Can you hear me now? 0:00
Goose from the stronghold. 0:55
Old school rock and roll. 7:33
Chicken Dance song. 10:56
The beginning of fancy dancing. 15:05
Fancy dance competitions and trophies. 20:08
The flare from the rocker. 26:39
Cool names and nicknames. 32:14
Ruffling your rocker. 40:03
The power that comes from the floor. 46:06
Nighttime is just dancing. 50:41
Getting into the top four. 56:30
How important is the origin of something? 1:04:15
The knife and the bandaid. 1:11:06
Singing and singing. 1:16:35
Fancy Dance by Featherstone. 1:22:47
Dance to the drums. 1:32:58
Dancing in Bozeman. 1:42:22
Spaghetti for dinner. 1:44:08
Guest: Walter RunsAbove
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
Audio clip by: Thinking of Driving - by Kjartan Abel.
Visit https://kjartan-abel.com/library to find free music for your next project.
This work is licensed under the following: CC BY-SA 4.0 Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International.
Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxb
Twitter: @tribalresearchspecialist
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialist
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179Q
Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com
Click below ↓ to...
Can you hear me now? 0:00
Goose from the stronghold. 0:55
Old school rock and roll. 7:33
Chicken Dance song. 10:56
The beginning of fancy dancing. 15:05
Fancy dance competitions and trophies. 20:08
The flare from the rocker. 26:39
Cool names and nicknames. 32:14
Ruffling your rocker. 40:03
The power that comes from the floor. 46:06
Nighttime is just dancing. 50:41
Getting into the top four. 56:30
How important is the origin of something? 1:04:15
The knife and the bandaid. 1:11:06
Singing and singing. 1:16:35
Fancy Dance by Featherstone. 1:22:47
Dance to the drums. 1:32:58
Dancing in Bozeman. 1:42:22
Spaghetti for dinner. 1:44:08
Guest: Walter RunsAbove
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)
Audio clip by: Thinking of Driving - by Kjartan Abel.
Visit https://kjartan-abel.com/library to find free music for your next project.
This work is licensed under the following: CC BY-SA 4.0 Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International.
Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxb
Twitter: @tribalresearchspecialist
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialist
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179Q
Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com
Click below ↓ to...
What I can hear Aaron No, he's got issue.
Aaron Brien:Can you hear me now?
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I can hear you. There must be this right gotta be then. Yeah, it's gotta be that.
Aaron Brien:Can I just keep using this?
Shandin Pete:Whatevs. Do it
Aaron Brien:is it working?
Shandin Pete:Yeah, I can hear you.
Aaron Brien:Is it whack a duck?
Shandin Pete:This guy man, you know what? This guy every time is the same thing well last time wasn't. He's always fumbling around trying to set his stuff up last minute. He's got all kinds of cords. Ever get it? Right. I even water it.
Aaron Brien:I don't want to hear it.
Shandin Pete:I'm not done telling my story. I don't need I bought him this fancy arm and microphone rig material so he could get nice audio. He's probably still in the box.
Aaron Brien:I don't like this at all. If well doesn't have to have a fancy mic. Why do I got a fancy mic?
Unknown:Well,
Walter Runs Above:the further Arab looks cool. Doesn't need Yeah, looks like looks like goose from Top Gun.
Shandin Pete:Your goose? goose egg
Aaron Brien:was not a Native American
Shandin Pete:that we know of.
Aaron Brien:Appreciate. Spell kidmore
Shandin Pete:No, goose was good. Oh yeah. Goose was Val Kilmer
Aaron Brien:part. Part.
Shandin Pete:Well, he went to the stronghold
Aaron Brien:Red Deer table Red Deer table
Shandin Pete:counts for something he's drinking drinky drink will come up with oh, what's your what's his name? Whole auntie. What's her name?
Aaron Brien:I don't know.
Shandin Pete:That actress. Lucy? twos? Yeah, yeah.
Aaron Brien:Come in and have some more color pee.
Walter Runs Above:Gonna throw that in there a little bit more.
Shandin Pete:Oh, okay. You do it.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, well, I wasn't a follow up. Oh.
Aaron Brien:I think Shawn Dean actually sounded more like the lady on Tinder than you did. A man before we start, let's say congratulations to well, man. He's a champion.
Shandin Pete:What? What happened?
Aaron Brien:This week? This weekend? He's a champion, man.
Shandin Pete:What did he do?
Aaron Brien:What he's chasing the dream. What did you do? chasing the dream?
Walter Runs Above:I see. No.
Shandin Pete:You know, it's something when the Indian guy says oh is nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Went to the moon. It's nothing.
Aaron Brien:He wants to Ford Hall for Hall and one the 40 and over
Shandin Pete:basketball. Right?
Aaron Brien:Right. Well
Walter Runs Above:where do you know over 14 over camps?
Shandin Pete:Or do you know we're no dunks? Don't know can't
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, no layups No.
Aaron Brien:head shake. And then throughout is see five.
Walter Runs Above:Dislocated bag right here. Yeah. Holy cow, man.
Shandin Pete:What did you What was your score? How did how did you get? How did you do?
Walter Runs Above:Ah, well, we I felt really bad our first game because I was reading the rules. Yeah. And one of the rule like the Mercy rules was like 50. Anything over 50 You know, just wherever you're at in the game, it just stops. Oh, yeah. And then I think the next mercy rule down was like, like, after four minutes, are at four minutes in the fourth quarter. If you're out 30 Then mercy rule. Yeah, so our first game we played. We had rode like we kind of combined with another team, you know from Montana. Yeah. got guys that we usually play play against all the time, but it was kind of cool to kind of come together and play but anyways, yeah, we ended up we scored 5055 points at halftime. and other team only had six. That's. And it was kind of fun because at halftime we thought, Oh, we only need one more point, you know, like, are they really gonna stop the game? You know, that kind of everybody's talking? Yeah. So right before it was their ball coming out a half and one of the other players started talking to me and he goes, Hey, let us get to 10 You know, like, let us get to 10 Do you want to keep playing but just let us get to 10 and I'm like, Yeah, sure, whatever, you know, and their first shot, they missed I rebounds. And it was just it was just like reaction, you know, just to go on a fast break. Yeah, we went on a fast break and I pass it up to one of our players and then he passed it you know, it's like a it's kind of a cool play it like boom, boom. And he finished like he finished and we we 1551 points and that's game
Shandin Pete:you call the treaty
Walter Runs Above:guy that asked like what are the other players? He asked after we hit after we 50.8 They called the game he just went all but we felt like they maybe we should have just let them get him you know, at least but he said
Aaron Brien:he says they felt bad but they went into backing they're like we're still got it rose
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, no, it was. It was a lot of fun, you know, playing and, but it was it was more it was more really inspirational and anything motivational. Yeah. Cuz, you know, like, when he when you're younger, you don't think 40s old or 45 You know, like you don't you know? Think that's old. But you know, because it was the same week and they were having the 50 and over the 60 and over 65 and over so it was it was quite the quite the experience because it was my very first time ever playing in the 40 and over tournament already young 40
Shandin Pete:What if
Aaron Brien:they mean Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Oh, you're a young 40
Aaron Brien:My my time doubles now. I'm gonna hit only 40 and overs now. I'm gonna be like the new kid at school. Everyone's back who sky is over?
Shandin Pete:It never started.
Aaron Brien:No, it's never too late. No, Johnny I don't like this negative. Yeah, we're gonna build chuck your chock full of negativity. gonna build people up all right.
Shandin Pete:All right. I'm gonna build you guys up right now. I'm gonna build you up with this the song man you ready for it? Here let's hear it you might recognize this and you might not but you might recognize the style I'm curious who these people are because I don't I still don't know yet it's a I just don't know come on for all real to real here we go hear that? Right And what do you think? Was the song do you recognize?
Walter Runs Above:Rock and roll? That's old school rock and roll, right? They're
Shandin Pete:saying it to hear that one partner where they kind of the tone kind of goes off. Yeah, it kind of sounds like it slows down for a second. I thought that was this like a recording. Like maybe the tape got stretched or some what it does it consistently and I never heard it like that before.
Walter Runs Above:That's that's that is different.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, that's unique. Pretty unique. What kind of song do you think that is? I mean, I think I know because that kind of says on the on the on the real earlier, but I'm wondering, what does that sound like? it's quiz time. it's quiz time. Quiz time.
Aaron Brien:It's a it's a blanket dance song.
Shandin Pete:Here provided the audio you just is the following song. A, a round dance song. Be a crow hop. See? A chicken dance song. V. either A or C. E. None of the above?
Aaron Brien:I'll defer to well.
