#52 - Authenticity Under Surveillance: A Native’s Guide to Being Yourself…Everywhere!

Archive music and recording techniques. 0:00 
Native American music styles and cultural influences. 5:37 
Tribal engagement and cultural resource management. 13:59 
Tribal consultation and engagement in BLM meetings. 20:16 
Identity and cultural expression. 28:12 
Identity and spirituality. 33:02 
Cultural preservation and learning. 37:50 
Indigenous identity and research methods. 45:44 
Positionality and self-location in indigenous contexts. 50:37 
Indigenous methodology and privilege. 54:30 
Crow fair traditions and announcing rights. 1:00:28 
Cultural rights and knowledge transfer. 1:05:16 
Self-location and cultural authenticity. 1:11:45 

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2024, February 18). #52 - Authenticity Under Surveillance: A Native’s Guide to Being Yourself…Everywhere! [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/953152/14523475

How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast].  Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/

Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Transcript

Shandin Pete: 0:00

Ask them what the heck you want say we're busy with ice casting.

Aaron Brien: 0:03

Just sending me memes.

Shandin Pete: 0:06

Oh yeah, come on 10 are really in to some drama. Oh, come on. We you know you own all of North America

Aaron Brien: 0:15

that was one of them the other day writes it showed the state of Montana and said everything and blue are some territory. I really bested him and I was like settle down do you live in Missoula bro? Don't matter what you had. What do you yeah what do you have you on Higgins bro so

Shandin Pete: 0:46

you're living next to bear tracks bridge

Aaron Brien: 0:54

you're putting the fence all right. All right. Let's do this man. Let's do it. Let's do it. Man. Can you hear me? Am I good? You're good. Good

Shandin Pete: 1:18

sound sounds good. Sounds real good. Yeah. Well, let's um you know I got a better solution got me a reel to reel player slash recorder. For my for my birthday photo for Christmas. My birthday hasn't happened. And I've been slowly going through these reel to reels. And there's some good music on here man, man, but it's some of it's kind of not recorded well because the tapes are old enough. I'm gonna show you one of these and I've been doing the ones that are unlabeled.

Aaron Brien: 2:00

Yeah, first trying to get a photo here for your photo

Shandin Pete: 2:04

I've been doing the ones that are unlabeled. And I'm going to show you an example of one of these now lucky enough that there's a narrator on here sort of easy a clue where it's taken it will let you listen to this and with your advanced knowledge of Native American music I'm going to see if you can figure out the origin of this clip here we go you hear that? You probably can't hear it cuz I didn't share the sound in yeah doing that stupid let's do it again. I really built it up and I just dropped it right here grab the ball you ready? Here we go. Yeah, there it is oh this is raw like that be I know miracles gets you right there good learns oh man here we go that a little slow down Yeah, well,

Aaron Brien: 5:31

okay, so it's either from crow flathead or Naspers.

Shandin Pete: 5:37

Yeah. Am I right? Well, well, well by default because you know where these these came from came from Mr. Larry Parker, who was Salish Nez Perce and traveled extensively in the Blackfeet territory and among the crows.

Aaron Brien: 5:57

Well that I didn't know that.

Shandin Pete: 5:59

Oh, you know that okay. Okay, we didn't know that. Here though. He had a tape. I had a tape, one time of him recording songs and really sad because I lost it. But he sings the songs, and he names all of them. And I remember when he said this is the this is a Donald deer Nose Special. And he sings it then he named Yeah, and he names all these things and he just keep singing for like the whole these whole this 90 minute tape front and back. That's gold man. That is and I lost it. I lost it. So disappointed but anyway. Yeah, you're right. So within that that region

Aaron Brien: 6:41

I the sound to me. Yeah. So the sound there's a sound that comes from like, the flour, Indians, flour Indians. Was that, like, beadwork and stuff?

Shandin Pete: 6:55

Oh, okay. Not like waiting for flour. No, like,

Aaron Brien: 6:59

like, like, around in our area. See, to me the Blackfeet have a very distinct sound. Yeah, they do. They're, they're actually I'm gonna be honest. I'm a big fan of it. Yeah, I am. I've always liked that sound. Yeah, you listen to like the Lakota people and kind of over there. It's distinct, but it's never been like my think like, I've come. I've been Yeah, but we know like Fort Berthold. There's a sound there. Yeah, it's probably what a lot of singers have emulated is from there. Yeah. But I would say that sound that the flatheads kind of did. I hear it in some of that Nez Perce stuff Shoshone kind of a little bit but like those seem to have adopted a little bit of that. Yeah, and it's it's the it's the song making structures different. Yes. It's melodically pleasing. Where the Blackfeet it's it's their beat. I've always loved that beat they kind of do up there like Blackfoot crossing. Six Ramblers and then guys, yeah, but their songs style was, yeah, it was good. But it was like a sharper sound, you know, like, sharp, like,

Shandin Pete: 8:17

it reminded me what I'm saying. I do. It reminds me of like, like, like pouring out a really thick liquid, you know, like pouring out a thick liquid kind of fast. It's kind of got that little wave to it. You know? That's what that music kind of sounds like, you know, it's Oh, that's

Aaron Brien: 8:33

a good. That's a good analogy. Yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete: 8:38

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Whereas if you go east, you know, like you said, overnight, sort of decoders, it, I mean, it all sounds good. You know, let's just put the different style. But that one sounds more like it's pushing the beat. When you get over into the East, you know, it's almost sounds like it's almost on the beat. Not quite, but it's just it's like pushing it to be

Aaron Brien: 8:59

pushed not be. And that to me, that's very like their song. To me, it feels like the song and the piano are two different things. And they just happen to meet. Yeah, we're like, yeah, Blackfeet is not the beat, the beaten in the melody, or even. Yeah, the way the songs composed is it's like, it's exactly how you would think it would be I do. A lot of people probably won't like that, that I said that but I liked that Blackfoot style of singing. I think it's cool, man. Yeah, Agreed.

Shandin Pete: 9:37

Agreed. Yeah, so that was that some that's up in the blood country there. That was apparently on the end of the reel. It narrates who's who's in it in it. The person narrating it. His name is Charlie bull shield. And his wife I guess was name was Irene prairie chicken and they mentioned No singers from Moses Lake all agency and big corner those those areas up there

Aaron Brien: 10:07

and they name a big corner.

Shandin Pete: 10:09

Yeah name off some folks that are in there. Willie Eagle plume Frank black rabbit. I don't know any of these names. Tony wolf child Alan Wolf Chow, Jimmy, Chief calf and I think he says somebody by the name of Mars shouting maybe I couldn't hear it too well. But yeah, put in blood blood country. They're pretty cool. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna show you a different one. And this one is very distinct and you can probably pick it out right away whether where this comes from. You're ready for it. But

Aaron Brien: 10:42

I don't know. I'm not I'm not I don't have I don't have it like I used to. So yeah, this

Shandin Pete: 10:46

one's pretty, pretty distinct. And I bet you be able to pick it right out because you'll hear the difference between like pouring out a real creamy substance, you know, that kind of oh, I just like a wave. You know, just the wave that keeps coming. That's it. That last one sound like now listen to this one. Ready? Yep, I know. You're ready. Here we go.

