#51 - Anti-Un-De-Colonial Indigenization Potluck: A cornucopia of gripes and thoughts

Traditions Unveiled: Navigating the True Meaning of Thanksgiving. 0:00
Feast or Fiesta: Exploring Food Choices Beyond Thanksgiving. 6:21
Reclaiming Histories: Indigenous Research Challenges and Opportunities. 12:52
From Podcasts to Papers: Academic Writing Adventures. 20:29
Success, Legitimacy, and Indigenous Research Methodologies. 28:41
Ownership and Equality: Indigenous Knowledge and Research Perspectives. 35:28
Unmasking Misconceptions: Tribal Culture, Animals, and Academia. 43:12
Publishing Pitfalls: Navigating Challenges in Academic Research. 47:41
Indigenous Wisdom Unbound: Manifestos, Anthologies, and Competing Interpretations. 51:03
Land Matters: Indigenous Research and the Power of Language. 1:02:49
Conference Chronicles: Live Recordings, Reviews, and Sponsorship Dilemmas. 1:09:05

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2023, December 19). #51 - Anti-Un-De-Colonial Indigenization Potluck: A cornucopia of gripes and thoughts [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/953152/14171390

How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast].  Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com/

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Transcript

Aaron Brien: 0:00

Like the, like the pilgrims, oh, like, stuff like, you know, they say Well, yeah, yeah, like we tell the real story of things give me I don't tell any story of things

Shandin Pete: 0:15

I haven't been to one Thanksgiving where anybody has told a story about Thanksgiving. Have you know

Aaron Brien: 0:45

that's what I'm, that's what I say when they're like, they're like, We don't celebrate Thanksgiving but in the manner in which they're saying that I don't know anybody that does. I've never met anyone that does be idle families to get together and cook a turkey but they're sitting there going like, you know, the Pilgrims came. What gather?

Shandin Pete: 1:06

Gather on uncle is going to tell us about the story of thanksgiving.

Aaron Brien: 1:11

If anything is just kind of become this. Yeah. Informal family reunion. I like to call Thanksgiving pre Christmas.

Shandin Pete: 1:21

Pre Christmas.

Aaron Brien: 1:23

Yeah, it's pretty Christmas. But no, I mean, I don't. That's it's it's funny in there. Like, we don't want to be called nice Thanksgiving. I'm like, but who's sitting there? Like, am I missing something?

Shandin Pete: 1:37

Yeah, you might be. I don't know. I don't know. But I like it. When when people get uncomfortable who they're not indigenous. They get somewhat uncomfortable around you asking you about about the holiday coming up? What are you gonna do for the holiday? You mean Thanksgiving? Yeah, yeah. skirt around it. They want to say Thanksgiving. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 2:09

What are you gonna do for that? Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 2:11

We celebrate Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. And

Aaron Brien: 2:17

then in any person is, is they don't?

Shandin Pete: 2:21

Yeah, maybe the bar is pretty low to celebrate. Thanksgiving. You don't take much. Okay.

Aaron Brien: 2:30

That's my point. That's my point. Exactly. Which day and it's like, yeah, I don't think people are sitting around going. Gather around kids. Let us talk about the history of Thanksgiving. I think people just kind of like, throw their paper plates on the table. It's more buffet style. I don't. Yeah, I know. There's people sitting at the table and doing like, maybe they voice what they're thankful for at the most like maybe maybe yeah, maybe for the most part they throw on that boring parade or, or then, or then they turn on the lions because the lions are always playing. So I don't know. I mean, yes. It's beautiful. Yeah, same thing with Christmas. I don't know anyone. It's more prevalent, but I know that. Yeah, most people I think celebrate Christmas is just kind of another get together. Yeah, family and friends or whatever. Yeah, but they're not sitting there telling the nativity story. I know I mean, that that's a little different because I do know people do that. You know, but yeah, yeah. Circles are running

Shandin Pete: 3:53

yeah, pretty goofy. Alright, so nobody's nobody's volunteering. What their favorite post Thanksgiving leftover meal is. You've told me yours rice and Turkey. And oh yeah, the ham. Now this is what I like to do with the ham. Okay, and I'm sorry I didn't while but

Aaron Brien: 4:14

I know you're in Canada. So your Thanksgivings in October?

Shandin Pete: 4:18

Well yeah, we yeah, we double not celebrated how Thanksgiving

Aaron Brien: 4:25

you you boycotted two different holidays.

Shandin Pete: 4:29

Well wasn't it wasn't a deliberate it was just more being lazy, I guess. Anyway, so the ham, double Cook, double cook the ham. So it's already cooked, right? Yeah, I like to take that ham. Toss it back in the frying pan. Get it a little black. Yeah, I almost like bacon, you know? Yeah. Almost like bacon. Put that in the in the sandwich. Off you go. Good one well

Aaron Brien: 5:01

bacon now now is referred to as Nikola rain.

Shandin Pete: 5:05

Cool. Nikola rain.

Aaron Brien: 5:08

I saw him today. Oh, you did? Yeah. And billings that that power that. I know. Yeah. Putting it down. Yeah, he was there. I visited Walt. Yeah, it's above. Yes. Former guests. Yeah. I had a fella come up to me and say hey I like your podcast. So that was

Shandin Pete: 5:34

pretty cool. Nice. Some random filler.

Aaron Brien: 5:37

some rando.

Shandin Pete: 5:40

Rando calorie Sian? Yeah

Aaron Brien: 5:45

Dang. Randolph are really Lando. Lando. Lando Carson. Yeah, man.

Shandin Pete: 5:57

That's cool man.

Aaron Brien: 5:59

As well as well on on the Facebook Live.

Shandin Pete: 6:02

No, I'm seeing him. No, we got him wife.

Aaron Brien: 6:06

Yeah, his wife asked a very, very crucial question and I was hoping they'd be on the live so they could just ask it themselves because I don't want to I'll let them ask. Yeah. Yeah. The link was to seven one the cast

Shandin Pete: 6:21

get them on Yeah, well, I don't know what he's doing might be busy. I don't know. I think

Aaron Brien: 6:26

he placed admins fancy because there's just him and his son. Well,

Shandin Pete: 6:30

they're probably out at Golden Corral. They got a Golden Corral and billings still took the fam out the Golden Corral. Got first you know, took

Aaron Brien: 6:40

them took them to a royal fork. The king kings table will

Shandin Pete: 6:46

King say was getting stable? Yeah. Yeah. Kings

Aaron Brien: 6:50

kings table.

Shandin Pete: 6:51

Okay, we got one question here. Oh, yeah. From acorn. He says if you could choose a whole different meal than the traditional turkey stuffing, etc. What would it be? Zanya Thanksgiving lasagna? Why not?

Aaron Brien: 7:09

Yeah, that's what my kids and her mom did. Because they had lasagna.