Walter Runs Above:I'm gonna go out on a limb and I'm gonna say that a warm up song before granting treat. So
Shandin Pete:none of the above? Yeah,
Aaron Brien:I think that's one of them songs when you're recording. You recording and it's between sessions and you have to record two more songs for your your CD your CD. Oh, yeah. We need two more songs, guys. Yeah, so we say we sing the one Walt made on the way over you got he refers to it. He refers to it as a jazzy tune to know anything about jazz. Nothing.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, you got your cousin with his with his with his MacBook on a folding table right by the drum recording on GarageBand
Aaron Brien:Yeti mic that he owns on Hawk nephew that wants to be a YouTuber. That's true story. That's clearly that's clearly a chicken dance song.
Shandin Pete:Right? Oh, yeah. Pretty certain. We really
Aaron Brien:mean chicken dance songs really just come from that greater grass dance style of singing? Yeah. It exhausts the same cadence. The format. Yeah, it's all born out of that, man.
Shandin Pete:I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm trying to be positive here. Okay. Jenna be positive. Don't know, attack.
Aaron Brien:I would say I would say certain tribes or certain groups of people perfected. Yeah. A sub genre within the grass dance style of singing. Yeah. And then we would call that like, like, like who was it? Who are we talking about here?
Shandin Pete:You got it. Get it?
Aaron Brien:I don't know. Like, I don't know what I'm saying. Certain groups can sing chicken den songs better than others because that's their thing. Yeah, like water was sidesteps right. It's like they're saying that's interesting. All right. Do you concur? Well,
Shandin Pete:I concur. Okay, well, we got
Aaron Brien:Zach battle River. Yeah, just bring up battle river dude. But what they do like the way they drum though, it's bad. I some about it, dude. It's like yeah, I know what it is. It's pretty nuanced though. In singing to me because if most people heard high noon, and then most people heard about a river they'd be like, Oh, they sound good, but they're very different.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:Anyway, I'm sorry. We should
Shandin Pete:yeah. It should be but no
Aaron Brien:stupid stupid talking about
Shandin Pete:No, I don't know I don't know yet. But we got we got somebody here who's kind of got some experience in a lot of things. We just learned about his basketball when his basketball career spends money The decades did you play basketball in Headstart you played at Headstart, basketball? Well,
Walter Runs Above:earliest memory I can remember. And I have to reflect on my memory probably like 1986 a week yeah. So I was three years old I can remember
Shandin Pete:being negative to
Walter Runs Above:s3 I can remember going to the old Frazier high school gym. Yeah. You know when he had tournaments and such over there Yeah, I remember watching my my dad and my uncle's play.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. And then little itty bitty shorts.
Walter Runs Above:And they had the they had the long spat and that's when spandex first came out. Oh really? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:I remember that. shorts over spandex
Walter Runs Above:Yeah cuz one of my uncle's came out in spandex thinking that's how you're supposed to wear he wear shorts over the spandex and he was warming my bad shorts over those are really look back into the locker No, I remember that. Oh, high school gym and Fraser knee you know those old school backwards that were they were rounded. Square. Yeah. Yeah. Remember those? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. It's like the look like the back of a highchair some? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no.
Aaron Brien:Well, you dated yourself by even saying what kind of the highchair like the back of it the ones are used to slide the tray out.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah. Yeah. To get the jam is finger in there, you know, dangerous.
Walter Runs Above:I was used to get myself out of the highchair because of the buttons underneath.
Shandin Pete:So this is the thing. This is what I'm curious about. I was thinking about this and pulled some information, you know, there's not a lot of great information that you find published about fancy dancing. They just can't find it. You know, it's not something that people write about, I guess. And I found this thing it says it suggests that the historical record D marks the fancy dance starting in the late 19th century. Apparently, the Wild West shows and Oklahoma was trying to get the Indians to dance a bit more fancy. You know, they didn't they didn't want to see the the old dances of the plains is wonder. fancy it up for the audience. Now I know you are have a long history in this style of dancing. What have you heard about this? The beginning the origin of the fancy dance?
Walter Runs Above:The origin Yeah, that's a tobacco question. A
Aaron Brien:tobacco question
Shandin Pete:we'll get we'll get an Uber Eats to get stopped over at the 711 and smokes
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, yeah. No, the you know, when fancy dancing. You know how it evolved, you know, evolved from when we did have those Wild West shows, you know, the buffalo Buffalo Bill, Cody. There's a lot of things that stemmed from those things, you know, in my great, my great grandfather, you know, Peter Ely Yeah, Ron, well, you know, he was a trick roper in Buffalo Bill Cody's show. Yeah. And then Iron Tail. You know, who's runs a Bob's runs above his dad so it goes Iron Tail runs Bob's Peter Ely. And then my grandpa, then my dad. They were all a part of that. The Wild West Show Buffalo Bill Cody. Fairytale. So there's a lot a lot of the stories that come from the Wild West shows talking about you know how basically kind of Iron Tail was the right hand person to Buffalo Bill Cody. Yeah. He was kind of like the first one of the first Native liaisons, you know, like how we have nowadays? Yeah. Handling. Yeah, the handler, the expert, you know, but they would go, you know, to these reservations, when they were established their first established these reservations long time ago, and, you know, entertainment value, you know, they looked for the songs, they looked for the dancing, they looked for, like, the regalia, they looked for uniqueness, you know, they're looking for those things, and then they would invite them out, you know, they would have these dance competitions, and he's, you know, they were, who had the stamina, who, you know, who could, who could dance dance the hardest? And who had the moves, you know, a lot of different them. And so, you know, down in, in the earlier days, you know, for the history of fancy dancing, you know, that came out of Oklahoma area. Yeah. You know, the punker tribes, you know, you know, the southern tribes down there, when he had, you know, the high school institution held, it's for the first annual fancy dance contest, you know, and they, they said that, whoever, whoever was going to win this, you know, their tribe can claim, you know, those, that fancy dance championship, they can claim it for their own. And, you know, Gus McDonald was one of the first ones or one of the, the first ones to win that. And so they brought that back, you know, to the panko people. So, every year since then, you know, there's, they had a trophy, they have world champions of dancing, you know, down in the pocket area. Yeah. You know, I've always heard these stories like this, you know, and then there's always, you know, I've heard of other people that I've looked up to that, you know, at these powers, you know, growing up, you when I, when I grew up, you know, in the, the 80s and the early 90s, you know, there was a lot of dancers that came through, you know, Montana area, you know, back before, like the casinos really took off. Yeah. Back before when, you know, the, the bigger the bigger, the now you have what the California circuits and all this because circuits in search, but, you know, back when it was springtime college powers, and then June came, and you know, you had your highlight powers all that, but the year when these big powers would come, you know, like, the bigger powers, you know, like round, say, like New Town area, like new town, little show. You know, Hank Lee started getting up there prayer Island, like these places like that, you know, Rocky Boy. Yeah, I remember, we would always wait until Rocky Boy came around, because that's when, you know, you saw the southern dancers or if you want to little shout, you know, you saw the southern dancers come up. Yeah. And so then he, you know, like, the became a fan. You know, like you became, you know, as you were in awe of, a lot of these dancers. Yeah. And so one of the things that, that always stuck out was the rocker, you know, they had the, the rocker on top, the two feathers on top, and it just goes to the movement of the, of the song, you know, the speed of the song. And so, a lot of that kind of all goes back to history, you know, the hackle feathers, the eagle bustles, all of that all of that comes back into the history of how it used to be in in the old you know, the Wild West shows because from the stories that were shared with me from my dad to you know, his dad to his grandpa and you know, a lot of these a lot of these people that were in a shows, you know, they would do these high jumps and these high kicks, you know, in like reenact a battle or you know, those were those kinds of stories. And so in a way you know, from where we come from, you know, like on our, on my old Galala side or my Northern Cheyenne side, you know, there's these these dog soldiers stories, you know, and Cheyennes were pretty well known back at those times for dog soldiers to be a soldier. And so sometimes, you know, in, you know, like, my, some gentleman's that they looked up that I look up to you, you know, like, one of them is Dwight White Buffalo. And I just remember his, his rocker, you know, like losing the afterburner rocker, you know, it just was