#34 - “10% Cree Fee”: The influence of Nêhiyawak singing across Indian Country with Guest Aaron Tootoosis

In this episode, the TRS team chats with Aaron Tootoosis (Nêhiyawak) from the Poundmaker Indian Reserve in Treaty 6 Territory. University and traditionally educated, he shares his expertise on current Indigenous issues through speaking engagements throughout Saskatchewan and through his involvement with boards and committees. His ceremonial grounding guides him in how he communicates and builds relationships with people. A father of three, he makes is home on the Standing Buffalo Dakota Nation in Treaty 4 Territory with his wife of 22 years.

Aaron Tootoosis gives a history of the resurgence of Cree round dance. The TRS team also discuss the influence of Cree style singing among surrounding tribes. The conversation investigates some of the norms of singing and changes that have been witnessed in recent years. The discussion also shifts to the history of Chief Big B ear and SweetGrass and their connection to the Crow Nation. 

Also listen to the end to hear Aaron's "Top Three" round dance albums of all times!

Aaron is currently employed as the Indigenous Students' Centre Coordinator/Instructor at Saskatchewan Polytechnic Regina Campus.

Learn more about Aaron Tootoosis:
http://www.otc.ca/book_a_speaker/details/aaron_tootoosis.html
https://saskpolytech.ca/student-services/support/indigenous/contact-us.aspx

Check out The Gunz of Poundmaker on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/oD5FR

Learn more about Poundmaker Indian Reserve in Treaty 6 Territory.
http://www.poundmakercn.ca/

Listen to Saskatchewan Indigenous Cultural Centre recording
https://soundcloud.com/saskatchewanindigenousculturalcentre

Guest: Aaron Tootoosis (Nêhiyawak)
Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Website: www.tribalresearchspecialist.com

Transcript

Unknown: 0:01

They see now Maggie Why don't you guys come I came my sky calm ie me no magic to me keep my mind up Hey

Shandin Pete: 0:37

Hello and welcome to tribal research specialist the podcast where we will be talking about important things Hello and welcome to tribal research specialist the podcast a podcast dedicated to chatting about Hello and welcome to

Unknown: 1:07

nature Miko heating Hey, hey, hey now Margie guaca guy comma Amy on K mama unique, calm

Shandin Pete: 1:26

right? Yeah, that was, um, that was a guy named Pete Charlie. And he lived on flathead Rez there and how it was recorded in 1950 or so. And he was Cree. And I don't know a whole lot about him. He's probably pretty old at that time. But that song was always thought was pretty, pretty neat, because you can hear he's singing in Korean, it's a hand game song. I always wondered what he was saying in that in that song, but I never I never sent it out to anyone to transcribe and apologize topologist that transcribed and non native to transcribe it for us. Um, but another interesting thing about that, too, was, um, there was a number of countries that were living there in western Montana with the, with the flat heads for a while and inter married for a number of years. And I came across this article at one point in time at at what was called the SFC at that time, I guess there was, what is the SI FCS that, does that stand for Aaron?

Aaron Tootoosis: 2:45

The SFC it was it's the former name of the First Nations University of Canada. The it the former name SFC is a Saskatchewan Indian federated college. So that's yeah,

Shandin Pete: 3:00

I came across this article from from that college, it must have been a newsletter. I don't know what it was, but and they're interviewing a guy from up that way. And he explained in this article that the hand game came to them from us from the flat heads. That was his interpretation. And I thought it's pretty neat I guess from from those times. But one of the one of the other things that kind of came to us more recently and even exploded across the board. Aaron, what did you trip out about last time? What Turtle Island Turtle Island? Yeah. Oh, yeah. went off on Turtle Island. And I was gonna I was gonna throw in a stereotype. I'm gonna reference to Turtle Island. Anyway, going on. Okay, so what exploded back in? I don't know. I think I first started hearing the Kree round dance in about 1989 or 1990. My husband boy. Yeah, I don't think I didn't hear Red Bull first. You know what I heard first was uh oh, I can't even remember songs a little bear hills. No, it was before this even

Aaron Brien: 4:16

Holy smokes. How old are you?

Shandin Pete: 4:20

Well, I don't know if I get it. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I was there one night. Did I delete it? No, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't know. But I

Aaron Brien: 4:31

got you in art mucem In sat down together. And he showed you

Shandin Pete: 4:40

know, I just barely heard that. And what was remarkable was the beat you know, that unique buzzing sound and I never heard that before, prior to about 1990. And I thought it was really odd. It sounded very strange to me. And I wanted to know more about it, but then soon after that, it kind of exploded across the across the nation, you know? And it became a really popular form of singing everybody learned how to do the beat and everybody started composing songs and all this stuff. And I was pretty curious about its origin because there's some debate about it currently about whether you know the old debate well it's not our way this is not our way we know nothing about it. That's going on our I guess it's always going on. And maybe I'm our good friend here today. Aaron to toussis can clarify some things up for us about that.