Aaron Brien: 11:08

I'm listening. Yep,

Shandin Pete: 11:10

okay

Aaron Brien: 11:44

that's from your country. You can just tell anything. Yeah, you can tell but see that beat way that beat? Yeah, that's similar to what I was talking about pro like Yeah. It's he watched listen to the song. It'll feel like someone took two bodies and put them together play it watch Yeah, that seems like an unnatural drop to me. But I liked the song. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 12:39

Good song. Yeah, you could tell the difference.

Aaron Brien: 12:44

That I would say is different about crow style of singing versus over there. Yeah, it's like your guys's beat. It was always a little more choppy. It seemed like a little more. You know, not a bounce. Like there's not like a bounce. Yeah. Yeah. And I always wondered how much stick game influenced the way people sing.

Shandin Pete: 13:05

Yeah, I wonder I wonder that too. And I wonder how I wonder if the will Okay, so. So if I listened to some of the old old word dances like that was sort of recorded early earlier than sort of the 50s and 60s, you know, where there was, there wasn't that sort of word dance from the well, I don't know what it I guess the more popular and emerging power style of singing you know, where it's where to style from the North was influencing and the style from the east was influencing where it was just when they would sing war dances to actually get ready for war. You can hear that sort of bounce in there. It's a lot different. It evolved into something else that you hear that you heard there today. And I didn't know I don't know why it did that. And I bet what you said it's probably influenced by some of the other singing traditions, you know. And

Aaron Brien: 13:59

because to me, stick game. I don't think so. Game songs. But yeah, when I meet guys who are active in both, there's a there's a dip, there's like a lack of the bounce. Now you look at like, people who sing hand game songs those double beat hand game songs. Oh, yeah. melodically they're like structured different. They're like real pretty they're like designed to be like this kind of upbeat where I think Sikkim accompanies a game where hand game songs are almost like the centerpiece. They're like yeah, people who play hand games and you have people who sing hang game yeah, we're like stick game is kind of this blended. It's it's to accompany something. Look at like John John and dry lake. He's a pretty good hand game singer. Oh, yeah. And in there be is like, tight. It's real tight. So I wonder. I wonder. I mean, how Would you even like study that? You know? Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 15:03

I don't know, man. I don't know, these. I know, you've probably seen some of those ethnomusicologists reports and those kinds of things. Yeah. Yeah, they talk real deep and heavy in sort of like the music genre. You know, this is a nice seventh Pentameter of the fifth. Yeah. And, you know, anyone understand,

Aaron Brien: 15:25

but also they don't understand music, our music because our music doesn't fit into that. Yeah, that model of singing structure. Yeah, it's different. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 15:38

They're analyzing it from their their own music tradition, which doesn't quite

Aaron Brien: 15:43

it doesn't quite meet no one. I mean, there's some pretty good efforts. And, and they can describe it. They can describe it pretty good

Shandin Pete: 15:50

to another person of them, you know?

Aaron Brien: 15:54

Yeah. But it's so disconnected. It's like sterile.

Shandin Pete: 16:01

And let me get my piano out. And I'll see what the sounds yeah, that's

Aaron Brien: 16:05

that was very flathead, very Salish. Sorry, I shouldn't say flathead, my bed.

Shandin Pete: 16:12

Oh, yeah. You're You're a fan. You're being offensive. Yeah. That's pretty cool, man. So what you want to talk about now? It's good on your mind.

Aaron Brien: 16:22

Whatever man I've been up to we haven't recorded in a while.

Shandin Pete: 16:27

It's been

Aaron Brien: 16:28

my job. I haven't traveled a whole lot. Went to Phoenix last week. For BIA, I gave a training, National Training Center for the BLM line officers training schools, what it's called.

Shandin Pete: 16:48

Yeah. Would you tell them? Oh, man, how are you training them on?

Aaron Brien: 16:55

So it's supposed to be like on on consultation? Oh, okay. So this law that I'm very active in now, section 106, of the National Historic Preservation Act. But there's all this other stuff that comes along with it, like this tribal engagement component that the feds are required to have now, right? So it's part of this code stewardship mandate, government to government relationships, it's all this right? So yeah, what people are doing is they're blending the two together, which sometimes that's good blending, in which two together, the section 106 component of the National Preservation Act, and then this this other monster, which is government to government, tribal engagement, coasters. Oh, okay. Almost like the humanitarian part of the social justice part of the thing where this, this is a federal law that requires them to, to take into account the adverse effects to potential adverse effects to cultural resources, not designated as a tribal thing. It just, it's just to take into account it can be historic buildings, whatever. Yeah. By default, it seems to have become a tribal, like, it's really used by tribes a lot to fight companies or whatever. So anyway, I go down there to give this talk. Yeah. And it was, it was good. My talk was really on, like, what is consultation? How do you do it? How does it function? Where does it not function? And how can the BLM get better at it? Well, I didn't realize like how little these guys these line officers, which are like, field supervisors and stuff they didn't know. So afterwards, I get on a panel. So I'm sitting on this panel and the panel, after I had done my hour long talk, I gave a little talk at the beginning eight in the morning on prayer, kind of my idea of what prayer is because I'm kind of, I'm against. I'm against prayer before meetings. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 19:04

You made that clear? Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 19:06

I'm not against prayer. That's that, that for some reason, people think that means because I've even had people say like, oh, Aaron doesn't believe in prayer. You're ridiculous. You know, you're ridiculous. It's more about timing and like, situation, what's appropriate. So yeah, I give this talk about what I've seen, and CRO ceremony, and really what I've just seen in my life, like what, what to me seems tribal and what seems to be more appropriate? Yeah. So I give this 1520 minute or whatever. 10 minute talk at the beginning. Come back, do this one hour talk with some q&a. And then I'm on a panel. Now I'm on a panel with some BLM. It's all BLM people. I'm the only tribal government rep there's tribal people there but they work for the government. Yeah, yeah. As, as they're talking people are asking questions and different members of the panel are feel fielding these questions. Yeah, I kind of get like annoyed.

Shandin Pete: 20:15

These are all non native books.