always. That's, that's what was cool. You know, like, yeah. And so, I remember talking to him a lot. I remember Damon Brady was probably one of the first northern dancers that I saw with a rocker because normally you never really saw northern fancy. There's with rockers, they always wear spinners. So I remember, you're always an RG Harris, you know, and jobaline t, you know, and then then I saw late Todd red bear, have a rocker, you know, but I never saw I always saw, like these other northern dancers with spinners. And so I was, my first question was, what's the significance of the rocker? Yeah, you know, yeah. And there's, you know, it's just, it's just a way to show the speed, your agility, you know, your timing, you know, your quickness. And it's just the way you know, it's a way it's not, it helps the dancer, but it's the flare from the rocker. And how it goes along with the song, the rocker in the songs, the original PANCA songs, there, they intertwine they there, they go with each other. And so that was the first question was the rocker. And so with it came all this history about the punker stories, the punker songs, you know, not just not just there, but like the Kiowa stories, the Kiowa songs, those a lot of these things like that, and, and so and just like when he danced to, you know, like, men's traditional with a dance, you know, in a have these songs, these word songs are these particular songs and, and I hear some stuff, you know, and I want to saw ask, you know, when my, when my adult had the greatest teacher, and the one of the best singers you know, in a father, you know, my late father. So, I would ask him questions about certain songs, certain things and, you know, up here in the northern country, we, you know, we had necklace breakers and, and then the, you know, and then I realized how lucky I was because I had Eagle whistles, you know, eagles, so uncles and they would tell me all these all these different one of my uncle's like Alex Gwynn and My other uncle late Dean Peter, Dean Fox, you know, and then my uncle Wade Baker, but they would, they would sing all the time, they'd sing not just necklace breaker songs, they would sing these foot slide songs with words in them. They'd sing these G's, just regular intertribal songs with words in them. So it was always a, I always made it a point to ask, What am I dancing to? Or what are these? What are these words that are in the songs? And then then the encouragement of like, learning language and, you know, and, you know, not only are you learning, you know, like, the Lakota, Dakota Nakota songs, you know, you're learning Hidatsa songs, you're learning Rick Ross songs, you know, you like all these different meanings behind the songs. And by knowing those things, it makes you dance differently.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Yeah. It
Walter Runs Above:makes it makes you move differently because it just has that. It adds to the it adds to what you're trying to do, you know, adds to the to your talent they guess. Yeah. And so with the you know, the the our origination of fancy dancing or the you know the beginning and how it came about through the through that fancy dance contest down in high school and panko putting on all these these championships year after year and you go as a fancy dancer you know, even though it's originated down from the south, you know, it eventually evolved through time and it came up people made its way up here to the northern countries or the northern country, I should say Canada area, you know, yeah, North Dakota, Minnesota, you know, Montana Idaho. And so there's a lot of cool cool fancy ranches that came from out of nowhere you know and they became idols to us younger generations you know, like we got to see the late like the lead late beat the bears tail you know late Tony Brown, late rainbow Azure Stan and Luke white man, you know, Alvin, Alvin windy boy, you know, my dad dad's fancy I never got to see him dads but I heard heard some pretty cool stories about how you said that down here and lamed your area around Montana area, you know but but when the southern boys would come up you know, it was a sight to see because then you heard different songs you know, you heard you heard the different kinds of singing that's what was really cool because he go to these powers any any saw you know, RG Harris joeboy At the White White Buffalo, Henry Henry McClellan. Late Billy McLoughlin, you know, shoots, aka boo. Norman new writer. Cool, cool, new cool nickname, aka Whoo. What is
Shandin Pete:like a sushi roll? I think a
Walter Runs Above:lot of these dudes have so you know, had some real cool names. And, and so you know, he grew up idolizing these guys. You know, because everyone, everybody that I mentioned, you know, and there's, there's a whole lot more that I looked up to, you know, like, over every state, it seemed like every state, every reservation had had their dude, you know, they had their little guy, and, and then when he would all come together, I remember in Rocky Boy when they first had northern fancy and southern fancy. You know, and there is a lot of dancers, but I think there's like 5040 4050 dancers. And so I remember the northern, you know, the northern fancy they get their trick songs, you know, from, you know, either Mandiri who whistles you know, whoever, whoever was the northern jobs at that time. Yeah. And then the southern drums you know, like, like, you heard him like the rose hills and COEs ads and the yellow hammers, the gray horse singers you know, like a lot of those a lot of those guys would come up with a thank you brothers. And so as a young kid, it was awesome to stay up till like three o'clock in the morning. You know, stay up late and watch these fancy dancers kick it out, you know and dance to three or four songs you know and they had the big heavy bells the sounds the sounds of the bells going to the to the songs you know, just hear that you know, and it was really awesome and it was I was never disappointed anywhere I went growing up I was never disappointed because you saw you know like I said the demon breeds the Todd red bears you know the weight keeps Eagles you know all these these cool northern cats and, and I remember this one, you know, late Phillip chi U 's nickname was smiley soon everybody had a cool nickname?
Shandin Pete:What's your nickname? Don't want to say it. I don't have one in Montana. Oh, you keep going
Walter Runs Above:Oh, but anyway, wait, wait filler word, he would dance northern fancy, he would be in a northern fancy. And then he would exhibition with the southern fancy. And Holy smokes. That was, that was really something to see, you know, as a site, I can remember just going back to the camp and, you know, just pumped up and trying to imitate what I saw, you know, because, because that was the other thing too, is everybody had their own style, everybody had their own look, you know, and, and they made it work for them. And, you know, it was really, it was really cool to see that. So, but Fancy Dance wise, you know? You know, it's, it's a, it's the southern dance, you know, and it deserves to be treated and shown with respect. You know, because there's a lot of people that, you know, that they don't they jump in the pool. Asking if the water is cold or hot, or how deep it is, you know, or what's, what's in it, you know, like, that's how I kind of compare it to dancing, you know, like, with my, my own son, if he wants to know, some, you know, I'll tell them to go check out or go ask certain people if I if I see them there, you know, so like, Michael Roberts has been really influential. Not on my not just my own life, but with cactuses, because he's a pretty cool dude. And he shares a lot of that fancy dance wisdom, you know, that dancing wisdom, I guess you could say. And so one of the cool things that I learned in my young life was the PANCA trip. I started, I started paying more attention, closer attention on you know, dancing, certain dancing a certain way, using your rocker things like that. And, and so one of the things you know, like, like, I remember, some, like, my dad would say, if you want to, you know, something, or if you want something done, do it yourself, you know, that kind of a thing, you know, seek out those answers yourself, you know, and, and so, like I said, when I started with the rocker, you know, I learned about the rocker, I asked, you know, you'd be like, a distant relative, but we are related, but the white white wolf will, you know, he asked him about his rocker. And so he showed me how to make it. He talked to me he's telling me about, you know, dog soldiers stories, usually sharing a lot of cool, cool things like that, and then telling me about different songs and you know, what certain songs mean and how to how to go about dancing to them and, and how he, how he dances and such. Yeah. Oh, but I remember, you know, in 1989 You know, I can remember people's rockers I don't know why just their bustles their their their look, I can remember that but and then they had their their dance whistle you know, everybody had a dance whistle. And so with the fancy dancing piece, you know, I asked the White about Uncle the wire about his rocker and he shared with me all that information. And then I went I took it a step further, and I just asked him I say that and can I you know, can I start making these and then he said, he said Yeah, make your own rock or if you can make your own rock or you know that you know, that's step one, kind of a thing you know. And then the other questions were about the songs punkers have some some really cool songs with panko words and you know and in a lot and then not just those those word songs but just the straight songs there's a lot there's a lot of stories that come with a straight songs and then the ruffles the ruffles is is what really is what's really cool because like, nowadays, like when you see fancy dancers dance to a ruffle like they're running all over the floor turns into a track me you know
Shandin Pete:karate kicks in there too, right? Yeah, yeah. to crank
Aaron Brien:a sleeve to karate kick along. Okay, okay, good.