Shandin Pete: 7:13

I mean, yeah.

Aaron Brien: 7:16

I like lasagna. Lasagna fun.

Shandin Pete: 7:19

This is fun. I've never heard lasagna described as fun. Is it fun to make fun to eat?

Aaron Brien: 7:28

Not funny. It's like, it's like awesome pizza. Oven pizzas. Fun to eat man.

Shandin Pete: 7:37

Grapes. Yeah. Yeah, right. I go. Yeah, yeah, I suppose. Suppose I go with I'd go with tacos instead of Turkey. Go full taco bar, you know,

Aaron Brien: 7:48

dude. Oh, we Okay. All right. We went to a graduation reception. All right. And you know, you know how Indian people it's like the same thing at graduation or receptions. It's like, overcooked steak or whatever. Short ribs, you know, like the sort of Yeah, and but we went to a reception last. Yes. And it was like, there was a taco

Shandin Pete: 8:17

bar. Oh, oh. It

Aaron Brien: 8:19

made me so happy. Like, because I was like, I'm hitting the taco bar. Okay. I mess around with fry bread. No,

Shandin Pete: 8:29

no, no. What is it called? Oppression food. No. No only oppression on

Aaron Brien: 8:42

frybread guy man.

Shandin Pete: 8:43

No, every now and then. I've said that before. Yeah, you did pretty good. Yeah, cuz what the taco bar you can go. I mean, you don't get there's no limit. You know? You can pile on all the meat you want. You can. All the veggies you want. Yeah, just go crazy on it. I love tacos.

Aaron Brien: 9:03

I like the taco bar. I you know. I go to taco bar. I think I'd go taco bar but let's match on Sonya. So good.

Shandin Pete: 9:14

Well, lasagna is certainly easy to do, right? Yeah. What do you put do you make lasagna or did this go by?

Aaron Brien: 9:26

Okay, yeah. My live by myself. There's

Shandin Pete: 9:29

no it's real easy to make them. Yeah, yeah. Amber says what about a chocolate fountain? Yeah. Get out your old fondue set. Remember the fondue?

Aaron Brien: 9:45

flatheads No, no,

Shandin Pete: 9:47

I think it's a Swedish thing.

Aaron Brien: 9:52

Fondue man,

Shandin Pete: 9:56

I still don't know whatever it is. But yeah,

Aaron Brien: 9:58

I don't really know what it is. Okay, the other thing is quiche de what's is he's just like scrambled eggs. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 10:05

just scrambled eggs. Yeah. I mean, as far as I know. It's like an omelet in a carton. I mean, that's you can get it in the carton, I guess. Quiche in a carton? Yeah, it's it's an omelet, thick omelet, I suppose. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 10:24

And

Shandin Pete: 10:25

anyway, let's give a little preview about what we're going to talk about. And then let's get to it, man.

Aaron Brien: 10:33

Okay, so what are we going to talk about?

Shandin Pete: 10:35

I don't know. I was hoping you had some.

Aaron Brien: 10:39

Well, I was saying that we should talk about that. Potential public publishing thing. We should put some pressure on that. But you don't actually want to talk about research? I don't. Yeah, that's what Cassie said, well, Walt's Yeah. wife runs above. Yeah. She said. She said, You know, you guys talk about research and stuff. And then I said, sometimes, I mean, she's like, Yeah, I mean, not really, like, we kind of had this weird more like, Yeah, we don't really think about research all that much. I'm proposing. Let me let me read it. Let me read it.

Shandin Pete: 11:19

Okay. Well, we I mean, we do but we talk about it in a different way. Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Aaron Brien: 11:25

There was a call for papers for indigenous archaeology. Okay. The theme is reclaiming, reviving, and rewriting Indigenous histories.

Shandin Pete: 11:34

This thing was ours in it. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 11:39

And it's abstracts are due by January 30. decision will be announced by April. final submission in July. If anyone knows anything about this publishing world, it takes a long time. Like it's it's not quick. It's Yeah, it's me personally, it's not the the best way to get your content out there for like what we do. I actually think our podcast probably does more. Yeah, than most journal articles. But we propose a lot of ideas. We've yet to put together right outside of the outside of that my little part net grant or the grant submission and stuff we've read. We've yet to like put some down as as what we are as as, as tribal research specialist. We, yeah, we've individually both have published, but I think it'd just be fun. It'd be fun. Because personally, doing reclaiming, reviving and rewriting Indigenous histories. Yeah, we, that's, that's

Shandin Pete: 12:52

sort of what we're trying to do

Aaron Brien: 12:53

for cakewalk for us. Yeah, we talk we talk a lot of smack about research. We talked a lot of smack while I do. Academics, and we talk. We, we've mentioned pitfalls, and shortcomings.

Shandin Pete: 13:12

We bashed on getting Yeah, we bashed some things strategically, though, strategically, but yeah, it's just like the episode but the count of the conference, you know, we built up all these ideas that we might want to do. And then in the end of the episode, we said, what kind of sounds like a lot of work?

Aaron Brien: 13:29

Yeah. I prefer to just sit around and talk shit, you know,

Shandin Pete: 13:37

standard conference, and witness all this over and over again. Yeah, no, but you're right. We are we are. If I was sitting back and listening. And I was on the end of it. I don't know. Like, if I was the one doing the things that were sort of clowning on, I would put a challenge out there and say, well, let's see what you got then. Because we're writing these papers. best we can. And then we got these two clowns. And whoever they guessed, you know, knocking on what we're doing, will show us what you got, then. What I think this is this podcast is sort of a it feels like an authentic way to disseminate our thoughts. It's not in writing and it's not in

Aaron Brien: 14:31

German journal article site. People could cite the podcast, they can enter is theirs, which I think

Shandin Pete: 14:37

that's been done. We've Yeah, we've been cited in two papers. Not officially cited, but we've been mentioned in a dissertation in a journal article. Yeah. But not officially cited. Because just Yeah, cuz I don't think people know how to cite podcasts. appropriately.

Aaron Brien: 14:57

They're just they're just not creative. You know? Well,

Shandin Pete: 15:00

I mean, you can look it up. There's there's a, an approved method to citing podcast.

Aaron Brien: 15:07

Yeah, that's dumb. Well, I mean, it's. Yeah, yeah. So here's another thing that I've said for a long time. And yeah, I think we've talked about this style guy. Yeah. So like, you look at the way you you do your work, whether it's an MLA or Chicago or whatever, right? Yeah, we don't we've never developed a Style Guide for Tribal researchers. But see, this is my issue with it with indigenous research method. This is like our legitimate methodology. You mean, methodology? Yep. Okay. It hasn't produced anything?