Aaron Brien: 5:42

Shed some light shed the light bring the light now

Shandin Pete: 5:51

over in the shade take that blanket curtain off window

Aaron Brien: 5:56

could you possibly shed some light

Aaron Tootoosis: 6:01

to dark?

Shandin Pete: 6:03

Even in the winter? Wow.

Aaron Tootoosis: 6:09

Yeah, yeah, they their own dance. It's it is a really popular thing. And it has been around for a long time mates and are up here where I'm from and what you know, location wise, we might call it Saskatchewan. Or you know and in Saskatchewan is in a bunch where we call treaty territory. Treaty for territory treaty six territory. It's really the the country of the plains Cree, the Soto and the Nakota. Peoples. Historically, we go back and it's through these three nation, the three nations Alliance, we were known historically as the iron Alliance. It's how we became we we used to be woodland people. But then we eventually evolved into plains people through the through this alliance, and also in making treaties with other nations such as the Blackfoot. Yeah, there were battles that were fought, right. But we, we managed to get along though and make these agreements to maintain peace. So yeah. But in that process, though, like, you know, acquiring ceremonies, sharing ceremonies, trading ceremonies, purchasing ceremonies was a thing back then, like how we acquired even games, like, like the hand game, right, from, from one tribe to another. And the process was similar to treaties, but treaties, we literally in our language, it's it's a secret exchange. It wasn't it's not it doesn't mean treaty, but yet it's based on secret principles in our namely, that the presentation of a pipe stem, and these are these pipe stems are highly decorated items that a lot of planes, peoples and all nations, I guess, had one of these at one time, and utilize them in order to to symbolize that. They're, they're going to be exchanging stuff here. And they weren't here to come in battle anybody or anything like that. They're coming to make a deal. Right. And so, yeah. So the, the round ends, was it something that we that was that was performed, not performed, or once they performed? It was a ceremony that was done after, after our version of the Sundance? Oh, every, every, you know, end of May to the end of June. Right until the beginning of August is usually our Sundance season up in our areas. Yeah. And, you know, after the Sundance delays, there's other ceremonies that are performed. One you know, the in particular a lot of people are would be familiar with today is the horse stance. But there was a series of other ceremonies that took place after like, they call it that chicken dance today. Yeah, but back then it was it was known as a Thunderbird dance goes down. Yeah, and then around dance. So round dance was was a really holy ceremony where the people would would set up a set on would have a family bundle that would be placed on a tripod in you know, the they would have a feast and they call upon the ancestors that are passed on and invite them to come in dance with the with the family. leaves and friends and family that are still here in this world. Right? Yeah. So then the purpose of that was that, you know, the sponsors or the people or the family that are putting up their own and switch would dance through the whole thing. And this would be in a daytime. Okay, a lot of people have it mixed up today that romances only only occur at nighttime and, and only in the winter time. But that's not the case, right to

Shandin Pete: 10:28

Oh, history. But anytime can be done anytime.