Aaron Brien: 20:16

Yeah. I mean, there's a lady, but she's very much and no disrespect to her. But she's very much BLM, you know? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of patting on the back, like, hey, you know, we can do this. We're doing it. This is what we're doing blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And so I'm kind of getting annoyed. Good. I finally there's a little button on on the mic. So I pressed the button. And I'm rude at this point. I didn't wait for the person to quit talking. I just pressed it. And I said, Yeah, I said, I want to say something. Yeah. And I admit, I was a bit rude. I admit that. But I also felt a sense of like, a they asked me to be here. Yeah, yeah. And so I just freaking I went off, man. I ruin the moment. I like went. And I basically, like trashed everything everybody was saying. And I said, You know what? This is like, ridiculous. Really, when you think about it, I said, this gentleman I pointed at this guy said asked us asked about a letter sending section 106 letters to tribes. He's asking how to do that. Yeah. I just spent an hour talking about a fairly good detailed explanation of tribal consultation. This field manager doesn't know how to send a letter. Yeah. And I said, You guys aren't. You're not even there yet. I wasted you know, I wasted my time pretty much is what I said. Yeah. So I'm talking like, all this ideal stuff. But the reality is, you guys don't even know how to send letters. And you're asking me how you guys should send letters. Have you ever just called you the tribes you work with? And say, how do you want these PDFs paper? Do you want us to call you do you want to carry your pigeon to bring them to you? And so then I just kind of got frustrated. I said, there's a lot of patting yourselves on the back. There's a whole lot of like, Look what we did. But you guys aren't doing it. Yeah, nothing's happening. It's just do I do a DOI stuff? Yeah. And then this guy said, I respectfully disagree with you. And then he he says, Our tribes in Northern California says that our tribes, so then he, he talks about how they're like, their successes in consultation, right. Yeah. I'm thinking like I said, Okay, well, with the exception of Northern California who's doing it right. Everybody else is doing it wrong. I said, I work with six different field offices in three different states, and that none of them are doing it right. But Northern California is doing it right. And I said, or they, the tribes you're working with don't know the potential. They don't know what they can get and how they can be successful. So in their mind, they're getting a lot from you. Yeah. So their inner your interaction with them is pleasant, because they don't know. They don't know what they can get. Yeah. And I see you're feeding them spat. I said this in front of everybody. I said, and I liked this line. This is okay. I'm gonna give myself I said you're feeding them spam while you're eating ribeyes Rick, you get hurt. And then he just kind of like faded into the back and you can tell people were like, What the hell Jim? Shut up.

Shandin Pete: 23:57

Spam really? The

Aaron Brien: 24:00

lady next to me, the Idaho State Director goes. I agree with everything Aaron's saying because she was the only one that wasn't doing like the self aggrandizing Oh, yeah. And there was some by the 14th Bee and stuff happening. Yeah, there. There's all I basically got contradicted about my prayer stuff by this lady, another another BLM or a BLM or native person? You just like sit Aaron's basically wrong? Yeah. But she's guests. I want you to guess how old this individual is?

Shandin Pete: 24:30

Probably. Maybe in their 60s. Yeah. 60. Yeah. And

Aaron Brien: 24:38

for me, that's hard to convey that to people to say, Yeah, I know exactly what that generation is going to tell me. I know exactly their response in a good way. This is how this is how we start all of our meetings. bullshit, man. Bullshit. Don't you don't And then then I said, I said, if you guys really did care about your success and tribal consultation and engagement, why am I the only one here? Yeah. Why am I the only person? The only tribal person? What's going on here? Yeah. And I said, kudos to all the tribal people who work for the BLM. But I'm sorry, you're on the BLM. Yeah. You're not you don't represent a tribe. People in the trenches. Man, I, that's where I'll toot my own horn. And this sounds like we're just we're getting real arrogant. So I better stop. But I didn't I never realized when you work for a tribal government, especially in Montana, you're on the front lines, man. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 25:48

you're digging the trench? Dude, you're doing it. You're digging a trench, you're shooting the shots. So I

Aaron Brien: 25:55

was just sitting there. And I sent all of this and then it sparked quite a discussion. So I just turned around to the buffalo Field Office archaeologists Who's the one who got me there, ya know, just my bad. You know what she's like, No, she was into it. You know? Yeah. She she's a firm believer that things have to get awkward. They do. They do have to get awkward has to.

Shandin Pete: 26:19

Yeah. I'm a firm believer in that, too. You know, you know, why do we travel 1000s of miles and spin all these resources to just pat each other on the back? You know,

Aaron Brien: 26:33

I yeah, I'm like you didn't bring me down here? Yeah, that's exactly my thinking. Like, yeah. Did you bring me down here to praise you? Yeah. You got the wrong, man. While I was giving my talk, I was like, I say Indian. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Of course, there's a native lady right in the front row. And I said, Does anybody else have a problem with India? The one native person raises their hand. I said, All right. Well, that's a different talk, you know. And I said, Man, my style is different. I just told him I said, I'm more about success. I don't, I'm not the bridge to divide guy. Yeah. I don't care if you don't like me. Yeah, you can go home, you can talk about me, you can say all the names about my people, whatever. Yeah, we have to get over this like idea like a saint a playground where we all got to get along and play Red Rover. What we have to learn to do is be successful together, what you believe is your business. Right. And there's certain things that that I think are not old to us, but we're entitled to, because of the lack of respect to Native people for it for forever. There's a certain level that's afforded to us. Yeah. You know, in 500 years, when we're all caught up on equality, then yeah, after that, maybe you can say, hey, we don't need to give this native people this level of respect. I don't know. I won't be here. But I'm just saying for right now. Yeah, we're owed a little bit. I'll say it, you know, okay. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 28:12

Let me say it man.

Aaron Brien: 28:13

The reason the reason murder is a felony or it's a crime, it's because somebody did it. Right. Yeah. The reason consultation is is is a is a law that nag press the law religious freedoms, the laws because we're those things weren't allowed. Yeah, you know, it's if people cared about us, we wouldn't have to have these laws so so I'm over the like, accept me for who I am kind of thing because the structure of it isn't designed for that anyway. The structures born out of criminality

Shandin Pete: 28:53

Your Honor repairman, you've been hold on this in about 90 days. It's

Aaron Brien: 28:58

been a while since I've like, hey, actually, you're right. You're right. So I noticed the last time I kind of had like a meltdown on the podcast was I was in Bismarck was and I, you were and it was a while before we had did a podcast. Then when we were stringing some pods together. Yeah, they got friendlier and funnier. It did. Yeah. So anyway, I apologize for that. bottling it up, man. I didn't mean to. Well,

Shandin Pete: 29:29

I don't know. I got to thinking about about a few things. You know, but kind of our whining around about things and I don't know, I thought, well, you know, we should be about solutions. But I think I think you sort of said it is we can't come up with the solution until we all wind around a bit and argue about you know, where our where our views are without without having to you know, placate each other on, on those kinds of things. We just got, we just gotta get it out. You got to get like what? Like, you know, like when when you're in your relationship, you get that good argue, oh, you know you're on the edge, you're just you're like I'm leaving. You're still looking around for your bag and I'm gonna go I'm just gonna go I don't need this, you know, but you stay you stay you stick it out.

Aaron Brien: 30:24

But good argue I like that Oh

Shandin Pete: 30:25

yeah, it's it's in those moments that you know the man the man brain like it has this little like this little growth you know, like a little little, those little synapses sort of connecting you're like, Oh yeah, I finally get what she was saying. I I'm wrong, and I'm wrong and it's okay to admit that it's okay to admit that I'm not going to be any less of a man. But I admit that in it a while to get there though. Oh, man, it does. It takes it takes years of living together and arguing. Yeah, I get it. But

Aaron Brien: 31:06

once it's it's nice, though, to have to get to a point in your mentality where you're okay with being uncomfortable a little bit. And you're okay with being wrong. But you're also okay with resigning, like, here's so you want to win all the time when you're younger? And I admit I kind of I still have some of that. Yeah. Realize people don't realize how many times I've just said, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. And are I'm wrong. Yeah. I doesn't mean, I like it. See, I think that's where people go wrong. Like I've definitely admitted, especially in the last couple of years have I've learned to admit when I'm wrong. Yeah, man, but it doesn't mean I like it.