Shandin Pete: 15:54

Well, I mean, some people would argue that No, you're wrong. And I

Aaron Brien: 15:57

want him to come on the show. Because, yeah, I haven't produced anything more than just the acknowledgement that indigenous research method is different methodologies is different. But yet, like hard, like, yeah, product. What's the product? Where's the format? style? Where's the style guide? Where's the? Where's like? Where's where's a tested way of using this research method? Yeah, like, where's this tested? Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 16:25

it feels authentic.

Aaron Brien: 16:27

That feels authentic. That's not like dream catchers. Nothing against dream catchers. That's not this kind of hokey, romanticized version of us. Yeah, not this like. What did you say to me earlier? I won't say where you got this from. But

Shandin Pete: 16:46

what did I say? In

Aaron Brien: 16:48

some native languages? The term for plants translates to those who take care of us.

Shandin Pete: 16:58

Which one? Which language? Because if it doesn't really that I want to know, that'd be cool to know.

Aaron Brien: 17:04

That'd be cool to know. And then, yeah, that's just just pretty much. Yeah, I could say that. I could say that. It's like, maybe the nuanced of saying, show me those five languages and show me those 20 languages. Let's break down the words. Yeah, let's say what do they mean? What does that that's cool to read.

Shandin Pete: 17:25

That's interesting. I

Aaron Brien: 17:26

just can't I just can't do well like this. I should we should write a paper called offered tobacco. Because everyone thinks that's what you do. Every for everything. Awesome. Tobacco off. Yeah, now it's Indian. Now it's Indian. I'm gonna write a research paper. Before I do that. I'm going to offer tobacco and

Shandin Pete: 17:44

send it oh, he made the made the native category by offering tobacco Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 17:49

offering tobacco and it's like, do you even know what that is? Not everyone does it? It's it's not a necessity. You can do a lot of things. Yeah. It's like, but then why are you doing it? What's the question? You're asking? What's the thing? Yeah, like I don't I don't know.

Shandin Pete: 18:07

How does that map back to the question? Yeah, I'm

Aaron Brien: 18:10

on a modern one man. Don Juan one

Shandin Pete: 18:20

all right. This is it I want you to listen to the song here. I just grabbed some random random one here. All right, here comes coming at you. Ah, crepes I close it down. What a dummy Oh, isn't making me mad has shoveling with this stability gonna get mad? It's making me mad. Get mad. I was so mad. Where to go now. Here comes okay. Get it on the high fidelity. Boom, here comes Yeah, yeah, that's um, some power I guess in Chicago. House is a Chicago power. So I looked this up a little bit. Oh, wait. Standard song. It sounds familiar. Sounds familiar. Chicago Paulo 1987. It kind of the 87 sound you know, it is sound. But I guess there's a native organization in Chicago urban organization puts on Powell are used to I don't know if they still do. I'd be curious if they still do.

Aaron Brien: 20:46

Interesting. This is. Was this one of your dad's tapes?

Shandin Pete: 20:50

Yeah. Yeah, no, no, I don't think I don't think he went there. Or I could be wrong. Maybe he did. I don't know. But 87

Aaron Brien: 20:58

I'm not sure. 19 187 99

Shandin Pete: 21:02

the year 19 187.

Aaron Brien: 21:04

Yes. There's a cool tune. Like you say it's pretty standard. But like, I liked them songs that are like that. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 21:11

Yeah. Easy to sing. In a singular care. Yeah, sound nice. You can kind of play around with them with the beat and the speed. You can make them do many number of things. That's what I like about simple songs. Some are some are cans. Oh,

Aaron Brien: 21:30

yeah. Many number of stuffs.

Shandin Pete: 21:34

Many lots of stuff. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 21:36

Many, many. Lots of stuffs. stems, those songs are always almost good sometimes.

Shandin Pete: 21:50

Almost didn't know it.

Aaron Brien: 21:55

Was the note but then I remembered

Shandin Pete: 22:04

Yeah. Okay. So here's the deal. Yeah, we've been, we've been ranting and raving for 50 episodes, but a lot of things. And we haven't really produced a whole lot besides some ideas. So far water, some criticism? Yeah, fodder.

Aaron Brien: 22:29

But, um,

Shandin Pete: 22:31

I don't know, you think it's it's do you think it's worth putting anything that we say? And our thoughts into writing? Because I've tried this before? I tried this before, but I don't know what your thoughts are. put these things into writing, commit them to something that we can cast out into the world on top of our broadcasting of this podcast?

Aaron Brien: 22:56

Yeah, I mean, so I think it's worth it. But I would say this, and I would caution us against this, to get to assume that we can produce an academic paper in the same manner in which we're talking right now. Would be tough. But I think we can get close to it. And I think that's the point we're trying to make, like we can be academic. Sure. Sure.

Shandin Pete: 23:21

Sure. Just Just thought to sort of some words and synonyms, and

Aaron Brien: 23:27

then we'll just, we'll just put it up. But I think I'm the paper. If we were to produce a paper together, I actually think the paper would in a weird way would be kind of like, our our mission. That's all it is. Yeah, this is what we're striving to do. Here's our examples of how we're doing it. Yeah, and the results it's yielding. I don't think we need to get excited and be like, let's try to like outsides these guys.

Shandin Pete: 23:56

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't wanna do that. Oh, no, maybe

Aaron Brien: 24:00

we do. You can you're pretty good. You're pretty nice.

Shandin Pete: 24:04

I mean, I'm not I'm not into that either. But so this this was my experience

Aaron Brien: 24:08

pissed homology

Shandin Pete: 24:11

epistemology them off. I said it I said, Okay. No, I've saw this is my hang up though, when it comes to some of these things is number one, I find out how difficult it is to compress thoughts into a into a certain word count, which is the nature of these type of articles. So the next the next medium would be then well, you just kind of got to read a book, or you got to volunteer to read a chapter about a whole number of things as difficult as difficult to number two, yeah, I find myself not being able to quite capture the flow of thought Is that we have verbally into written form, something gets lost there. And I've read a lot of things where I can seem like I can detect that like somebody's really onto something, you know, they're really writing about something that feels deep. And then it gets lost. It gets lost somewhere, and then it becomes sort of a function like a functional piece rather than this kind of piece. That's, someone's really trying hard to build this logical thought. And it becomes lost. And I don't know why that happens. But it's just writing doesn't follow the medium of talking. No,

Aaron Brien: 25:37

no matter what I do. Yeah. And I think there's probably some people that might argue with us on this saying that what you can but yeah,

Shandin Pete: 25:45

for sure. And they should argue, yeah.