Aaron Tootoosis: 10:35

But it evolved, it evolved on its own to grapes like the, like from 18 Oh, boy, 1895 1895 to 1951. The Canadian government, even though we have treaty agreements, they, they they have never honored any of those treaties, rights, and instead chose to implement policy and how they dealt with Indians up here. Yeah, so in that process in 1895, and that was the policy and the ever changing, amended policy called the Indian Act. They, they, they made our ceremonies and dances illegal. So we're unable to practice things that made us healthier ate, yeah, and, you know, like our dances or songs. And later on, they even even came after our clothing where we weren't even allowed to dress how he want and a lot of these policy amendments or these Indian Act Amendments, they were, they had the full support of police to enforce them. So we were literally held at gunpoint to stop, you know, practicing our ways, and it was always jail. And a lot of people went to jail just for practicing, just for singing even at like, these things like that. So for a long time, or people were basically by by the policy, you know, forced to transition into a way of farming. Yeah, and on the weekends, when when there's nothing to do or people fell into alcoholism. And as a way of you no party on the weekend to work work the fields during the week, right. Yeah, and that's how things turned out. There's nothing else to do, because we couldn't do anything culturally. Right. All the all those years, right. And it was just drinking that became the pastime. And you know, they probably wanted it that way. Right? So they wanted our book to fall into that so so that 1951 came in they amended the Indian Act again and they they took the they abolish that part where it means ceremonies illegal where now we could practice them again. Yeah. So our people and in our area and little pine poundmaker Sweet Grass. This is where the romance originated out of out of meetings that that society members had around the in that area in the area there that they wanted to revive our societies. But they wanted to offer people something to do that's kind of not really like in a spiritual or ceremonial sense but yeah, but in a social sense to in order to bring introduce something to curb people from drinking on weekends. So they introduced their own dance then and you know, they they did it on only on weekends and at nights great and they wanted to keep people are long as they could so they would go all night you know from evening and they tried to get done before the sun came up. Ah so but they they are attained a lot of ceremonial components, those, like the feast that occurs before. Yeah, our family. The practice was that you know, you have a feast on a Wednesday, if you're gonna have it on a Friday or have it on a Thursday if you're going to have it on Saturday. It's just staggering the the ceremonies, they that you know, you're not putting so much stress on the families. They're to have a feast all in one day and then a round dance, you know at night. Oh, yeah. So that's how they do it back home. And again, they're they're they're calling on our ancestors still coming back. And we feed them first. And we invite them to dance. Yeah, and the family. You know, they need to make an effort to to dance all night creativity. have just pick and choose what songs you want to dance to exit suck it up that way, it's you have to honor that, that pledge that was mean basically write that. Yeah, you know whether you said it or not, that's the purpose of it right. So the you so that round dances that's that's how it's been set up for, you know as a way to curb people from drinking and, but they're the ceremonial components of it, you know there there's a giveaway that takes place shapes people are fed to at midnight lunch. And then they have a giveaway, a travel giveaway there, you know, before everybody gets too tired, you know, a good user on a good time when people can still hang around, and you know, where it'd be okay, if they left after eight. So growing up, it would be like around two o'clock in the morning. And then there's other other component like other other things that were added in over the years, they put the call away by way, where pi away is that like shaking of a tail dance. And it's done with like, usually the locals, men and women will, you know, they'll they'll, they'll put aside, you know, $5 or $10 or $20 Bill and then they'll they'll, they'll come into the dance into the introductory song that the singer sing. And then that's the the selecting song though. They're hunting for for a partner and not not not a partner, which will lead to you know, romance or even jealousy, right? If somebody is worried, or has been got picked trade, it's yeah, it's a social dance that that our people have always practiced and whether you're young or whether you're old, you get picked. And then there's there's three other dances that follow three other songs. And then it's just a couples dance. So it kind of similar to what people would see an old dance or couples dance together or comany Yes, it's kind of similar but it's COVID byli and there's a set number of songs for songs for it. Then after the last song there the last dance there that's when the local the local will give the will skip the five bucks or the clean bucks and one time I got 50 bucks. I was young I never I never used to go singing you don't get get picked to sing and stuff wherever you get the money. But I hope I get picked in with Bailey all the time. Yes.

Shandin Pete: 17:51

Does that generally Canadian or American dollars? Canadian? Yeah, of course.

Aaron Brien: 17:58

Why would it be good to be in America?

Shandin Pete: 18:01

I don't know. You know, I seen this. I seen this once in in Rocky Boy. That what you're talking about? And I didn't quite get what was going on? I mean, you know, it's not like you don't get it? Yeah, you wonder you Oh, know what that's about. Now. I know.

Aaron Tootoosis: 18:15

That's one place they'll get American money for sure.

Aaron Brien: 18:22

Shawn Dean that's very ethnocentric of you

Shandin Pete: 18:26

know, we don't have no heroes. Indians have no boundaries. Oh, do you want to draw

Aaron Brien: 18:35

legal boundaries? I actually challenge them in Supreme Court last All right.

Aaron Tootoosis: 18:44

We stopped ceremonies long time ago that it was like a thing where where somebody that's that's just hooking up I guess like, you know, as a couple. Oh, the the community would kind of get together and then the men would capture the wife. And then they they'd all have a dance. Yeah. Yeah. And a guy would have to watch all the all the males dance with his wife Faye like oh, by the way, but what that did was Kerber jealousy,

Shandin Pete: 19:19

right. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Tootoosis: 19:21

So nowadays it's it's pretty bad, right? Like Jealousy is a really bad thing.

Shandin Pete: 19:28

It is. Aaron just made me jealous a second ago. As the bad booted him from that,

Aaron Brien: 19:35

I tend to do that.