Shandin Pete: 31:55

Nobody wants to get used to being wrong. And no,

Aaron Brien: 32:00

I bet. I bet 80% of my knowledge comes from insecurity.

Shandin Pete: 32:11

Yeah, yeah, I can. I can relate to that. But let's let me step back a little bit. You're still you're talking about? I don't know, we talked about these things race. I don't know if

Aaron Brien: 32:27

that's just, you asked me.

Shandin Pete: 32:30

No, you said some important things. And there's one thing that I that, that I've been thinking about, somewhat. And that's sort of how, how Native people ought to act. And see, this is I don't know if this is right, how Native people ought to act among their own people, versus how they ought to act when they're not around their own people.

Aaron Brien: 33:00

It's exactly what I was. Yeah. And

Shandin Pete: 33:03

so so this, this ties into the things that we see these phenomenons that we have a nowadays which is I don't know sort of disagree with it, but kind of see the point but the idea of the positionality statement in the self location in the prayer before a meeting in all these seems to be tangled up in that idea of what's what's the authentic Native in these two different sort of context. Like if you're hanging out with that with all your with all year I don't know that your tribesmen you know, your tribe, hanging out with the tribe, you know, at any any any function on the rez, whether it's ceremonial, whether it's social, whether it's customary. Who knows, you act the same, you act a certain way. Because everybody is familiar with what ought to happen in whatever situation that is. That's just a given, you know. But then when you're outside of that context, we're sort of training ourselves to be a particular way that doesn't feel authentic, feels performative. And it feels misplaced. But I think some some of the younger generation and some of the older generation, it feels like and that's become normalized to the point where it's, it's like a hard one to count their act with some sort of authentic evidence to say that, no, this is not really the way we act. But then some people would say, well, we have to be a certain way, because we can't bring that we can't bring that authentic self into these environments because it doesn't fit and doesn't match. I don't know if I'm making any sense

Aaron Brien: 35:00

I mean, yeah, you told me to me why? Because that's exactly kind of what I was talking about. Yeah. With my talk about prayer. Yeah, that's the thing I'm combating. But what comes out is people say, he doesn't believe in prayer. But what I'm what I'm fighting, or what I'm against is that performative nature in us, which I think comes from a John Collier's lifting of the dance band. So he, when we when song and dance and religion was outlawed, he lifted it for the sake of tourism. Right, or tourism in this in, in celebration of our country of our country. Right. So, so that's why there's, like 1,000,000/4 of July, Apollo's, you know, there's like a million policies near train stations, you know, especially these older, older power laws, you know, yeah. And so, it became, it's in our nature now, it's become a part of who we are to give form as a sign of identity. Yeah, because that's what the leader that's legally it was mandated, you know, or Yeah. regulated. So I, unfortunately, you have two things colliding, you had the influences of the church. Now, I'm not saying the boarding school era. Okay. Pre boarding school, no post,

Shandin Pete: 36:25

well, most boarding school, so

Aaron Brien: 36:27

you got to Carlisle Bay cone Haskell era, like the real aggressive stuff right now. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying boarding school wasn't aggressive and regions, but for the most part, yeah. Why the 40s and 50s. It was dwindling down to the point where these these native students were wanting to go to boarding school. Right. You know, but yeah, of course, there's still hardship. There's still things happening. So I'm not discrediting that, but so you have this combination of now people had bought in, yeah, to that education thing and bought in to the church. So that same boarding school era, those old school cats, they're, it's their kids and grandkids, right? They're like believers. Yeah, they're believers, then, so you've now replaced, for the most part, the daily religious expression of your people, doesn't mean ceremonies, not their ceremonies still there. But the daily, the daily had now become replaced by the church. But now you introduce all these concepts that are really Christian? Right? Like, can you imagine there wasn't dinner time? 200 years ago? So when people say we've always prayed for food before the before dinner, we've always someone prayed the guy. Can we ask Grandma, Grandma, can you play for the food? We want to eat? Like, that's it? I'm not against that. What I'm against is people saying it's somehow a traditional Yeah, mission. No, yeah. It only exists because of dinnertime. Yeah. Yeah. So prior to that, we're a grazing people. Now, if somebody came to your home, they might feed that person. That doesn't mean it's dinnertime. Because it's not there. So. And in fact, they would actually make a prayer opposite. So that person was offered food. Then he said, Oh, good. I'll ask for something good for you. You know, you just gave me food. So I'm gonna ask for something nice for you. Yeah. You know, so it's, it was so casual. That's what people don't get is it was so casual. But then all of that gets affected by the church. John Collier lifts the dance ban says you can do it as long as it's for some level of economics for your tribe, and through tourism. So now, all of that stuff gets pushed all together, mismatched. And then now you got this performative nature of tribal people. starting way back in the 20s, you know,

Shandin Pete: 39:04

yeah, no, I could see that.

Aaron Brien: 39:09

That's obviously a very generalized. Oh, yeah. You have what what was going on? So I don't want people to be acting like Aaron's wrong, it was actually 1934. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm wrong.

Shandin Pete: 39:26

The overarching understanding is what you said not the specifics. Well, okay. So pretend pretend we're giving advice what we've done this already. I think we've done this already. And I'm thinking about the young in, you know, highly malleable indigenous scholar who maybe, you know, didn't didn't get a chance to grow up honor, honor. rezz didn't get a chance to, you know, to witness or partake in, in the ceremonial ism that that enforces certain norms that you ought to do and what you ought not to do. What what what advice do you give to that? That individual who's looking for something that feels authentic, but is bombarded continually with things, at least from our thought that feels somewhat off? What advice Yeah. What do you tell them? Biggest

Aaron Brien: 41:41

thing is to be patient, be patient because one thing I see with young learners of their culture, which typically is driven by academics, which is fun, amen. You can see that a lot you notice, like, they go to school, they can influence and that's cool. Like, I'm not dogging that everybody's had that in some level. So like when they're wanting to learn about their people. Maybe it's springboarded by academics.

Shandin Pete: 42:08

Yeah. Which is good. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 42:11

They want to make up for lost time. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 42:15

yeah. Yeah, that's pretty descriptive. There's a rush. There's a rush or rush.