Aaron Brien: 25:48

And I don't think it's, like I said, I don't think we can't, it's just it's not going to be the same. Yeah. And you're right. I've read papers where I'm like, all this is cooled or under submitted, and it's like a cat. Like, it's almost like the paper. can't sustain it. Like, just the nature of the way writing things down. Yeah. Yeah. It can't sustain that it's hard to, it's hard to I've seen people get really close. And I'm not saying I've ever achieved it. Right. I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to just know that. Like, that's the same as it's always been, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete: 26:30

That'd be boring. Well, so this, this is some of the speed bumps I run into and tell me if this you have the same experience. So I'm reading. I'm reading some indigenous scholarship. And you're gonna get thrown at you many different number of terminologies. And some of these terminologies feel unresolved. To me, this is where I'm visiting my speedbumps ran into so when I when I read the word anything about when somebody mentioned agency, I pause, I think Well, wait a minute, what does that what do they mean by agency? Especially? We've talked about this, like, personhood for non human things, like the land has agency? I think, Wow, no, I mean, yeah, but not in the same way we think of agency. I don't think and I don't even know, you know, I get hung up there. And I think, well, this needs definition, does this needs more definition. And the scholarship out there that's available to define that better? Is, is pretty surface. It's just surface level. Like there's no there's no evidence in indigenous, like, in an indigenous way that says that, okay, I get what agency is because here's some very concrete examples. It's all very surface stuff. And so you probably can imagine some other words that come up, that also cause these road bumps those roadblocks, right. Which one, like, tell me, I'll say I got a list right here. I'm gonna see if you get them. No, no, do I want to see if you know him? I want to see I'm gonna see if you're thinking of

Aaron Brien: 28:08

the same ones. The roadblocks for agency?

Shandin Pete: 28:11

No, no, any, like any terminology that feels an unresolved or undefined from an indigenous viewpoint in scholarship today.

Aaron Brien: 28:21

Agencies one of them. Agency sacred.

Shandin Pete: 28:25

Sacred what does that mean? Yeah, there you go. When I read that, I stop and pause. I wasn't on my list. But yeah, sacred. What else do you call on the call? Oh, my God. Yeah. The call? colonize. Yeah. What is it? What is the click? Yes, zillions. Yep. That's one on the list. I just generated. Listen, man. wealth. Wealth is one that always hangs me up. Yeah. Well,

Aaron Brien: 28:54

just just to just

Shandin Pete: 28:58

like, success is another one. As you're thinking, yeah, success. It's another one. Yuck. Because these terms get thrown around very loosely, right. In order for indigenous people to achieve success, this, this and this, and I'm saying, Well, wait a minute. Indigenous people are, that's a lot of that's a huge group. Even if you're talking about Native Americans, success, there's a huge group, man. And those No, yeah, go ahead. Sorry, no, I'm just gonna say and then those groups, you can divide those groups of groups up into smaller units. And even in those smaller units, you're gonna have some stratification in there where this term might mean different things. Okay, go Yeah, one

Aaron Brien: 29:49

of the things too, like that's a good example of like how we measure success. Yeah. Um, it's hard for for native researchers to admit that the way We view, success, wealth, any of these things that we talk about in research? Yeah, it's hard for us to admit that our viewpoint is

Shandin Pete: 30:10

very Christian. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 30:13

And so there's concepts that we bring up. That are, that scares us in a way, there's an apprehension, to say, the crown or so like, a good example, today, when I was visiting with Cassie was we were talking about how the idea of elders the idea of, of another one, like, so we view elders as kind of being the pinnacle of knowledge. Yeah, but really, we, we view, like if I, as a Crow Indian person want to bring somebody in to pray for my children, or to ask for good things for my children. The first thing on my list is not elders. Hmm. Yeah. You know, it's it's varies, right. So like, like, my son's going to wrestle this year, right? They started practicing. I would go to somebody that had found success in that thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I would go to that person I would offer I would offer him a meal. I would give them some gifts. I would ask them to make wishes for my son. And I'd be specific saying we're asking you because of this. You found success in the same thing that he's Yeah. He's trying to achieve. Yeah. So that also means that it's not an age thing. That could even be somebody one year older than him. Sure. Yeah. You know, it could be somebody who's 80 years older than him. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not just simply like, go to the elders that concept of going to the elders. Yeah. Native belief is go to the successful. Yeah. And really the way we view that is the testing of luck. So that also means what do you possess? And that's where that that's the clash, right? People say, it shouldn't be about possession that shouldn't. Yeah, but it is a little bit. Yeah. If we're staying true to the native belief. Yeah. How we view successful people is the things they own the rights they possess. Yeah, and the position and status they hold and communities. That's, that's, that's definitely thing, man. That's where it gets sketchy, right? So when I read these papers that are talking about whether it's academic success, research, success, even just gauging things like that knowledge, wealth, all this, it's all predicated on academics, it's not on us belief. It's in it really in lines with the Christian point of view of success, which is blessing our blessed it is the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Right. Right. Like he gives like, it's like, you got to be poor and suffering, which that's countered to even beliefs of tribal people in our in our region, which is war D. How even how your children are dressed? Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 33:14

Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 33:14

your children look good. You like your dad. So your kids dance and your wife dances and I noticed that Alicia ages some of her success as a as a wife, and as a mother, and based on the appearance of her children, right? Look, when they go out and dance, they look good. And and she's got that typical native, traditional viewpoint, which is, let's fix your hair. We can't have you looking shaky, because you're gonna say, Look, your mom doesn't take care of you. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, they gauge success on that. So yeah, parents, parents position, right. Yeah, these are all part of being successful. And that's hard for people to accept. And I know that's not totally what the academic view of success is, and, and and how it's used in research, but it's just an example of like, how we're tied to these to these norms that aren't always academic, but they're like Christian culture. Yeah. Yeah. If we can't, if we can't pull ourselves away from defining one simple thing. Like that. Yeah. It's hard to do it. It's hard to do it with agency. It's hard to do it with resilience. It's hard to do it. Yeah. And methodology. And, and another thing is, we're impatient. Native researchers, in my opinion, are impatient. Oh, yeah. So they don't let things pan out. Like they don't say let's try. Let's try it. Let's try and fail. There's there's this in it. And granted, it's not always from a good place, right? Yeah. There's this need to justify our own existence within Academic so when we do work, there's this anxiety that comes with it that I got to do it. I gotta be good right away. Yeah. Yeah. And We don't allow ourselves to fail. So like, when I look at Te K, our indigenous research methodology we, we like came out of the gate saying this is what it is, instead of coming out of the gate saying this is what we propose, I want people to try it, give us feedback and say, This doesn't work. This doesn't come from that we build on. Yeah. But instead we come out and we're kind of like, I don't know, it's got to be right. Right now. That also got

Shandin Pete: 35:28

to have the answers. Yeah, that's

Aaron Brien: 35:32

also means those terms, those terms, we don't challenge them. Yeah, we're afraid to challenge?