Shandin Pete:How to Move.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. All by 100 relay out there, jump high jump, you know, it's just the one big track. And but, you know, the rough with the ruffling of the song, you know, it's, you ruffle your feathers, you're ruffling your body, you know, like you're, and then you're ruffling your rocker. And then then when a song takes off, then your body goes with that song, your rocker goes, you know, it's, it's kind of like imitating how a horse, when he gets up from the ground, and he shakes his shoulders, he shakes his head, his main lifts his tail around kicks, his kind of kicks his legs in the back, you know, because he's, he just got, you know, getting off the ground, if you're watching his horses do that. And so that's kind of like, what it's imitating is that horse and then that first song, the first verse, you know, it kind of goes smooth, and that's that, that trot of that horse, and then ruffles again, and that second one comes in, and by the time it gets to the end, that or that horse isn't full blast, you know, like, like, ears, back and running. So it's kind of imitating that's the story behind it's like the, the speed of so that was shown or shared with me by my uncle. He took me as his relative, Henry McClellan. He shared that he shares a lot of stuff with me, and I really appreciate that. And so, so that was the, you know, a lot of people talk to me about or asked me questions about my rocker in. And it's one of the most important things that you can, that you need when you're dancing as a fancy dancer, you know, is the rocker. And, like I said, it's a southern dance. It's a Southern, you know, it made its way up here. And so I learned how to make these and that's one of the make a rocker. And so one of the cool things was that the way the style that the white showed me, who made his rocker was one of the all time Fancy Dance champions of late Billy McClellan. And so when I learned how to make this rocker and I, you know, made I made so many of them now that, you know, I can, like, you know, it's, it's pretty, it's just like putting on a shoe, I guess, you know, it's, it's pretty easy. And, but every time you know, I remember when Uncle the white first told me about, you know, the, the ability, McClellan story and his rocker and how he made his rocker, you know, for Dwight in and I thought that was really cool, because, you know, Uncle Henry took me as a, as a relative. And I told him, that whole story, and so I said, I'm kind of making a design of Billy McClellan rockers, you know, and he kind of been living on like that legacy still. And so, I made a rocker for Uncle Henry. And, you know, when I put feathers on it, everything and when I gave it to him, you know, as a as a way of a means of giving back to that McClellan bloodline, you know, it's just the respect that I have for that bloodline, and Uncle Henry, you know, so that was the idea. And then then from there, I was always getting invited to PANCA. And I don't know how long though, but the last 1213 years, I've been getting invited down to panko power, never had a chance. You know, because we were always doing sound we were always either Indian Relay singing for horses, or we were always doing South mouse, you know. And so finally, last year, 2022 We made it down, me and my son, we drove down to panko together, and all the way down, we're just listening to punk songs. You know, there's a CD there's a recording called excuse me, there's a recording called the contest is on. And it has all the punk songs it has all the you know, the straights, the ruffles the word songs. And during the during, all these times, you know, being invited down here and learning about you know, all these different songs that they sing in PANCA these what they mean and PANCA one of my favorite ones is when they sing about synthetic liszka punkers they, they the Seuss come running up on the parkas and In the palm because we're up on a hill soon as we're kind of down below and the the war the war chief of the pocket challenged the sue the Susan they are calling them Shazi Inglis which in in their language and means little Sue, they were like teasing them taunting them. Because they're up on that hill, they look tiny as they were. So they're calling them Shazi guys. And they're saying little Sue, you know, come up here, come up here and send your send your previous bravest warrior sent him with his spirit and his shield, you know, we'll fight on this yellow bluff. So the one that answered the call was sent a gleesh Spotted Eagle, you know, he want to fly and he ended up dying on that yellow bluff, or that yellow Hill. So they sing that song in, you know, me being on Kota, louder.
Shandin Pete:Heavier, heavier.
Walter Runs Above:But, you know, that's one of my favorite songs to dance to. And then they have the other word songs, but see, like, we have songs about them, too. You know, like these about them? He's necklace breakers. Yeah. And so you learn all these different songs, and it just has a deeper meaning to dancing. Yeah. And you have a deeper understanding a deeper appreciation, you know, for the, for the knowledge to sing, because a lot of these songs they come from that 19th century, you know, the Yeah, from a long time ago, so. And then, then on the northern side, you know, with these necklace breakers that eagle whistles made famous, you know? Yeah. The lot of those songs come from that June 25 1876 fight, you know, like Moto, a lot of that. And then from that era, you know, and so it's kind of cool to see and hear the songs still being sung today. Yeah, and so, what when we made it down to PANCA I was so excited to be there. First time, first time everywhere my my whole life and you know, as a dancer, you know, I dance at Rocky Boy are you dancing red bottom, Brockton Crow Fair? Are Lee, you know, land your mandri little shall you dance at these places like this, where people or people, committee members take care of the arena, you know, that, that community that takes care of that arena. As a dancer, you're like, I don't know how it is with other dancers or singers or what you know, I don't know, if they look at it as Oh, I'm just going to this I'm going to, I'm going to afford all of the dance, you know, that kind of a thing. But for me, every time like if we're going to a power, I always think about the power that is resonated that resonates from that floor. And it in when it's when it's woken up when that dancing ground when it's woken up. It brings another energy, you know to do my soul. I mean, that's what I look for. And then then the songs course the singers, they bring their songs and then the the bowels of the dancers, you know, the laughter The talking of people, you know, jingle dresses, the sounds, you know, it just brings it all together. You know, I felt some some of my favorite places to debts, you know, as always, has always been red bottom lane deer in crow fare. Because of the power that comes from that dance floor. And that's, that's what I that's what I cherish is every year it's addicting. You know, like, you want to dance because you want to dance on that floor because of what's on that floor. What's what's there, you know, and so, I thought I would never feel like that kind of feeling. But when we got to PANCA me and my son, we weren't even we didn't know like the protocol, I guess, you know, like, because down here, it's different. So different, you know, they don't have like Grand Entries. They just have those calling songs and then everybody booms you know, and I think that's awesome. You know? Ah, cuz nowadays everybody needs a grand entry to get going
Shandin Pete:celebrate anything with a grand entry these days is
Walter Runs Above:in so that down there, you know, like they just have these calling songs and people come to the come to the arena, the scene where they sing their songs, they sing them, you know, like four songs at a time, then a break, they do whatever, you know contest or you know whatever they have their they dance in the evening time but they do their gourd dancing, they do all their giveaways on all that during the day. And then nighttime is just dancing and it's it's kind of a cool setup Polly habit. And but, but when we stepped foot on that when he when he first drive in it has a picture of Gus McDonald you know, a world champion, fancy dancer. Oh, yeah, move PANCA punk world of dancing. And, man, it's like, that gave me goosebumps when I saw that. And so, you know, we we got ready. You know, we went to the hotel first kind of a rookie mistake, but we went to the hotel. And we took all of our stuff off and like all it was just cool. Check out the power for the night. You know, check it out. And, and when we get over there, we've seen man they had the fancy dancers on the outside. You know, we saw the we saw Pete Moore, Jr. I do believe it was we saw him he is that he uses dancing stationary and outside. And then you saw Greg Victor's who was 2021 I do believe World Champion fancy dancer. And then these other fancy dancers do stand out and outside. And cactus had a cool analogy metaphor about what he saw is like, man, these guys are like samurais just standing standing there. Revered and um, you know, yeah. So when they came off, you know, it's kind of early in the evening to and Pete Cena says hey, you guys made it down. I'm like yep, one of the guys that always invited me to punker where's your stuff at? That's at the hotel he's day go get it you know I had to go all the way to the hotel grab their stuff came back and you know got ready really fast and and man we got out there. You know we were dancing. And holy smokes that that feeling of stepping onto that dance floor that feeling is very much indescribable. Lots of juice lots of power. Man, it was just it felt so good. I've never danced you know other other places you dance that you find the potholes or you find the gopher holes, you know? Yeah. But over there it was. It was smooth. There was no holes there's no nothing and
Shandin Pete:flat. Flat. No Hill
Walter Runs Above:is perfect.
Shandin Pete:No popcorn No, no all napkins or fry bread Lin.
Walter Runs Above:But yeah, it was it was really my first experience. My first impression of that dance floor was like Holy smokes. It just blew me away. And so you know, I reached I remember reaching down just to touch it to see if it was real. And so because we danced or inner tribe or inner tribals we danced and then we weren't sat on the benches that are just right at the edge of the dance floor. Yeah. So one cool thing that really happened was we were sitting there and I met up with Uncle Henry McLoughlin, you know, he was sitting there with me and we're visiting, you know, man, I'm glad you made it down if you you know, talking like that. And he, the announcer started talking, you know, he said we we have some visitors from Montana, you know, kind of talking out to the people and talking about the they've come to learn our style of dancing the fancy dance and and then he went off into the history of it. And talking about the history of fancy dance and he goes in and he's a but we'll get into that. We'll get into more of that on Sunday. He was but right now he goes in he says over here and he introduced Greg Victor's who was the previous years Fancy Dance champion. And it was Like, he was like, he was introducing us to him, acknowledge him like that. And then he calls on the senator drum. He says, Senator Joe, give it to them. Then I did, you know, started drumming like that, and he started singing that song and, and Michael Roberts was with us and he just popped his whistle. Like, he just blew his whistle, he just popped it. And I was like, boom, you know, every everything, everything I could ask for in a dance in a song, you know, in my, in my regalia, you know, experiencing that for the first time with my son, you know, and my son being 19 You know, and that's how long it took me to get down there, you know, soon. Then we went on, you know, went through the weekend, and we've, I was really lucky. Really fortunate and lucky because just enjoying this the songs. That's it was the real deal. You know, like the real the real stuff. And it wasn't a throw together group. Singing old standby fancy that song like what we get up here, northern country, you know, real stuff and, and so on Sunday, you know, I was really lucky. I was really lucky to I got third. And what I liked about it, I guess, you know, the only southern dancer that that was there that got in the top four, you know, was Michael Roberts. My younger my younger brother, Mitch Baker. He got second and then my nephew. Narnia would be like a cousin, I guess. But my little nephew. Silas White Wolf blue, which is his dad is the white. So he's half from down there. And Silas grew up in Minnesota. Oh, yeah, there was a lot of talk that northern boys came down and first time in the history of punker. One, two and three, I guess northern northern boys were in. That's what was being shared with me. But
Shandin Pete:I do control feedback.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah. Like I was telling everybody I was I could really care less about Lacey. It was just the fact that I made it to the solo rounds. And the fact that we're just dancing in PANCA on that panko floor, you know? Yeah. And the people that that I danced for, you know, like Uncle Henry McClellan. You know, Pete Moore you know, Pat Pacheco, you know, Edmund our koi a lot of these and then and then Norman new writer aku. was, it was, it was very, very satisfying. Yeah, so after everything. After after it all after it was all said and done. I think we stayed there. After the power was over, the dance is over. We stayed there late, like, probably about 233 o'clock in the morning, we were parked right next to my nephew Silas, you know, it was it was it was really cool to watch him go through his emotions, you know, it was really it was pretty surreal moment for him. You know, and for myself, you know, like it was kind of cool is to see that and just to relate like that. So, all of that everything I just talked about is leads up to that fancy that's stories. Yeah. Like that. So if you're going to be a fancy dancer, or just a dancer in general, just you know, like I always encourage people to learn the history of it. Learn the histories of it because many histories you know there's a lot of histories that come with every song every dance, you know, every movement you know a
Shandin Pete:lot to it. Man you've shared with us a lot holy cow. That was really cool. Very good to know. There's a few things I want to kind of walk back just to get some clarification on just for for the listeners to know the songs that you call the necklace breaker. Describe what that is. So people can kind of get an understanding what that is.