Aaron Brien: 42:21

And then what I see nine times out of 10 is that person burns out on it. And the hat is dwindle off. Yeah. So like, culturally, they they overdo it, but also because of the lack of involvement from young people, our communities over to use them to, they're like, Oh, look at this young person showing interest. Let's friggin bombard them with stuff. Yeah, yeah. Then that person gets overwhelmed. Yeah. And so like, for example, like, as a young man, I wasn't raised in a ultra traditional home. But when we would go to like sweat, my dad would say, help build the fire. So he, man and you would do that. And it's not formal. See, that's the thing. People think this is formal. It's not, it's just something you look back on and say, Oh, I guess what I did was like, I just kind of helped clean up around the sweat. And just by being there, you're learning you learn a lot of stuff. Yeah. And then you might help build the fire, you might help, then you'll bring the rocks and or you might get the blankets and stuff ready, or the water ready and whatever. Yeah, you might be this the guy running the deals, little helper or whatever. And for every tribe, it's a little different. It's a little stricter, in form or whatever. But by the time it's time for you to like, like in your guys's case, run rounds, or like have songs or, for us, it's like having the right to poor by then you had all this informal training, right? Yeah. And what I noticed now is young guys aren't growing up that way. So when they learn about the sweat, they're like, pushed into everything at once. So you got guys now that are pouring in the sweat, and they've never really even had to build the fire, you know, so they're kind of spoiled. They have the authority of sitting in that position. Yeah, they didn't have to, like, for lack of a better term pay dues. So what I see in academics is kind of the same thing, our young learners is that they're learning too much too fast. And everybody's pace is different. So some people can take on, like a lot at once Some people can, it's like, man just learned this, learn this and use this as your cornerstone and kind of build off of that. Yeah. And then, and to me, that's sort of like, if you really want to learn your culture, you learn singing. Oh, yeah, there's no faster way to learn your culture. Yes, songs. I mean, obviously, language language is like, but really like even people who speak their language, go to people who know songs, there's a position Not enough unofficial position that people who sing and no songs have that's even, in some ways higher than people who speak their language, you know? Yeah. It's it worked for me. And I see it with people when they learn to sing. And they learn songs and song structure. They always sit in a position in the best seats in the house. You know, so they're always there, whether it's a Sundance or whatever, they stay there, they're there. They're like, we need them. And there's such a lack of singers. Yeah. That they're, they're needed. But they I noticed the pacing is different when you learn how to sing. They keep you in the singers position for a while, because they it's the necessity. It

Shandin Pete: 45:44

doesn't need somebody to carry the drum. While

Aaron Brien: 45:47

we say, oh, Sean D get over here and help us with the fire or help us do this or help us do that. And then they're like, oh, shit, we got to Sean Dean's got to go back and sing. So because of that, your the patience and the pacing is different. Yeah, that's what I noticed. Yeah. Well, what do I know?

Shandin Pete: 46:07

The classic, the classic Indian man and response. If you dropped a bunch of wisdom and knowledge. Yeah, but what do I know? But what do I know?

Aaron Brien: 46:19

Yeah, what do I know? For Indian boy? And

Shandin Pete: 46:24

know nothing? Nobody cares. Nobody cares what I have to say anyway, though. That's what I have to say. Yeah, okay. So I got no, sorry. I'm done. Nevermind. Sorry. I'm

Aaron Brien: 46:38

done. Probably just go home.

Shandin Pete: 46:45

Man. Yeah, you're on a rant man up. I just give you one little, little cue and you go off. Way to go. Man.

Aaron Brien: 46:55

It's bottled up against you. I miss you.

Shandin Pete: 47:00

This one, I just want to what

Aaron Brien: 47:02

does he say? What is he said? Yeah, this is all over. We should get an apartment together.

Shandin Pete: 47:09

Just get an apartment together. Start a band. I missed you.

Aaron Brien: 47:13

I missed your musk.

Shandin Pete: 47:19

Yeah. Okay. So this is a question. Somewhat related? Because we've talked about this a little bit, but not I don't know if we did. We talked about it indirectly. But I was asked this question by a former guest on the podcast. I think she's kind of a guest, but we kind of were in it all together at the beginning. Selena. Selena Hill. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Much

Aaron Brien: 47:52

respect for Salinas? Certainly not Seelos. Dino.

Shandin Pete: 47:56

Your Selena Zelos. Dean, yours? Yeah. So she asked me this very simple question. And I pondered it for written throughout my response. But I'm curious what your thought is. Now, this is sort of an academic realm, but you probably know a little bit about it. And we'll see what you have to say. What's the difference? Because you see this a lot. And the young scholar and young Indigenous person, whatever, whatever, you know, they should know something about this. What's the difference between positionality and self location? Go?

Aaron Brien: 48:37

South location seems to be a little more pliable. Like it's, it's kind of a self awareness in where to push positionality is permanent. To me, it seems like it has. It has some concreteness to it. Like it's there. It's right there. You know? Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 48:53

Yeah. Very simple, right. I mean, I give both our

Aaron Brien: 48:58

jokes but whatever.

Shandin Pete: 49:03

Well, they're pretty, pretty funny to back on. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna give a very similar response about it. Right. So I said, Yeah, positionality is sort of who you are. Like you said, something you can't change. Right? Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 49:16

So I would say, Yeah, I don't know much about it. But yeah,

Shandin Pete: 49:20

yeah, it's who you are. You just you sort of identify that. Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know why you I don't know why that's a thing. But you know, where I'm, what's become a thing but you know, where I do appreciate it at where I've started to appreciate it more because it lessens sort of my cognitive load is when I have to read a journal article that's about Native things. And so I wonder, well, what's the what where's the author coming from on this? What's their experience? What was their lived experience with indigenous things? And if they stayed it right up front, you know, I'm, I didn't grow up on my reserve or, you know, I was adopted, you know, those kinds of things. then it sort of helps me to understand what they're sort of telling me about what they know where they learned excetera. That's pretty valuable. You know, it's pretty valuable. You don't want to have to look people up and find out their background just just to understand the stance in which they're writing from

Aaron Brien: 50:16

then background it in, unlike a lot of disciplines, indigenous research background is important, man. Oh, yeah. Really a lot of things I'm not qualified to talk about.

Shandin Pete: 50:30

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just, it's exactly, exactly.

Aaron Brien: 50:34

It's not for me, it's not me. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 50:37

And so you can kind of tell from from that sort of positionality statement. But you know, what I think you can also tell without that statement, when you're reading some, that's from a person who's deeply steeped in the traditions and norms of their people, it's pretty clear, just by the way, they're talking about things, you don't really need that. But it gets kind of gray, when it's, I don't know, certain one is talking about certain things becomes sort of unclear. And then the self location seems seems to me to be, like, you're so you're sort of stating, in a way, your your privilege, like, what what your position, the privilege that your position gives you. That's kind of how I described it. So an example would be, you know, I'm, I don't know, like, here, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a native from the States, which gives me a different perspective on, on understanding the indigenous reality here in Canada, but I have a privilege because I sort of understand some of the norms there. They, they sort of crossed the boundary. So it gives me a bit of a privilege. And, you know, that seems to be self locations, kind of like what you said, the things that can change or that are pliable. Like I might have this privilege now, but I may not have it later. That kind of give an example of like, I don't know, like a, like a white banker, a male, white banker, you know, his positionality would be one, a straight male dude, who's, I don't know, almost 50, whatever. That's my position than my self location is because of that. It offers me a privilege in certain contexts, I have I have a privilege over other people, because I'm white. I'm a male. And I work in banking, that seems like self location. That pretty similar to what you said, I think. So this gets me down to the sort of the next question. Do indigenous people have to self locate? I mean, I mean, already, you already said their their joke. But is there an instance where that's important? Because at first, I think, well, indigenous people, we don't necessarily have an inherent privilege, unless you're deep inside your own res, and you're dealing with a bunch of people who aren't from there. That seems like you would have a privilege in some way. It seems

Aaron Brien: 53:23

like we do. Maybe we do kind of do something. But the intent is different, you know? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know, though.