Shandin Pete: 36:56

Agreed, agreed and, and even even when you're talking, even that idea of what what it is to mean, the idea of owning something. When we talk about that, even that one's a bit loose, because, I mean, we can talk about owning of material things. But when we, when we say, you know, success is about the things that you own. That could that could be taken in, in the wrong direction. But it also means sort of the things that you own, like your traits, those kinds of things. So it's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, those those, yeah, those little inflection points. And in these writings, it's throws me way off, because it's, it's undefined. And to define these things, it seems like it like you said, it takes time. Like somebody needs to just write a whole paper on this, this whole mess we put ourselves in with thinking that elders are the top of the pyramid, that they hold all the knowledge they hold, they hold all the ability to transmit knowledge. Yeah, that's that's kind of a crazy thought. And, and it's not isolated to just indigenous communities. It happens in other communities as well. Other cultural groups where this is there's this transference of responsibility to old people that they ought to know all these things. I don't know what that phenomenon is why? Why these become icons in a community for some reason, I don't know why and where that comes from. You mentioned at one time in a previous podcast, like it's there's a religious foundation to that. But um, yeah, I don't know. So yeah, so that's the deal. I think that's the deal. And this is where I get hung up. When I start writing anything. I find myself spending far too much time trying to lay a foundation for what I mean. And yeah, then I say word count. And, and I didn't get to the point, I never get to the point because I'm just trying to describe, like, in this latest piece I'm trying to write I'm trying to I'm trying to define and trying to dispel this myth that there's this equality among all things like this, like we live, we live in equality with the landscape. And I don't necessarily think that's true. Because in all of humanity, there's certain things that we need and use more than other things. And we're not going to really remark on these other things in the landscape as we do some other things. There's a preference Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 39:32

man water is more important than prickly pear. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 39:35

yeah. Yeah, and maybe it's semantics with with with how you state things. But to think that we walk around treating everything equally. Seems misguided. So that's just one example. One example of Well,

Aaron Brien: 39:55

well, it's also the The fact we gotta go with fact. Yeah. So here's here's another one of my issues with native research. Yeah. Is we don't we talk about things, even though we don't use romantic terminology sometimes. Yeah, we, we, it's a it's an idealistic view of our own beliefs, right. And then we also don't look at fact, right now. So for example, you said, there's this idea of equality in theory with with Native people, especially when it comes to academic research, right? Yeah. Yeah. But the fact is, we don't live that way. No.

Shandin Pete: 40:48

We don't know. And,

Aaron Brien: 40:50

and in, does that make us less Indian, more Indian? Whatever. That's not even the argument that it's like stayin within the facts of things. Yeah. Right. We have to be factual we have on how we do our research. Now. We can talk about like something 300 years ago and say, but even then, no, that's not the way we function. Otherwise sacred site wouldn't exist. Otherwise, that hierarchy wouldn't exist. Otherwise, we understand that things are gauged differently. Yeah. We know that things are more powerful. So even if we look at from a religious religion point of view, like from the crows, yeah. An otter, right. Get an otter. Okay. It can live on land. And in water. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 41:42

Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 41:42

It's not the same as us.

Shandin Pete: 41:44

It's not, it's not.

Aaron Brien: 41:47

Yeah. So I'm not looking at all the Otters my brother, I'm Nova. This

Shandin Pete: 41:53

you gotta tell are for are live in the water?

Aaron Brien: 41:57

I can. I can live in the water, man. But that's also what makes it special to me. That's why it's revered in a different sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. You and me, we can't live in the sky and live on the ground. No, not an eagle Kim. A hawk. Can Yeah, Magpie can? Yeah, we don't have that ability. Yeah. A turtle for as slow as it is, can live both in the water and on land. Yeah, we cannot do that no matter how hard we try. So even within our own beliefs, yeah. If we're, if we're, if we're looking at it, we know that there's a hierarchy. There's yeah, there's things that are different held in different ways. Yet, as soon as it comes to research or talking to non tribal audiences, we

Shandin Pete: 42:45

do Yeah. We

Aaron Brien: 42:47

everything is sacred. God, why we do that? Because we know damn well, within our own beliefs. It's not that way. Yeah, it's not that way at all. Yeah. You look at 200 years ago, a man that doesn't own any horses is not looked at as a man that has 100 horses. That's

Shandin Pete: 43:07

perfect. That's a fact. Yeah, God, darn it. So this is this is another one. Along those same lines, is, you know, the one you said about animals are our brothers and those kind of things. And this is the one you hear a lot, too is we watched, we watch and we learned from the animals, you know, there are teachers. And I'm thinking, Well, you know, a black bear will go find the den of a grizzly. And eat its baby and go rip its babies down and eat the baby. And animals steal from each other all the time. You know, that's their surviving man. So I don't know, maybe maybe I'm thinking of teaching in the wrong way, teaching us what not to do, but then also teaching us what to do. I don't know. But what I mean,

Aaron Brien: 44:00

I think it's situational. Yeah, it gets like this across the board thing where we say, we say oh, we learn from that animals. Yes, sometimes. Sometimes we mess up with animals though. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 44:15

Yeah. So this

Aaron Brien: 44:17

horse, the horse? Yes. Look at the horse. Okay. The horse is a relatively new addition to tribal people. Yeah, man. I've heard people argue that I've heard people say, No, there was restore course there's Okay, that's fine. But the fact that we've started writing them is fairly recent. And it's actually the argument should be flipped. We should say that shows how badass we are. We are we were able to take a foreign idea. Yeah. And and implemented into an already existing culture. Yeah. And make make it the thing we're known as. Yeah, who does that? Yeah, show me you know, show me and so then. Prior to that, though, we shot we killed horses. There's exact are stories of trying to eat horses and eating horses? Sure. Now if you were to say like, they eat a horse, they're like not dude. Come on. People are opportunistic, man, we're creatures of convenience. You mean to tell me that the first time they saw a horse that they're like we're gonna ride that thing? And why didn't they do it with our

Shandin Pete: 45:23

pull some else pull some elf and write a moose.

Aaron Brien: 45:28

It's too much for me sometimes. So like when I go to these, these get togethers with other academics or even like people that work in the Tribal Relations world? Yeah. The whole bridging the divide thing. Yeah, I I see them perpetuating so much of this misunderstanding. misnomers of who we are. In fact, I would, I would say they're overcomplicating it. We're a lot more simple than that. Oh, yeah. We've somehow these whole bridging the divide people diversity trainings. Yeah. Tribal Relations trainees. I feel like they cause more of a divide. I actually do unify people.

Shandin Pete: 46:07

I agree. I agree. I agree. Don't Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 46:10

don't look at Shawn Dean in the eyes don't know.

Shandin Pete: 46:15

When you go into this room, these Indians won't look you in the eye. It's a sign of respect.

Aaron Brien: 46:22

Meanwhile, every one of them stare and the person talking to him.