Walter Runs Above:So these necklace breakers the songs you know that we have our for verse for verse songs, you know But it goes with the beat the way the beat goes with the song. And there's, from what my dad has, and I have a lot of his old tapes. I have a tape where he's getting all these information from, like Howard bad hand, you know, another well known senior. But getting the information of like, where it comes from and the dialect, you know, what's being said in the song and all these necklace breakers were they're pretty much known for trick songs, you know, just to try to trick you but you know, not not a not a deliberate made up stop. But it was, you know, it was just, it was just the style. Back then, you know, with Eagle whistles, it was just a style here, there's their their style of singing. And so when they would sing, they would sing their necklace breaker stops you know, they would stop in the middle of the song. And then they stop at the end in the second at the end of the second verse and at the end of the fourth verse, so they started calling them to win for you know, Nicholas breaker stops so
Shandin Pete:what was the what did the term necklace breaker like? What does that mean?
Walter Runs Above:Um, so uncle Dean Fox late deem you crazy crazy when you're when you're around, you're when you're around your bros, you know, your brothers in coal either whoever you whatever you deem your bro your brother, you know, these these crazy that the craziness of it, you know? Yeah. And, anyways, one of the stories that I heard, you know, that kind of, kind of came from Uncle Dean Fox, you know, because, like I said, back in the 80s, you know, they sing all the songs, they sing all these word songs like that. Yeah. And, anyways, the when that they were teasing each other, that, you know, because they were, they were, they were a drum group of dancers as well. You know, Uncle Wade, and, you know, Uncle Murphy, Uncle Seymour. You know, they all had they were all fancy dancers and grass dancers, you know, and so when they would sing these songs, they were teasing, because uncle Dean said that he was always teasing everybody is always he's quite quite the the jokester, but yeah, he was teasing Murphy that he was wearing what you call a choker. Yeah. And they rocked him you know that too and further comment like that. Yeah. They they hit while they the first they hit at that fourth that fourth verse, they hit they stopped short. And he you know, he went and it was just perfect timing or like the right moment or you know, it had it was that kind of a thing where uncle Murphy's choker like he stopped short in his his choker come flying off you know, back in those days, anything falls off, they pick it up and walk off the floor, you know? Yeah. So, Uncle Dean got a hold of that and he started started calling it you know, necklace breaker. He started teasing. And your your necklace broke? Well, rock, rocky neck was broke, you know? And so that's kind of like that's what I was told, you know? Yeah, that's true. Alex Glynn? You know
Shandin Pete:that's a good one. Well, what about goose there? Hey, Goose You got any questions?
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, Goose is pretty quiet.
Shandin Pete:I know goose what your goose
Aaron Brien:had to confess something I bit my tongue yesterday man
Shandin Pete:you dt in or what was going on?
Aaron Brien:It's a long story I've been I'm in. I'm in Bismarck, North Dakota. In a hotel room or something. I could take it anymore. No, no. So it's making me every time I talk it hits my tongue. Hurt hurts. I think it's a sign that I need to shut up. Shut up, Eric. No, I liked it. It was good. Yeah, takes. You're making our podcasts pretty easy for us today.
Unknown:Yeah.
Aaron Brien:It's nice. It's cool. Because, you know, I was never a fancy dancer, but you hear like, parts of stuff all the time. Yeah. So it's kind of cool to like, just the biggest thing I got out of it was how important origin is, you know? Yeah, sometimes we sometimes we mess with things or we do things and it's important to go to like the origin of it. Yeah, ground yourself. Yeah, that dense belongs to the punk because like you're saying like, she went to Mecca, man. I mean,
Shandin Pete:yeah. Touch the stone. You touched Stone Man.
Aaron Brien:You walk around that thing?
Shandin Pete:Yeah.
Aaron Brien:It's important. Yeah, it's good. It to me, it's a part of like, acknowledging something, you know? Like, I'm a big fan of citation. If you use something you cite where it comes from. Yeah. So I'm not against borrowing things and how tribes use things and all that. I'm not against that. But I'm, if you're gonna do that, you have to cite it. You know, where it comes from? And so yeah, it's cool. Because if anyone knows Walt, we were teasing about basketball, but I knew him more as a fancy dancer. Yeah. I think there's a whole nother like basketball world that people know him as but I never never even met Walt the basketball
Shandin Pete:player. Yeah. I don't know that guy too much either. I
Aaron Brien:don't even know. I don't even want to know. I want to know him. Yeah. Like he borrows money.
Shandin Pete:Well, the basketball player, he owes me a lot of money.
Aaron Brien:Things he was a hawk things to me all the time.
Shandin Pete:I got this AC unit. need one?
Aaron Brien:I gotta I gotta I got a little story I gotta say about well, he bailed me out of something recently that he probably doesn't even know. He bailed me out of. Oh, yeah. So I don't know. This is gonna be a little like self reflective. Okay. Okay, me. Okay, wait, let's get in the mood. I don't,
Walter Runs Above:I don't, I'm not unemployed.
Shandin Pete:Okay, I'm ready.
Aaron Brien:So I don't drink anymore. And it's been a few years. Since I'm drink. It's, it's really important to me, okay. But every once in a while, you gotta like manage, I gotta manage, like my own self awareness and where I'm at, and kind of what the vibe is. And if I know that that vibe can lead to certain things. I'll bail on it. You know, I'll just pick Alright, I'm gonna take off. Well, we're at, we're at around dance. And it just so happened that the group of people that were there are some of the same people I used to kind of cat around with, you know? And so, we're sitting there and it's fine. It's fun and games. I mean, shit. We're laughing our asses off and then, but then the vibe for me changed because I could see and kind of feel people like planning the night. Oh, yeah. What are we going to do after? And it was pretty tempting to me. Like I was like, that feeling of kind of that. Yeah. You know? Why? You know that feeling? Shawn Dean. I know you. And why you never drink, right?
Walter Runs Above:No. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:So never had the horns that break the skin.
Aaron Brien:No, no, that's good. That's it? Yeah.
Shandin Pete:I've had the horns breaking out. Yeah, break the skin. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:So I I just like, I'm gonna bail on this. But I knew if I grabbed my drum and walked out, it would be like a thing. Where are you going? So I just had my agenda. I told her, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go use the bathroom. But I'm taking you remember me telling you I'm taking off? Yeah. And then I said, Can you just take my drum with you? And so I did. I just walked out and I didn't go back. And a couple of days later, he met up with me, but just that little bit of like, knowing it was like, Okay, if I tell these guys down here, it's not gonna go over the same way. I tell these guys down here. It's not gonna go the same way. Walston right next to me. We're talking shit all night. It's awesome. Just like I didn't even really have to say anything. I don't think I explained it did I know. I just said I'm gonna take off But I'm gonna leave my gym here. And then I just left. I just like snuck off. And I got my gym later, not knowing that that was a pretty big favor to me. So thank you. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Did you Hawk it at the hockey's drum.
Walter Runs Above:He texted me the next day. And he, he said, bring my drum over here and we'll be here at our brother's house and
Shandin Pete:I'm passed out over here.
Walter Runs Above:Say hi. Just wanted to drum.