Shandin Pete: 53:32

What do you mean? What do you mean?

Aaron Brien: 53:34

I don't know what I mean. I don't know. I spend the majority of my time on this podcast, trying to keep up with your brain.

Shandin Pete: 53:46

No, this is not this is not advanced stuff. Man. This is one of my

Aaron Brien: 53:49

tactic is just to talk to just out talk.

Shandin Pete: 53:55

I'm gonna do on the next podcast, I got some stats on the percentage of time that we talk on each podcast. I'm gonna I'm gonna want to go through those as well, um, it's not surprising. It's not surprising, but you have to wait. Let the wait and see that. I'll make some bar graphs.

Aaron Brien: 54:15

I feel like you talk a lot more than I think you do, though.

Shandin Pete: 54:19

Maybe? I don't know. I feel like mine. In

Aaron Brien: 54:21

my mind. You don't talk at all. But that's always been the nature of our friendship. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me you prompt me.

Shandin Pete: 54:33

It reminded me of that trip that we took to Indiana. I remember. Remember? god darn. What's his name? Ed? Yeah, Ed. Herman it Herman Yeah. reminds me that trip that that trip we took when we were kind of, we had kind of a little, I don't know, a little method of, of interacting with all these. These these white folks, you know, and it sort of worked. You know why? That's right. Yeah, it's

Aaron Brien: 55:02

that good cop, bad cop, but kind of a similar idea where you were by far a little more diplomatic than I, I am.

Shandin Pete: 55:10

i Well, I wouldn't say that. But I mean, at a different mode of talking to these folks that would sort of cue you off into into something that that was it gave a different perspective on something. You know, I was working from the angle of, you know, what we build in the center, and I want to Yeah, I guess you're right. Diplomatic, you know,

Aaron Brien: 55:31

there was a little more like, chill. Chill. What was I like, didn't tell me. That was 2118. That was

Shandin Pete: 55:42

long time ago. Yeah. Now you just brought brought the real voice into it, you know? Yeah. I was being diplomatic. God dang it. Yeah. So

Aaron Brien: 55:53

we went to Phoenix for that combo. Like, I remember, but going to have an aneurysm. Like,

Shandin Pete: 56:03

yeah, that was problematic.

Aaron Brien: 56:07

So like, there's all cases all kinds of wrong. There

Shandin Pete: 56:09

was there was like multiple red flags. There was a lot of red flags. A lot of Yeah, there was a lot of a lot of performance. Let's just say, that seemed to be a lot of performance. Yep. Anyway, back to this stuff location. Well, I don't I don't want I don't know if we need to talk about it. We can talk about some we just talk about it. We could talk about I just don't know, I don't know about it. I don't do any of these things. I deliberately try not to do any Well, I don't know if you've and I do it deliberately. It's just natural not to. I feel like my position. If I'm being authentic, my idea of where I'm located in the structure of the social stratum, if you will, I think that becomes pretty abundant and clear. In the way that I talk in what I talk about, and how I interact in respond to questions. I take that approach in my lectures, in any panels I'm on in any interviews I have to give. I'll I don't feel like a lengthy introduction is necessary for people to understand those two concepts, the positionality and the self location. That's that's in talking, not in writing. But in talker, yeah.

Aaron Brien: 57:43

Okay. And I mean, I don't really know, I don't really know what it is, because I've become so self aware in almost muscle memory of tokenism and showmanship that like, I don't function that way. Anyway. So yeah, I'm having a hard time. Yeah. Yeah. wrapping my brain around it, because it's not something for one that was introduced to me, or even if it was, I wouldn't have accepted it. So it just wouldn't have been part of my deal. Give me an example. Is there like a published example of something?

Shandin Pete: 58:20

I don't know. I don't know. That there isn't? I mean, if there is I don't know about it. What

Aaron Brien: 58:25

so what was Selena's question based on like, what, what lesson, which was she just asking? Yeah, just

Shandin Pete: 58:31

she's like, wondering, what are your thoughts on the difference between these two things? That was sort of my understanding from the things I've worked, where

Aaron Brien: 58:38

are they, in research? Like, where, where are they? Where are they?

Shandin Pete: 58:43

What's I'm not sure where they are in, in any sort of research methodology? I would say I would, I would guess that, that they probably are probably advocated for in an indigenous methodological approach. I'm sure that's out there somewhere. Whether I think that's right. I don't know. You know, I'm on the fence about it, because I do think it's good in a certain regard. But that's only in sort of the dissemination of things. But I don't know, I don't know of a lot of situations where that the performance of telling somebody who you are and what your privilege is really helps anything. It does, if you put if you're wearing the lab coat. It does if you're wearing the

Aaron Brien: 59:35

is that the same as like rights, like, like, do you?

Shandin Pete: 59:40

Is it like no, I mean, where

Aaron Brien: 59:42

your authority comes from, to talk about something or to sort of something sort of, I mean, because I know there's been cases where that's a thing like, where you would talk where you would have to where you were owning rights to things gives you a third, but I still don't know if people go I have the right unless asked, Where does your right to this come from?

Shandin Pete: 1:00:10

Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, hey, I mean, I don't know if you think I don't know what what you think about this, but you know, some, you hear some native people do that in, in, in certain situations that that are unique to us, you know, I have the right to do this. And I was given this right, and by so and so. And so that's sort of like, self location, maybe? I don't know. I don't know.

Aaron Brien: 1:00:38

Yeah, but I also noticed that only really occurs when that person is outside of their norm. So like, like, announcing here like in crow country, right. That people own the right to announce to address the camp, right. Yeah. I pretty much know. Like, if certain people come up, I question their right. I know, like, oh, yeah, those who know No, right.

Shandin Pete: 1:01:00

Oh, okay. There's, there's particular communities

Aaron Brien: 1:01:04

and ceremonies where there's the announcing, right, that is attached to it. Yeah, but maybe I'm not part of that. So when they come out, and they know, like, oh, normally I'm not in this arena. Oh, so they'll say I own this right. To me by so and so. So typically, I only have seen that where there's an element of unfamiliarity with it.