Shandin Pete: 46:29

Man, yeah, no. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a problem. And that's what happens in literature. And in. I think some of its probably maybe unintended, because of the constraints of writing. So when I when I think of someone saying, well, the animals are our teachers, I can sort of, you know, accept that in a certain way. But when it's cast as this, this ultra positive thing, like the teeth, these animals are teaching us these qualities, good qualities that we need to have, then I think, no, no, does that don't add up at all? And then the other thing, you know, the plants are caretakers, or we're the caretakers of the plants. And then Oh, my God, it gets it gets. It gets somewhat, somewhat labor is to try to resolve. Who's taking care of who, who's worse. We're stewards

Aaron Brien: 47:26

of the land. Yeah. It you know, and if that's the case, we've failed.

Shandin Pete: 47:37

We have failed. Yeah, we're failing today. Right now.

Aaron Brien: 47:41

And that's, that's the thing. That's the thing is, so if someone listens to us and says, like, and these guys are, like, kind of downers, it's not it's not that we're downers, it's that I think we can actually fix some of these problems if we have to acknowledge them first. And we have a hard time that, yeah, we do that. That's not just a tribal thing. Of course, we know that's everywhere. But I also know, that's an academic thing. In academics, there's this, especially in the social sciences and non hard science. So like in chemistry, like, you know, when you do something wrong, right. Yeah, yeah. So there's, there's a, there's a reaction, literally quantitative reaction that says, The Oh, you're messed up wrong. There's a physical reactions, though. So yeah, it's hard to do that in qualitative sciences. Right? Yeah. So that means that we can kind of work within that field to the point where it can be manipulated. Right? Relatively easy, right? And I know cuz I've done it. I've done it on purpose. Yeah, just mess it around. People will say, Oh, this this submission, but well, because of this reason, they're like, oh my god, I'm like, Dude, how do you know I just made it up. Like how do you I mean

Shandin Pete: 49:05

that's the Yeah, that's the uncited source sort of thing you know, or the the vaguely cited source you know, an elder once told me then he could fill in the blank with any sort of anything that you're I was on your mind that you wanted to

Aaron Brien: 49:23

do because of because of woke culture. There's so they're afraid to say like, for real like you know

Shandin Pete: 49:36

it's all this when means the the earth is dying. How does that work?

Aaron Brien: 49:41

And that's another thing. There's not dying. Oh, it'll get rid of us.

Shandin Pete: 49:51

We're dying.

Aaron Brien: 49:53

We assume we assume because it's changing that it's dying. Now, dude. It's get its word couldn t get rid of us. The earth is gonna be just fine. So there's

Shandin Pete: 50:03

not crying. Because we're doing all this damage, no cry no tears, my

Aaron Brien: 50:08

mother's. In fact, the Earth is just gonna say Alright, it's time to get rid of these guys.

Shandin Pete: 50:16

Where's the meteor when we need one?

Aaron Brien: 50:20

I started watching that movie don't look up. Oh

Shandin Pete: 50:23

yeah, yeah,

Aaron Brien: 50:25

that's a good one.

Shandin Pete: 50:26

That is good one.

Aaron Brien: 50:27

Yeah. And there's a part in there where are the whole movies is really based around this premise of, of an asteroid but nobody's listening to them, you know? Yeah. They're more worried about like this political stuff. It's Yeah, there's definitely a message in there that Oh, you're trying to get across but it's funny. It's a funny movie. Yeah, I watched it. But anyway, so no, so Okay, so here's the thing. Here's my question, based on everything we just said, Should you should we, let's not even publish with them? Let's just do an independent publish. Publication. What do you think? Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 51:03

I mean, let's do some

Aaron Brien: 51:04

grassroots manifesto stuff, man. Like, just come up with some what? We'll come up with our own format, and we'll put it out now. We'll just like, make the PDF put it on, on on our on our Facebook on our website. Okay. We'll say just take it, use

Shandin Pete: 51:21

it, read it. Use it criticize.

Aaron Brien: 51:25

Who's our peers? Who's our peer review?

Shandin Pete: 51:29

Yeah, that will that ought to be our respective communities from whatever sort of stance exactly that ought to be. Yeah, how to be good could be our listeners it could and you know what? It ought to be criticized, not to be nitpicked and criticized and that's the only only

Aaron Brien: 51:47

way to beat up beat. And it's gonna happen until we put something out. That's the thing though. Yes. Like we've we haven't put nothing out. We keep saying this stuff. But let's put some out. Let somebody beat it up, man. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 52:01

I'm down. Let's do it. What are we going What are we gonna do?

Aaron Brien: 52:09

We're all related. Let's write let's call it. backhoe down. Knowledge up.

Shandin Pete: 52:22

Are you serious?

Aaron Brien: 52:26

Let's call it No, let's call it tobacco. Let's call it yeah, let's let's call it the mountains have spoke to me. And this is what it said. What would you call it? What would you what would you call it?

Shandin Pete: 52:43

I call it an elder once told me in phonology.

Aaron Brien: 52:51

Call it I'd call it I'd call it My mama said.

Shandin Pete: 53:02

Whatever we call it? Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 53:04

Well, it anthology of indigenous thought provoked by indigenous knowledge through indigenous lifeways

Shandin Pete: 53:13

at all, or Yeah, or the title has to be all start with Rs. Series of Rs.

Aaron Brien: 53:21

Oh, yeah.

Shandin Pete: 53:23

Okay. Okay.

Aaron Brien: 53:23

Let's hear it. Let's hear. Okay. Let's

Shandin Pete: 53:26

see resiliency. radicalism,

Aaron Brien: 53:33

rapscallion raft scantling ism,

Shandin Pete: 53:38

ruggedness and realism, an anthology of thoughts by tribal research specialist

Aaron Brien: 53:53

How about we just call it tribal research specialist, the paper

Shandin Pete: 54:02

Yeah, that sounds awesome. I don't know, man. But this, this is what I think the direction would have to go. We'd have to start with one of these topics and then sort of flesh it out. Or one of these constructs that often gets Why don't even know if we can start there because that's, that's huge, because folks always talk about indigenous knowledge indigenous knowledge systems. But with under that umbrella of things is vast amount of ideas. So even just dividing up what knowledge is and what knowledge isn't, that's a huge philosophical task. Because first of all, you want to know well, what's so so Okay, let's let's pretend somebody wrote this piece. said, you know, this is, you know, we're calling for indigenous knowledge in soil conservation. Okay, so what type of knowledge are you talking about? I don't know. I don't know. And then from what era? Are you planning on drawing this knowledge form? Is this past knowledge is this current knowledge? Which one I didn't know. Because I didn't know I have I question whether we're even producing new Indigenous knowledge that seems like the knowledge that we pretend or romanticize to have today. And I don't know if we're doing that. Certainly, there's a lot of indigenous people don't call it what, what?