Aaron Brien:Your years how that drum sounded.
Walter Runs Above:I was like, that's a good job.
Aaron Brien:You know who made that drum? Sean DNP, right.
Shandin Pete:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:It's challenging drum. It's a sweet sounding drum because it's still
Walter Runs Above:holding up the Oh, yeah. It's nice. Storage, a lot of relationships.
Shandin Pete:Broken ones are what?
Aaron Brien:Both all sides are destroyed and mended. Yeah. Myself included.
Shandin Pete:It's the knife and the band aid BOTH Yeah,
Aaron Brien:yeah. So anyway, thank you. Well, I value my sobriety a lot, and I'm selfish with it. So you made it pretty easy to just sneak off and because if if I didn't if someone wasn't there that I trusted my gym with? Man. I'm not saying it would have got that far. But if it really had that feeling of like, Man, this is like the feeling that feeling that? Oh, yeah. So yeah, but I knew well, it wasn't gonna end up at Western pawn. Well, the fancy dancer Well, the basketball player that oh, yeah, suck is gone.
Shandin Pete:The Hawk shop or it's on the kitchen floor with the Kool Aid spilt on it. While it was like
Aaron Brien:it Okay, so you got the fog, California power circuit, or you got the spring Indian basketball tournament. We're in the fall. He was in Montana. I knew he wasn't in California. He wasn't going. So it was like, Well, I'm good. I'm saying it's a safe bet. Either way. It's a safe bet. If it was tournament time don't know
Shandin Pete:that that minivan needs a new carburetor
Walter Runs Above:to move fuzzy, well, yeah,
Aaron Brien:well, it's one of them. Well, it's one of them guys that says he won them when he plays basketball. They're just jealous because I won them got back from Oklahoma, he said, Man, I almost wonder
Shandin Pete:pretty good. No man. But this, this was the perfect example right here of like Aaron said, like citation. This is a good example of like, you know, what these indigenous academics call indigenous research, you know, it's this deep is this deep understanding of something that can be recited, you know, you got the dates, you got the people, you got the context, you got all in one. And then you don't need to write a paper about it. You don't need to publish a book, it serves it serves a different purpose. And a couple of those purposes, you sort of mentioned there, and everyone really, really important one that Aaron reflected on too. And that's this idea, you know, this authority of the things that we do, rests in really understanding that deep, the deep meaning of those things, I would always tell my kids, you know, they wanted to dance, they want to dance jingle. And so now it's not really our way, you know, and if you do want to seek somebody out and ask them about it that knows, so you can sort of gain an authority about it. So you're not just throwing on an outfit because you think it's trendy and cool or looks nice, you know, that and I think that's really kind of what turns me off a bit about some of the power I've seen is that is that sort of, and I don't I wouldn't point the finger at anybody but you know, it's just this sort of unauthentic feel that that you can you can get when you see people adopting a different style. without really understanding or knowing about it, and like I said, the nobody's fault. You know, it's just my own feeling about it, I get it. I kind of feel like I don't want to I don't want to be part of that, because it doesn't feel right. You know,
Aaron Brien:I think you're right. I think you're right, in the sense that like, I think power is its own thing. And there is certain allowances with power, right? It's allowed certain freedom, but at the same time, because of social media, like, it's a lot easier for people to borrow, where like, Walt and I are the same age, we come from a time still where you had to, like walk up to somebody and ask them, like, how do you do that? And that goes for anything you want to use a hammer, someone's gonna show you, you know, you, there wasn't no YouTube video on how to mop up house or floor. Don't be mopping houses. Are you good? But so like, it's timing to some of its timing, you know? And it's still coming from a time where you had to ask people things, but also, yeah, well, it's been pretty modest here. He's also the son of one of the most respected power men ever. So it's not like he's just a guy just kind of like trying to get into dancing. He comes from someone rooted in the traditions of power. So he's grounded himself. So then he's not gonna raise this kid to be a beggar and a borrower. And yeah, he's gonna do it. Right. You know?
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:What she did what she did.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Another interesting one, too, that kind of I have, I feel I feel criticism of is, like the singing, you know, I've been sort of turned off about singing. And I'm really stingy about who I'll decide to sing with. Same for sort of that sort of reason. And I, and it's not I like I said, I don't want to fault nobody. But it's just, it's just me. I want to feel like I'm gaining something in a way, or that I feel like I'm not. I don't know, I got this weird thing that I don't want to damage myself by engaging in something that maybe it's not quite in, in sort of a way that would benefit. I don't know prop progress, or it's like it. I don't know how to describe it, but
Aaron Brien:Well, I would think, would you, you're you're, you're literally a busy guy. So like your time that you can allocate to things. And as I've known you now for over 20 years, or about Yeah, 20 years, probably 21 years anniversary.
Shandin Pete:Is it? Is it is it the crystal Tarbert
Aaron Brien:it's our beige I would say that you you're always about progression. Yeah. Just knowing it's always about progression progression progressive progression, even your recreation was progression. Right everything everything because they seen you mess with horses STD mister singing ceremony like, everything, language, everything, right? Academics, it's all progression. Everything's progression. So I can see how somebody like you would say, okay, if I'm gonna go sing, there's gotta be some level of progression and yeah, some level. Yeah, I don't think that it's sometimes it's like a vast amount. But it's got to be. There's got to be a profit margin. You can't just be like, a throw away weekend. Right, right. Well, I'm a little more I'm a little more willing to throw away a weekend as long as it's fun with the right people. I'm, it's for me. It's more about if I'm going to sit at that gym for 12 hours a day. 10 hours a day. It's got to be cool people, man. I can't I can't I just can't do it, man. Yeah, yeah, I almost don't sing anymore. Like like it's well don't call me he's never called me. Not Not even for an honor song in Billings. It's like come on, dude.
Shandin Pete:But to get to the Cakewalk call.
Aaron Brien:I used to around dance Cakewalk King Kong welcome Cole he's psyched to Billings Indian in he's billings is medicine man. And then now that Stan Stanley pretty paid moved to Billings these two there's there's a spiritual battle happening. Those of us who know we back off, right yeah. Get caught. Crossfire. No. Both fancy dancers. So and they were both he was a ballplayer. A lot of parallels there. Yeah. So besides Besides, my kid tries to walk by he
Shandin Pete:don't go around them close either will go away.
Aaron Brien:You get shine out boy and you go around them. I mean, this is a guy who named his son cactus because you don't want no one to touch him I do I do got to say some ago about walking. Well is probably our first guest, who's also a fan of the podcast. Oh, yeah. He's a loyal fan of the podcast and you back. Get a call last year on his way back from Oklahoma. Right. Yep.
Walter Runs Above:Trip to to Durant and back. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Brien:He listened to our podcasts the whole way down, or better. What was it?
Walter Runs Above:We got to was it? Episode 21. And I think we came back and I think we're on episode 40.
Aaron Brien:So I get a call. I'm at Denver University in the middle of like this neck pro meeting that I'm at. Like, I'm gonna answer it. So
Shandin Pete:I just use it anytime risky of you to answer. Well, you called me. You called
Aaron Brien:like the night before, then you called like, the next day or some? Yeah, I was like, I better answer this. Not knowing he's been driving, like all night or whatever. So it was awesome. It was kind of cool. Because you don't often hear from people who, like, listen to your podcasts or have comments. Yeah. constructive comments about your podcast. Yeah, that was cool. Oh,
Walter Runs Above:yeah. Yeah, there was a I think we were coming through Nebraska, just outside of Nebraska. Coming into Kansas was when I first called that first time. And then Aaron, call me back. When we were in Oklahoma. Just just outside of ADA, somewhere on there. And we were going through. We were in a tornado.
Aaron Brien:But she had me on speaker and you're talking. And Cassie was like, he was like, What was I saying? What was I saying that she would tell you like you're saying this? There's some and it was cool. It was like we had a little break down session. Well, you tried to call him didn't you? You tried to call Chandi Ashanti never
Walter Runs Above:answers.
Aaron Brien:progression. progression. Yeah, yes. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:We're on to the next thing.
Aaron Brien:But he referred to you as Walter.
Shandin Pete:Mr. Walter runs a book Yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah, thanks for that. Man. That was awesome. So many things that I didn't know. But fancy dance. And I could just appreciate the one comment you said about the singing, you know, you know how, you know when you dance. It's, there's just those songs, those one songs, just, you can't help it, you can't help it, you could just feel the need to want to dance to it. And there's some songs that sound good. But, you know, you've just got no interest in it. You're just not you don't feel it? And I see I see. Well, I don't know. I don't I shouldn't say I see a lot of that today. But I'm what I'm curious of, is really like this. And you talked about some very deep meaning of the songs and the connection to the past and the language that's in them that tells the stories and and I'm sure it goes way deeper than that. Do you see that a lot of that change today from the music you hear or is it just it has it evolved? But still has sort of the same feel?