Shandin Pete: 1:01:28

Yeah, there's sort of more context, or when the person's new to it. Okay, so they sort of have to establish that credibility in a way. And then

Aaron Brien: 1:01:37

people are like, Oh, they're not used to seeing them there yet. So now we know, we know A, B, and C, they own the right, because we've seen them public, there's public, there was witnesses to when the right was given to them, even whether I'm not there or not. It was verified, you know, that was saying authorized crows like to use that word authorized. Just like the Blackfeet. They say transfer, right? Transfer, right. Which is the same idea. Someone Someone had to witness that. And you've always said that I've always liked to bear witness. Someone has to witness what happened. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:02:11

Yeah. Yeah. Same same, but then I get it now. So if it's out of context, perhaps you had to establish that, that credibility in a way? So I don't know. I mean, it but that seems different. In a way, it seems different. It

Aaron Brien: 1:02:29

does. Because the setting is different. Because typically, those rights are in service to somebody else. Yeah. I don't just walk them and say I'm an announcer. I can have the right to speak. Somebody came up to me already. And do you own the right, somebody? Yeah. Yeah. So somebody came up to me and said, Do you own right? Oh, yes. From source. Okay. Can you talk for my family? Oh, okay. So we go out onto the dance floor. And yeah, now it's for them. I mean, me, but somebody would, right. Yeah. And

Shandin Pete: 1:03:03

so what, let me ask you this in that particular situation with the same players? Would that work the same? If somebody was asked to speak for someone at a conference, they sell one, I want you to sort of introduce me at this conference. Can you sort of announce for me these things?

Aaron Brien: 1:03:24

I would say? Yeah, I would say the CRO belief is that those beliefs are everywhere. Yeah. So when I was teaching at USC, Casey, yeah, and then kind of going around lecturing, didn't own the right to speak in public. And in my first year, I went into the Sundance and on, on like, a day, towards the end of it. A guy named Walter rolled out came up to me, who was helping me through the dance. And he said, Do you own the right to speak in public? And I said, No. And he said, you know, what's your job? Yeah, you should follow the rules. And you need, you need to have that right. So I'm going to give that to you. So what he did is he brought me to the front and he announced to the, to the, to the people there to the public and said, I wish he said, I was given the right by so and so Roger stops was given the right by Joe Hill. And by that point, Roger stops was born in 1920. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like it put that that right, the cluster chain of custody. Yeah, the lineage. Yeah. And he said, today, I'm going to give him and he said my name and CRO and he said, he's going to own the right to speak in public. Because of his job. This is what he does. And we want him to follow the rules, you know, that kind of a thing. Yeah, there was other people who own the right, sitting there and they said, All right, that's it happen because they recognize his right therefore, he's sharing that with me, and it was addressed to the public, you know, yeah. So in that setting I wasn't I'm not someone someone's gonna use that. Crow Fair to give away. But he saw that as like you're addressing the public? Yeah. Yeah. Need to own the right to do that. Yeah. And I respect that.

Shandin Pete: 1:05:16

Yeah. And so that that, theoretically can apply under many different situations even out of context, even

Aaron Brien: 1:05:24

out of context. That's, at least that's the way I would see it, you know? Yeah. Well, especially out of context, because you I mean, you even know that no one's if someone comes up to ask you to sing a song from one of the from the medicine dance, you're not going to say, Oh, well, maybe well, but situational, right? You'll say, Yeah, well, it's not the right time. I should probably do it right now. There's a context for it. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:05:51

Yeah. So let me throw a hypothetical out to you. So let's pretend you're at a college basketball game. And all the MCS got sick. And somebody knows that you're a man with the voice that's conducive to speaking on the loudspeaker. They say, Hey, will you speak for us? And announced for this game? Do you state at that game that you have the right to speak in public? In your crow ways? To a largely non native population?

Aaron Brien: 1:06:38

I would Christ I personally would. Okay.

Shandin Pete: 1:06:44

So it matters that those people who have no understanding of the context, it matters that you stated that what

Aaron Brien: 1:06:50

matters, it matters to me matters to you. It to me, it's important, like just when I say like, if I said like, if I didn't own the right to speak, and but because I've said this before, before I had it, I would say, I don't own the right to speak in public. But I was asked to do this. So I'm going to do it. But just so you know, I don't own the right. Like, it's important. Like, that's important for me, you know, does that mean I'm like doing that all the time? Not necessarily. But I think it's almost like situational. Like, now I own the right. And I have for I mean, that was 2017 or whatever, you know. Yeah. Have fun. Yeah. Yeah. The way I the way I think of the way I think of our diplomas, yeah. It's not as like, knowledge. I don't think of him as knowledge, I think as him as the right. Okay. Does that make sense?

Shandin Pete: 1:07:54

In a way, maybe, maybe explain a bit. What you saw as a right to what?

Aaron Brien: 1:07:59

So like, if they said, Aaron, you have your bachelor's degree in anthropology, that doesn't mean I have the knowledge that you're supposed to have a master's degree how I don't know, you know? Yeah, what it means is I have the right to be to be an anthropologist. That's a cult. I see it as Oh, okay. Sure. All right. Yeah. So just because you might have Shawn Dean has the, the rights, all the cultural rights to the war dance. Okay. Let's say that's the thing. Yeah. That doesn't mean you're not you're gonna have the knowledge of it. Okay. Have the right is a function or cultural function.

Shandin Pete: 1:08:41

Right. Yeah. It

Aaron Brien: 1:08:44

doesn't doesn't necessarily mean, you own a knowledge of it. Like you have the knowledge of it. In fact, there's cases where somebody might own the, the right to something the ceremonial right there, the person is supposed to sit there and do this thing. But they don't know. They don't have the knowledge of it. So they're being coached by people who have the knowledge but don't have the right.

Shandin Pete: 1:09:05

Right. Okay. Yeah, I

Aaron Brien: 1:09:06

get it. Yeah. So it's so to me, that's, that's how I see or degrees? I don't see them as knowledge. Yeah, I see them as the right. You own the right. You've earned the right. Yeah, the cultural right test to say that. So

Shandin Pete: 1:09:23

earning a right is not necessarily to say you know everything about it. Yeah, yep. Yeah. That it? Is that fairly common you think?

Aaron Brien: 1:09:37

I think it's getting more and more common. Yeah. That's handle handing off of ceremonial rites.

Shandin Pete: 1:09:45

What do you think people do that is do you think they see a potential and someone to carry it on or they they just feel I think it I

Aaron Brien: 1:09:53

think it's varies from okay. Yeah. I also think that sometimes rights are seen as heirlooms. So Okay, okay. All right. A transfer. Yeah. Yeah. And it's seen as an heirloom. So they want to like, that's passed on. Oh, I'm the whatever. I'm the award. And Chief, that doesn't mean that person owns all the knowledge of it, but it's become an heirloom. It's yeah. It's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't mean it's not important, you know? Yeah. Like, okay, I can say this in the sweat when we the person who's running the sweat. Yeah. They know how to go through the things, motions, everything you're supposed to do. Now, I would say that not everybody knows the meaning of everything. Yeah. Yeah. But their authority is official, they're given that right by this person, this person, we can't question that. It's not up to me to say like, I that person doesn't know, the story of the sweat. So he shouldn't have the right. That's not for me to say, Yeah, I might want to, you know, but my question or right. Someone who legitimately had the right, gave that person, I have to respect that. And I think now, I see this more and more, where we're getting to positions where people want to people who don't hold rights, are questioning people who hold rights. I might not agree with their philosophies. But I in comparison to a crow culture, I don't own a lot of rights. I have some, yeah. But when somebody when somebody goes up to talk about a certain thing, and they own those rights do I gotta shut up?