Aaron Brien: 55:44

We're just the hipsters of academics like art. We're just, we're just, we're just bringing up concepts that have already existed. There there. In fact, they they never really went away. It's just the odd, the certain audience ignored them. Yeah. That's it. Okay. Here's another thing. We're starting to sound real arrogant. We are. Starting to here's the thing we're not and here's the thing. busters are more whiny. So we're not talking about anything that people have not talked about. A lot of. There have been a lot of researchers and, and even just now with content producers, social media, if they've posed all these questions, we're not saying anything, cuz Trust Me, I'm not that smart.

Shandin Pete: 56:50

All right. And so

Aaron Brien: 56:52

it I'm not, these ideas didn't fall from the sky and hit me in the head like this. I've heard them. I've seen them. Yeah, yeah, they're out there. Yeah. It was just for some reason academics has drifted so far. And land management. Professionals have been good so far. It seems as if it seems Wow. Yeah. I'm okay. Yeah. Be fair. But but at the same time, there's people doing good work out. Yeah. Yeah. People do great work out there is not all of them are Native people. Right. Yeah. Let's go back to when you and I both worked at USC. Casey, there's the program I taught in Tribal Historic Preservation. Right. Although it needs a lot of its it needs. Work just says any program does. Right. It was born out of the idea of a of a non Indian guy. Yeah. From the East Coast. And

Shandin Pete: 57:49

yeah, gotta go on. He gotta

Aaron Brien: 57:51

go and based off of thoughts he had, and ideas and experiences he put together, and he built a pretty amazing program. Like any academic program, it's in its infancy. So it takes it's gonna take years for it to really be what it is so, so the like, I can't work in Tribal Historic Preservation at FKC. And then act like I'm the first one to come up with all these concepts. Like, dude, I'm in the program. I'm in a program came up with you know?

Shandin Pete: 58:25

Man, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're,

Aaron Brien: 58:29

we got to be careful. We're getting out of hand here. I

Shandin Pete: 58:32

know. I just Yeah. Getting way out. And yeah, so this Yeah. So this is what I would hate to do is to repeat sort of explanations of failures. I'd hate to repeat explanations of how we're not doing something, right. But I'd rather be a process to where we're helping to reconfigure or redefine or highlight highlighting where things are working.

Aaron Brien: 59:06

I don't even think Yeah, but in a weird way, I don't think we even make it that heart. No,

Shandin Pete: 59:13

I don't think we just need to do

Aaron Brien: 59:15

do it. We just need to show one example. Document. Yeah. Our method of doing things. Yeah. It's interpretation and show the data. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. We don't need to do this criticism of what's exist. And I'll say, No, we don't because

Shandin Pete: 59:36

that's what we've been doing for the last hour.

Aaron Brien: 59:39

Well, that's what we've been doing for 50 episodes. What I'm talking about for the paper for Okay, all right. All right, read the paper. We don't need to get caught up in this idea of proving anyone wrong. You just have to do our work and then put it side by side and say you guys pick up the one you want to do. Yeah, if you want to you Who's our stuff? Cool. You're welcome to it. Yeah. Don't don't complain to me when your stuff sucks.

Shandin Pete: 1:00:13

Yeah, that's the work that's been done. It seems like it's always trying to prove itself against something that it don't need to prove itself against. And that's probably that's why it's seems sort of flimsy in a way. And it's Hey, actually,

Aaron Brien: 1:00:31

example. Okay. That's how we think. What do we think? Right? Yeah. So a couple of years ago, we received a grant to do some battlefield archaeology through the American battlefield protection program. This whole this whole thing was born out of previous works on this battlefield. Yeah. Called the arrow Creek battle site near prior. Yeah. And it's a battle that a lot of crows know about. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an awesome story. Yeah, I got the late Elias goes ahead and nonprofit called our Montana and yeah, with, along with some other professors got together, and they put together this gigantic document on the as close to a complete oral history and mapping of this battle. But at the end, they say, this is like where you could do more work, do more work, right? Yeah. And I had heard some stories from different CRO people, that that kind of filled in some gaps that I did see in the in the thing. So when we wrote the grant got the grant, we started doing the work. Yeah. Instead of saying, oh, Aaron's doing a continuation of a previous project. People wanted to put it side by side and say, errands competing with this document. Oh, and it was like, why? Yeah. I'm not I'm actually doing the very thing they said to do at the end. If you read it, Eli is says, this is what needs to be done. Next. These are the steps that can go next. Yeah. And that's all we did was take that one idea, and we went for it, you know? Yeah. But instead, there's this weird competition that happens. So Oh, Aaron's doing about arrow Creek battle thing. While I already did that, that's already done. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:02:23

I mean, he must be trying to compete. Yeah, he must be no more than him. To be better than him.

Aaron Brien: 1:02:32

A man like there's a lot of uncap knowledge about that battle, as there are many battles. But there's also some other things that I feel like they missed. That's not a diss on them. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't have known those gaps if they didn't do the work.

Shandin Pete: 1:02:49

Right. Right. Yeah. And I think that I guess that's the approach with this kind of the scholarship that's out there on indigenous matters that we've been talking about. We've been kind of bashing on it, but I'd respect it, man. Let's respect someone who can write, you know, 15 pages of text and try to describe something that's pretty pretty abstract. I don't I wouldn't say it's, I wouldn't say that. You know, some have done a great job, but least they did some of

Aaron Brien: 1:03:18

its garbage. is garbage. Some of its garbage. That's also the nature of such a young field. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:03:27

Yeah. So like that. Like what you said in the one episode with Nicola, you get that nod for that one good song that you made. Then you're allowed 10 Trash songs after that, you know.

Aaron Brien: 1:03:42

I actually listened to that podcast. That was one of the funnier podcasts. I've listened to man. Like, it was it was like fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's one thing people always say they're like, men. It's cool that you guys talk about music, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, for one, it's one of the few topics I feel comfortable recommending not with my with my own personal knowledge, I feel comfortable talking about if you were to sit here and talk about hydrology. For one that'd be super boring dude.

Shandin Pete: 1:04:19

Well, I mean, certain audiences depreciate a good hydrological chair. I don't know about ours.

Aaron Brien: 1:04:29

No, no. Okay. So here. Did we come up with anything? Are we going to are we going to attempt to write an abstract through this Yes, little thing.