Walter Runs Above:You know, you know, growing up in the era that I grew up in dancing, singing with the singers, you know, the you know, like, Eagle whistles, the Mandarin Badlands you know, porcupine you know, there's a lot of these the songs that they have, you know, a lot of these trick songs or you know, anything like that, you know, they it was really cool to dance to that. And I think like more modern modern day now. I can remember northern Cree when they first I think it was back in 2004 or somewhere around there. But I can remember they were they put out an album. And they paid homage to Eagle whistle singers. The necklace breaker style of song. Yeah. And they they mentioned that it was Leroy that made that song. And he talked about seen my dad and late uncle Merle Seymour, Wade, Uncle Wade, you know, that Bismarck, and he referred to this recording that was put out by Featherstone and that was the year that eagle whistles one United Tribes where he talked about these these particular songs. And so that's how he makes his trick songs are his, you know, his his tricky ones is northern Korea, that's how he makes them was, you know, keeping was keeping the necklace breaker and Eagle whistles in mind, you know. And so I remember that, and I remember showing my dad, you know, when he was alive, I remember showing him that CD. And inside that pamphlet, I had him. I had him read that. And, you know, he liked that he thought that was cool, you know, the way Leroy described them? Was that when it caught on unquote, you know, they, they were like gods, to me, that was kind of like, that was kind of like, in me, not really understanding, like the significance of that, you know, just the way they portrayed them as singers or the way they portrayed their singing ability. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, I always have, like, with Northern Cree, you know, they it's kind of like the same, the same set of the same style, the tune the four are the straight through and the stop at the end, you know, and so nowadays, you know, like, you go to you go to different powers, you know, go to different regions, regions, and, you know, there's a lot of these newer songs, and I guess this, you know, this newer generation, they like these newer songs where there's about, you know, hypothetically, there's, there's about 20 stops in one verse, you know, it's like, how can you dance to something like that, you know? Because, you know, the old cliche of, it's between the dancer and the drum, you know, that kind of a thing. Yeah. But when really, you know, that, that drum spirit, you know, like he, you if, you know, if you study up on your songs, and you study up on all these tricks, songs and whatnot, you know, you come to find out pretty quick that you like, what your style is, or what you prefer, you know, like, what you prefer to dance to? what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are. Yeah. So, modern day times you like Like, like, I tried to share some stuff with my son cactus and try to share with him seeing him songs and listen for this listen for that kind of a thing. You know, because now the junior man's fancy I mean, senior men's fancy, but because it seems like the older we're getting, it seems like the we're getting like the standby songs. Like, Oh, these are senior fancy, or these are old and new. Yeah. That's, that's the why as arena directed to you, because I'm not just a fancy dancer, but when I run to your arena, I always give our golden agers or the senior dancers I was given some rockin songs you know, it was wanted because I want them to feel that you know, to
Shandin Pete:give them the honor song. Yeah, I don't do that Death March.
Aaron Brien:We did that one time. I did that before. I know exactly what you mean. Like dude, I did it. I just assumed older old we should sing slower. Do it No, it was opposite. It's easier for them to dance to a fat like a high beat like kind of a constant. Yeah, you're just torturing them with the death march. This horse shit
Walter Runs Above:I remember this one time I was I was running in the arena at this power. And they there was these golden age women dancers there was traditional. There is a fancy Scholler there's a Jinglu you know and and they got a release slow song and that's the other thing too I try to baby up our golden ages and they're tiny tots like I'll try to get them done right away after grand entry you know so they can they can do whatever afterwards but anyways this golden age women category was dancing to a really slow song you know it was just the slow and of course you know the announcer everybody all rise please rise so everybody offering you know
Shandin Pete:for the next 10 minutes
Walter Runs Above:yeah holy smokes you know that really Olson then at the end there's the tail so we had to
Aaron Brien:another two minutes and we got to tell
Walter Runs Above:it so these women these women these old women were coming to the to get judged and I remember I was lining them up like that you know good dancing lady show your numbers you know I went to the side and that one lady she said Hey, give us a better song we're dead yet she said apart from that that time on to give everybody a rockin song you know something yeah yeah I'm tuning in enjoy and and and I think that's that's what when it comes to the dancing piece I think that's what's missing is our younger generation there's just so you know they tunnel vision by that money aspect of it rather than you know and I hear this quite a bit you know, I I dance for I dance for my elders I dance for the people that get dancing where I hear that you know yeah, when and I don't ever hear I dance for myself because I enjoy it you know no one ever hear that kind of an explanation and it's all it's always you know dance for those that that passed on you know that kind of thing and not saying that's bad that's good you know that's good. That's the way they were taught you know, but you're the one dancing you know like you're you're the one that's out there and one of the dishes like it
Shandin Pete:it should like yeah no, I don't like it I'm just dancing for all these other people
Walter Runs Above:out here. I got I got I got $5,000 beadwork on you know all these wicked black and whites on and and but yet they're sitting in the car while inner troubles are happening. But the AC
Shandin Pete:going yeah,
Aaron Brien:he's starting to sound like that guy now. Back in my day
Shandin Pete:to the MCS then I got something to say.
Aaron Brien:I'll defend this younger generation or you don't have to dance to the drums they have to the skin come from a different time where it's like, quality like quality thinking like I just thought of something. While it was saying I want to give everyone a rockin song. What if you're the next drum group? You're the next group. And here comes Walt say tell him the mic guy doing this to the announcer hear that joke? Like damn, well just he just slapped us we just got slapped we got skipped. He doesn't think we can single foot slide.
Shandin Pete:We can he's
Aaron Brien:probably right. He's probably right. That's the only thing I thought of that's where my mind went in your in your very sincere monologue. I went straight to Oh Damn, dude, that Jungle Scout passed again, again. We don't get second songs to them. We don't get second songs.
Walter Runs Above:can make it out of tiny. Oh Just kidding
Shandin Pete:that's a whole thing though. Right? Yeah, cuz you know, we're soft. While people were hard, brittle. Were soft and brittle. You know?
Aaron Brien:I can't take criticism. Well, you're right. I came into the game late like this the power of late I didn't come from it. It just was something I wanted to do. And it was fun and I but I learned right away from some good people. Partly I was raised by strict Add to so I knew how to get in trouble. Like I knew how to do it. But people were strict and you saying the wrong song, they would tell you like they would stop you even. Yeah, like you're singing, you're drunk, you're singing, they would come over and they cut you off. Like now they just everyone's got feelings and no one can take criticism. And it's like, yeah, I get that. We gotta we gotta support each other, but at the same time to like, if you're doing something wrong. You gotta be told it. Yeah. And if you can't take it, then you're in the wrong game, man. Yeah,
Shandin Pete:I remember needs to do that. And Rocky Boy, maybe elsewhere too. But if they kind of got a rugged song, they just tell the dancers to take the circle, you know? Let them finish their song. I remember that. Yeah, I always thought that was kind of rude. But then, you know, as I got older, I thought what kind of makes sense? You know? It, you know? It can be motivator? What? Yeah, it can be a motivator for that. That drum say okay, yeah, maybe we don't sound that great. Maybe we need to practice. Or it gives me a demotivator. And I say, well, it's just quit because I guess we're no good.
Aaron Brien:But if singing is something you take serious, yeah. Your your your pout, for sure. Because that's what we do. We guarantee you're gonna go and you're gonna learn the right stuff to sing. Yeah, the right moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, your limitations do man. Yes. People learn, you know? Yeah. And it wasn't
Shandin Pete:disrespectful. Furthermore, okay. But it was not disrespectful, you know, that nobody come over and just took your drum away, or, you know, told you guys you know, good, you know, made you stop singing it just circle circle up dancers and let the drum finish their song and then go to the next. I don't know. Yeah, as I get older, I get it.
