was some it's almost like we overlooked an entire F preservation effort in straight singing. Yeah. Between Mandarin eagle was so big bear Pipestone Badlands, Blackfoot crossing like this whole because that way of singing almost died out completely. Yeah. You know, it was like it took it away it was a successful preservation effort. Yeah. And we don't ever think of it that way. No, no, because always recreation. Right, right. So we don't ever think of it as like, we talk about language preservation culture, but that specific style of seeing. Yeah, I'm going to send you a recording from the 60s. And so we'll start the next episode with that record, man. It's an old recording. So it's not real clean. Maybe you can clean up a little bit and
Shandin Pete:do it, man. I'm down. Yeah. All right. So are we done? Get done talking. Yeah, we're done. We're done. Oh, going out. I'm going off for you, man. I couldn't get
Aaron Brien:up. I know, I can't I can't get I can't get a word in edgewise.
Shandin Pete:I couldn't, I couldn't. I'm gonna I'm gonna do the numbers and I probably only 20% of the time. All right. Thank you for joining us on this episode. And if you want to learn more about what we're up to go ahead and search tribal research specialist in Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube. And check out our other sites. Yeah. And if you want to contribute to the show, go ahead and look us up on Patreon. We would appreciate your donation it's gonna get better too. All right, next episode next episode.