Shandin Pete: 1:11:45

So then, sort of that idea if it's, if you compare it to that thing, we're just talking about that idea of self location? That's pretty necessary. Pretty necessary.

Aaron Brien: 1:11:58

Ah, in a certain city, yeah. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:12:00

In a certain setting, if acquired under.

Aaron Brien: 1:12:06

But also don't talk about what you don't know. So if that person is going up there, and they're gonna go through all this self locating stuff, and all this, but they don't know what they're talking about. They need to shut up and just say, all I'm here to talk about is physics. That's all I'm gonna talk to you about. Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I, if I'm even talking about the right thing should? I don't know, I

Shandin Pete: 1:12:30

think we are. I don't know. It's an interesting, it's

Aaron Brien: 1:12:34

more rusty. It's, we're

Shandin Pete: 1:12:36

rusty. It's an interesting thing. And if I had the time, no, I'm sure there's some somebody who wrote all about where it come from, and all that business and but I don't know, it feels inauthentic. Even among a group of, of indigenous people or Native people, it feels inauthentic. among a group of non native people, to me, it feels it feels awkward. And but but then again, you know, if it was something that you're talking about, where it's it's sort of a, you know, an expression of something that falls in line with a norm in the community, because it maps back to have a particular purpose, ceremonial purpose, and the authority to do certain things. And that makes sense to me. Makes a lot of sense. So I don't know, I don't know how I'm, I don't know what suggestion we could give for that for the young people who feel like, well, I want to self locate, because I feel like that's something I have to do. What I mean, what is what is the deal? I mean, do you just I mean, you can say I don't have the right for have nothing from my community, I got zero rights. But I have and that

Aaron Brien: 1:14:01

would be cool. wouldn't actually think that would be cool. Somebody would say, I'm here to talk to you about a subject that I don't own rights to. I don't own any rights. But because I'm placed in this institution and asked to talk about something I want to talk about something I'm interested in, something I wanted to learn about. So everything I'm going to talk to you about is newly acquired knowledge.

Shandin Pete: 1:14:23

Yeah. That would be that would be that you know that that actually elevates a person's credibility? I think so. 1000 fold 1000 I'd even say almost 2000 fold.

Aaron Brien: 1:14:40

Like wow, one Brazilian

Shandin Pete: 1:14:46

I'd actually listen, I'd I

Aaron Brien: 1:14:47

would listen, I would never I personally never even thought about it until just now. Yeah, I can see there's times that I should have said that. Yeah. Yeah. Like this was purely a preservation Project. You know, this is purely a, like, this is purely I just wanted to know, I tried to collect as much knowledge as I could. Yeah, I have no intention of using this knowledge for anything outside of learning.

Shandin Pete: 1:15:15

Yeah. Nah, that'd be so calling. If everybody did that, man. That's the thing, then. That's the thing. So I want you to promote that by doing it. I look good. The next time next next time we talk. I want to see if you did,

Aaron Brien: 1:15:33

I was asked to give a shields talk. Yeah. I'm gonna say I'm gonna say it there. Okay, this is purely a preservation project. I don't own the rights to any of these things. Yeah. Yeah. Do it. I'm gonna Oh, well, when

Shandin Pete: 1:15:51

is it? When is it?

Aaron Brien: 1:15:54

This one I'm doing at the Society of American anthem. Oh, you should go. When is it? When is it New Orleans in April? Oh,

Shandin Pete: 1:16:04

what date?

Aaron Brien: 1:16:07

We could probably figure this out without recording.

Shandin Pete: 1:16:11

Okay. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. Okay. Okay. Do that. Report back? On on how it made you feel? I want to know your feelings. Can you keep a journal? A thought journal? And

Aaron Brien: 1:16:26

I already know it's gonna make any. It's gonna make me do it already. I already know it. I already know.

Shandin Pete: 1:16:32

Okay. All right. That's

Aaron Brien: 1:16:35

self what did we call him that self

Shandin Pete: 1:16:37

location?

Aaron Brien: 1:16:39

Is that self location?

Shandin Pete: 1:16:40

I have no idea. I didn't I never looked at the the meaning or the definition. Or I just kind of went off my gut what I thought it was. So we could be way off. But that seems right though. It seems authentic. If there if the idea of of locating yourself, you ought to say what you know, and what you don't know. Right. And sort of your intent, I guess. I think

Aaron Brien: 1:17:02

it's even more important for non Indian people to hear that because there's this token Indian thing that we know everything about our people all the time. So it's like, I was asked to do this. I didn't turn it down. I took the opportunity to learn something I don't know anything about. Yeah. Yeah. I own no rights to these things. Yeah. Therefore you none of you can own any rights to them. Yeah. And we're just here to talk about something fun. And that's all we're gonna do. Man, that would be cool. Like, something like that, you know? Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:17:40

agreement that it feels more authentic.

Aaron Brien: 1:17:44

Feels like I can see I can see myself doing that.

Shandin Pete: 1:17:48

Okay. Do it, man. Do it. We're gonna report back. When this is an April, we'll record before April. So you're

Aaron Brien: 1:17:58

ready. I think we're trying to we're gonna get back on track. We've done this a few times. Yeah, we're gonna get back on track. But people, people need to remember that when you and I agreed to do this podcast after the SK HC days, we had this unspoken agreement that yeah, we're gonna do it when we want to do it. And it's gonna be fun. If we turn it into a chore than it'll be a chore. You're gonna get the cheapest version of the cheapest. And I want to be the best for you this.

Shandin Pete: 1:18:31

I'm doing this for you. Remember? I'm doing this for you. You wanted to do this? This is all you

Aaron Brien: 1:18:43

I learned it from watching you. Do you remember that commercial? And he grabs that box and there's weed in it. And he's like, Where'd you learn this? Where'd you learn this? From watching you

Shandin Pete: 1:19:01

are the one where the kids like helping his dad fix the car and he spills the oil and the oil spills on the dead and goes Darren out from under the guards and yell at his kid. And then I don't know there's some like message and then it shows him reflecting on it. Then he decides to cheat a little bit better. Do you remember that one? Yeah. Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 1:19:23

those are those are like the

Shandin Pete: 1:19:26

Yeah. The more you know, the more you know. Yeah, little star goes flashing, but the more you know, anyways.

Aaron Brien: 1:19:38

Yeah. How long have we recorded

Shandin Pete: 1:19:42

but hour and 15

Aaron Brien: 1:19:44

Oh, we should stop. Yeah, let's

Shandin Pete: 1:19:46

do it. Let's stop. We're stifling. Yeah, we're we're starting to devolve into 80s Commercials 90s commercials. Okay, let's let's do it. Let's wrap it.

Aaron Brien: 1:19:55

Sounds good, man.

Shandin Pete: 1:19:56

Put done, man. I'm sick talking to you. I sick i Don't miss you. I

Aaron Brien: 1:20:02

miss you and I don't want to talk about it.