Shandin Pete: 1:04:40

You know what? I don't I wouldn't mind trying it out. Okay, I wouldn't mind trying it out. We'd have to come up with the with the thought and an idea. But it seems fitting for the call, you know, they want something new refreshing. I guess that's kind of what the The call seemed to be for. So we just had to pick sort of something to latch on to and

Aaron Brien: 1:05:08

just

Shandin Pete: 1:05:10

beat it up a bit or, you know, beat our heads to try to figure out how we would describe some in the, in the, in the essence of what you're talking about her and, yeah, let's do it, then we'll, we'll look at this

Aaron Brien: 1:05:24

as a special issue of an American Indian culture and research journal. Yeah. I'm going to read the first couple lines, right. Okay. To open a space for reclaiming and rewriting Indigenous histories, science and experiences from an indigenous perspective. She seeks which emits Dr. Paulette Steve's or envies Steve's, Steve's guests editor. Ah, six essays that discuss indigenous knowledge and research on archaeology, anthropology, culture, environmental studies and justice. This collection would include critiques on Western discussion. The Center for indigenous knowledge big an issue, but I guess, broad To be honest, it's pretty broad topic. broad topic. I think we're as qualified as anyone to talk about this stuff. Sure. I even proposed to you a title. And you laughed at it.

Shandin Pete: 1:06:32

No, he's been serious. I get that when you're serious. You're not what? There's a tobacco down knowledge of

Aaron Brien: 1:06:41

a practitioners view of indigenous research on land and language. I like

Shandin Pete: 1:06:47

that. Yeah. I would say I do like that. But I would probably just choose one or the other language.

Aaron Brien: 1:06:55

We're gonna use. We're gonna use language in it. We're gonna talk about land. Okay. Okay, click bait. We're not gonna get into a linguistic study of things. Yeah, it's just yeah,

Shandin Pete: 1:07:10

that's why I thought dropped the language. Just focus on land. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Like,

Aaron Brien: 1:07:17

why did you see that? Cuz it's in a text. They talk all he said, You see, you text me what I say? What I say two worlds and indigenous guy bullshit.

Shandin Pete: 1:07:37

living in two worlds or two worlds? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we need that one. Do we need to write that one, too? That one's already been written. I mean, yeah, pick up a lot of text. You see that one? No, I like that. Let's stick with that. We're gonna build the abstract off of that. So this is a good time for listeners to kind of maybe chime in on what their thoughts are on that. Because I'd be curious to know, like you said, what? Peer reviewed your call to action called action, mobilize. Mobilize the tribal research specialists, audience, we're mobilizing. We're gonna crank this out. See what we're

Aaron Brien: 1:08:21

gonna uncolonized mobilization how long we've been doing this, how long we've been going right now.

Shandin Pete: 1:08:27

hour and a half.

Aaron Brien: 1:08:29

Dude, let's start.

Shandin Pete: 1:08:30

Let's wrap. We'll say man, you

Aaron Brien: 1:08:31

don't know how we don't have a schedule like people. Maybe that's we don't keep a schedule on recording. Like I was just on my way back from power pulling the Burger King. I called you. And I said, Hey, boys are talking smack and I said, you want to record tonight? And then he

Shandin Pete: 1:08:48

said yeah, let's get this smack on record. Well, because

Aaron Brien: 1:08:51

it was almost like turning into that disgust See, that's the thing with you and i This podcast is now ruined our ability to just have conversations. We can't do it man. We can't because we started talking to me like should we get this down?

Shandin Pete: 1:09:05

Let's not let's not go any further. Let's get it we're like

Aaron Brien: 1:09:09

we're like rappers you know? Yeah. We start a flow never got to lay that track down.

Shandin Pete: 1:09:17

This was another thought I had maybe maybe your listeners can pipe in on we should we should do some live recordings. You know, I was gonna us contemplating getting a small recorder with some mics to do some live podcasts. What do you think about that?

Aaron Brien: 1:09:35

I'm down for whatever you because Dude, I don't censor anything I say yeah. I know you do some editing but I know you don't do a whole lot like you don't know you mainly cut out like dead time, right? It's what you're telling me cut dead time like weird, awkward little

Shandin Pete: 1:09:50

phrasing. Some awkward phrasing. I used to censor content. Yeah, I used to censor curse words, but I just stopped that's was worth it.

Aaron Brien: 1:10:00

Well, and I'm doing my best not cuz you can

Shandin Pete: 1:10:03

just let it down. Yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah, live live podcast. And there

Aaron Brien: 1:10:10

was one episode where I said a whole bunch. You did? And

Shandin Pete: 1:10:13

I think I'll just let them all go. Yeah, Live Live Live podcasting. I've been to a couple places conferences, I thought, Oh, this would be a good place to maybe this is my thought to catch an interview with somebody who I thought was interesting. And then us talk about that interview.

Aaron Brien: 1:10:32

We think about that. Yesterday, we got to go to a conference. So together. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:10:37

Well, I was talking about, you know, an, an occasion where I'm at a conference where we're not both there. I interview somebody who seems that has an interesting perspective. And then the podcast is us talking about that interview, you know,

Aaron Brien: 1:10:53

do they know what we should do?

Shandin Pete: 1:10:55

What is it? Do?

Aaron Brien: 1:10:56

We should do conference reviews?

Shandin Pete: 1:11:01

Dude, we should. That's a good one. That's what we need to answer. We need a sponsor to

Aaron Brien: 1:11:06

send us two to three conferences a year. Yeah. And our job is just

Shandin Pete: 1:11:11

yeah, we would go to the EU we go to the sessions. We get the invocation. The keynote. We hit the plenaries we can even review the banquet. Review the banquet. Bird registration process. Give me

Aaron Brien: 1:11:30

Give me a conference social hour. You give me a conference social hour. Dude, I'll shred it.

Shandin Pete: 1:11:37

This is this would be the kind of view that would need to like a video as well to accompany some of our thoughts. Because you know the conference native. We need some to regulate that man. We need some little bit of shame thrown in. Just kidding not.

Aaron Brien: 1:11:58

Oh, dude. I grew up in it. We grew up on the rez did you get shamed? You? Do

Shandin Pete: 1:12:05

you show up to school with them for re getting it?

Aaron Brien: 1:12:12

Oh, dude, you dare not change your style? Oh,

Shandin Pete: 1:12:16

no, no, no, dude, no. No style changes.

Aaron Brien: 1:12:20

You change your style. Overnight. You're getting it done. Do

Shandin Pete: 1:12:34

MAN Yeah. Okay, so that's the call. We need to sponsor. Send us off to two three conferences. We'll give you an honest the most honest review you're gonna get from the perspective of tribal research specialist. Tell your friends. Tell your rich benefactors.

Aaron Brien: 1:12:55

Your Hey, anybody else that has the podcast? Yeah. Yeah, guys, shout us out. Or we'll be guests on your podcast, whatever. Do you listen to us? Yeah. Yeah, it will be guest I want to be I want to. Yeah, what do you side by side? Yeah. Yeah,

Shandin Pete: 1:13:09

we want to get the word out. Yeah. Want to get the word out to do it. Okay. We're done with this one. No, we are done. All right. We're done.