Walter Runs Above:Sometimes you hear when you're dancing. You know, like, if you're, if you don't have a very good song or whatever, and you're, you're trying you're trying to dance and such, but sometimes you'll hear the announcer come over the PA saying, you know, so and so standby got so you know. So you're like, Oh, we're getting another song. So? Yeah, it's gonna slow down.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, yeah, save your energy a bit. Yeah,
Aaron Brien:I've been. I've been at Powerwalls where I've seen dancers make a drum group look good. Yeah, they make it my God, that junk group didn't do them guys. any favors, man.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, I'll say with you one of my favorite, one of my favorite experiences. We were in Bozeman power couple of years ago. And you know, as a dancer, you know, like you you can kind of pick up on the the rotation going on the drum circle going, right? You know, you're going to pick or you know, who you're going to get and all that, you know, well, I'm every I think the boys were host drum that year. And they were getting every second song. And then they were going to every first song they were going around the drum wheel. Right? Well I remember one of the another older fancy dancer, you know, he's, he's well known around from Wyoming. He's well known from, you know, around Powell country. But anyways, um, we're sitting here getting ready, you know, getting stretched out, you know, going through all these different things and, and the fancy matches just kind of come together, like, Who do you think we can get for first song, you know, and it was, it was right at the beginning of the drum rotation again, you know, going around the wheel. And pretty soon, you know, they were they were saying, I think we're gonna get this drum group. I think we're gonna get this drum group. And we walk out there. Alright, men's fancy coming out to come on out to the arena that you know, we get invited out to get out there. And I kid you not. It was Louie. Louie walks over eggs. And a well known singer. Lead singer, you know, he does a lot of Elvis impersonations, you know, he, he knows a lot of the old 49 songs, you know, and all he had was his hand drum. And the announcer said, you know, you want to Louis you want to take this song for the men's fancy. And in my mind, soon as I heard them invite him to sing for men's fan, this is during finals of the power this is, you know, this is the finals. As soon as I heard them invite that my mind went right back to the original Nighthawks singers. That all fancy that song that they used to sing And I was mad. I hope they I hope they sing that I hope he sings that song. I hope he kept saying that, because it was a fun song to dance to. So here, he says, Yes, you know, he shakes his head Yes, like that. And he gets his hand drum boom, and then they put it to them, they put a mic on his handle, and then they put a mic on him. He was the only singer. And he was sitting there, right, right by the boys. He was sitting there. And he hit his drum, like that. And he starts singing that song. And he started singing that song, and I was thinking about him. And I was like, Whoa, I was happening. I was blown away, because this dude, he led, and he second him himself. And he's, for four stars. He did that for stars. And his beat was perfect, perfect northern fancy song. And I was loving it. When we got our second song, you know, from the boys and such, and between the two, you know, in my opinion, it was like, that was a real song. You know, that was the real deal kind of a thing that was, you know, from, from what I grew up dancing to. And so I really appreciated that. And I went up to him afterwards, and I gave him I gave him some money. And as a man, I was just blown away. He's like, man, thank you for singing that song. You know, that was awesome. You know, and I think I gave him like 50 bucks. I think I had in my wallet at that time, but But I enjoyed it, you know? And it was kind of crazy after we were after we were lined up. There was everybody was hollering for one more. One more, one more. Verse, we got one more, we always get one more. But after we were all done dancing anywhere. You know, a lot of the dancers that were out there, they were complaining about that first song I was like, that's, that's your neighborhood. Like, count your Count your many blessings because that's, you know, your heart. Maybe hopefully you will dance to that kind of song again, you know? Yeah. That was I really appreciated that. So yeah, that's, that's kind of off.
Aaron Brien:From a Hall of Famer. Yep. Yeah. Who is a Hall of Famer man, like us there. He's on the wall. Yeah.
Walter Runs Above:And that was that was probably out of all the years. I've been dancing in Bozeman. That's my favorite song, every dance to you know, going dancing in that pot. You know?
Shandin Pete:Pretty good. And Louis,
Aaron Brien:for those that don't know, also claims to have a close relationship with Coach Bobby Knight.
Walter Runs Above:Oh, yeah, I heard that too. Yeah. Yeah. And
Aaron Brien:I think he's that one time. It was true. Like I think he really did kind of have a friendship with Coach Bobby Knight. Like you would end up there in Indiana. Hoosiers game it's just so random. Like it's real random plays that you can play the harmonica he can play the guitar he can He sounds just like Elvis like you know. Hey, for people who don't know that remember that? Oh, documentary? The hand game documentary? Yeah. When they go to crow he's the guy singing he's the guy they follow around he's wearing the crow guys wearing like the basketball jerseys and stuff. Oh yeah. YouTube it just crow head game so documentary comes up. You see him you'll see him yeah, he's the guy even plays music on
Shandin Pete:there wearing a bulls jersey or his dad
Aaron Brien:is one of the most respected singers ever. Who walks over to Cedric walks ons. Mountain Ciao. Hum. Naga is what they call him or thumbnail. Yeah, but Nighthawk singers was way back way back.
Shandin Pete:Man pretty cool. Well, this was a lot, man. This is a lot. This is a two hours worth of material here. Man, that's gonna be sweet. So two packs of smokes. Give you two vapes. Do vapes
Aaron Brien:now remember, last time we saw Walt on the screen with us for tribal research specialist. Yeah. It was it was him and his wife and in. We were teasing him about his Spaghetti. Spaghetti was it like a pot of something on the stove?
Shandin Pete:In the background,
Aaron Brien:Indians Indians, wrestlers only cook spaghetti. Pork chops, hamburgers are breakfast for dinner
Shandin Pete:tacos, tacos Oh yeah, gotta get the tacos in there. Yeah, anything that you have to boil
Aaron Brien:boil Kansas short rate of whatever this game is spaghetti night is getting
Shandin Pete:going in doing it you could see it picking up the spaghetti
Aaron Brien:hand on her hip she had her hand on crappy
Shandin Pete:yeah that, you know just don't go in there the living room or something.
Aaron Brien:Just the way they set posit slam stuff.
Shandin Pete:I know.
Aaron Brien:Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, I have to tell her we said hi.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah. Yeah. So you'll probably see she she works this she works from home. This is her workstation right here. And so she's always listening to the podcast, you know, and
Shandin Pete:nice. Nice, awesome. Good deal. Oh, man. We ought to have her on next or some point and get another good conversation going on. But yeah, you know, there's a lot here to think about. I think there's man so much, man. My mind is blown on how little I knew of the fancy dance, you know, you know, a little bit grown up, but if you don't do it, if you're not immersed in the right way, with the right people. Yeah, you only get bits, pieces of information, but I think some of the motion from
Aaron Brien:our time. You just don't punch a Brady. That's that song.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Memorializing. Yeah, that's all we know. But thanks for that, man. That's good. And I think like you said, the take home message there is you know, you can't just jump into something. What was how did you say you can't just jump in without knowing what's in there? I can't remember.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, just don't just jump into the pool without knowing how hard it is how cold it is that how deep it is. Or what you know. Yeah.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. That's good advice for anything. Any young young man young woman trying to get into back into dancing or you know, or even into it already. Now. Some to reflect on the way you the way you do your things is. It'll help us all out to to advance what we're doing. You know,
Aaron Brien:your fancy dancer go to punk. The jingle Just Dancer. Go to the Great Lakes. Yeah. Chicken Dance go to stand up. Yeah. Yeah, I guess we should probably put standoff. We could settle on stand.
Shandin Pete:You can start a fight, man. Yeah, that's unsettled. That's unsettled business. unsettled.
Aaron Brien:Oh, yeah. No, you Okay, round Busto. If you're Rambis. You gotta go to hardly no no open it was Oh, no.
Shandin Pete:Yeah, there you go. Yeah. No, not No, not even well open it. You gotta go to lab.
Aaron Brien:Did you say that way? Lap
Shandin Pete:way? No, I don't know. Oh, that's unsettled business not and just. Thanks. Thanks, partner.
Aaron Brien:I tried to start fights back not
Shandin Pete:too late. The fight is on. Now. I don't know you there. I don't know. But none of these things. I just talked about him. But thanks, partner. We'll be back in touch man. I got I have a bad list of 20 questions. I wanted to ask you based on what you said. So we'll follow up, man. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
Aaron Brien:for the record. We always say we're gonna follow up with people who've never done it.
Shandin Pete:Yeah. Yeah, just note that okay. You'll never appear on another episode. That's the kind of courtesy to say that. You bang your breath. No, seriously though. This is a good one. Good one likes taken our partner. Thanks again. And we'll see you soon.
Walter Runs Above:Yeah, thanks for having me on fellas. It's a good thing you guys are doing with this tribal research project, the podcast it's it's beneficial for a lot Have people you know, both native and non native have both in in the trench trenches and out of the trenches, you know, that's really good information you know, so I, I appreciate what you guys do and you know keep keep it going, keep rockin and rollin
Shandin Pete:okay thank you for tuning in to this episode. I'm going to take a second here to recognize some of our sponsors, in particular, Travis Davis. Thank you Travis Davis for pitching in and continuing to help the show. Also Louella Bryn, big thank you big thank you for continuing to support the work that we do. In addition, Dylan shields, thank you. Thank you. And then our other sponsors. We've have Ryan Swanson, Jacob Knutson, Julian Peterson, Jason Freon, Heather subretinal. Emma Lafave. Amber, weasel head, Rachel holster, and Mars Xena, J Thank you to all of our sponsors, for helping us to stay on the air and continuing to support the work we do.