Shandin Pete: 19:38

have that effect on people

Aaron Brien: 19:39

know what to do something similar with the push dance? Is it is it similar? You're not well, not similar. We're talking about jealousy for a second. Oh, okay. Okay. But it's for that reason are Yeah, they're not allowed to dance with their wife. Oh, huh. And they would always tell us like, well, if you dance with Your wife, then you're only dance with your wife. And then that takes the whole social element out of the dance. So now if push dances, which is kind of our version of the round dance, you know, a couples dance all night kind of thing. Yes, you can dance with your wife.

Shandin Pete: 20:17

So that's pretty familiar theme, right? where something was taken to the evening time. And then because of the policies of government policies, and then that, that myth, that myth gets passed forward to future generations that oh, this was only done at night. This is yeah, this is only done in you know, this set period of time. When in reality, it was our way

Aaron Brien: 20:47

out, like, way out in the middle, like way away from town. Yeah, we've adopted that. Like, well, that's where they have them when. Yeah, you hear a lot of older folks talk about their grandparents would talk about doing things in like, right where they lived, you know, that would do it here.

Shandin Pete: 21:03

Yeah, yeah. And their, their shed behind the house or Yeah, right. And Telenor

Aaron Tootoosis: 21:11

tours to Sundance was, was forced to go underground, because people still believed in it. Right. And, yeah, it needed to keep the Indian agents away from from finding out where these dances were being held. So they took off they, they put the drums away. And they introduced a just a raw height. They throw raw height in the center of the dancers, or the singers I mean, before the before they start singing it at Sundance is even still today. But long ago that that was never there. But when they put the drums away, they introduced this rawhide and with sticks that that we hit. You couldn't hear the act for miles. Yeah. But you'd still be able to create a beat on an animal skin, then. Yeah. And also whistles, I guess. So long time ago, they took away the usual bone whistles to so that the other wouldn't be heard. But how people adapted was by dancing with a just Aspen leaf in their mouth. Oh, really? This is the information that I gathered over the years how you'd like. Yeah, so now after when I when they were hanging out after that 1951 There they they brought back the drums but they kept the height in the middle though. You'll still see that at Sundance is there and that's that's how they went underground. And I always wondered you know, because even though you can have them way out in the middle of nowhere you know those you can hear those drums even still today like you know, from a mile away.

Shandin Pete: 22:54

Yeah, yeah. Especially in that flat land. Mm, long waist that sounds like the what we call today the canvas dance they used to they used to just beat on a hide you know everybody grab an edge you know what that was more for? I don't know what maybe it has some tied to that but that's what they'd send send the warriors out to battle with it. Sing they're called into sin kaka that sing those songs to send their warriors back or out to battle or out the raid or something. But this isn't probably this was like, mid 818 50s or so. So maybe not maybe not connected to that.

Aaron Brien: 23:38

Well, yeah, I would say you guys but you people you're probably about 2025 years ahead in your oppression than a lot of tribes in the Rockies. Alright. Yeah. Because of the church that said the church is President President so early.

Shandin Pete: 24:05

That's right in it that's right.

Aaron Brien: 24:07

So so you may not have government policy dictating and tell everybody else did but you definitely had church policy and norms determining how you guys acted you people what is the I don't live over there anymore. So I don't have to worry about don't worry about giving.

Shandin Pete: 24:35

What is that? What is the story or is there even a story behind that beat? You know, that triple beat on that drum? Because that's pretty unique.

Aaron Tootoosis: 24:45

Yeah, yeah. It's just people never never really understood it until science advanced date and they actually listened to the actual rhythm of it. Heart and it does have a have a dragon. They're like another another sound. And yeah, and that sounds actually electricity.

Shandin Pete: 25:14

Oh, really? flowing through the heart. Yeah. In the heart. Yeah.

Aaron Tootoosis: 25:18

So yeah, my big 18 inch. Okay. He Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, sounds the way of the hitting this, this drum is you, you make, like you can you can make these two beats like that to make a heartbeat pay like one beat is harder than the other. But in between those beats, you're now dragging your fingers, you're pressing your finger the fingernails of your two longest fingers. And, you know, and then you're Yeah, I used to. That's how I was taught when I was younger. Some people might use one they might use their middle finger but you know, I don't think people want to really give the jump in the middle finger

Aaron Brien: 26:10

well I do pretty regular

Shandin Pete: 26:15

so so that's

Aaron Tootoosis: 26:26

creating a little jig or a little yeah and then that tear your body follows through with that rhythm hate and and then and then your your songs even with that follow through. How do you how do you match your your voice to the to this drum is is to that little Drake sound? So like, I like that, yeah you're your it's a different, all together a different way of singing aid. And yeah, a lot, a lot of the rules of rounded singing were, were kept to right. And were brought into this new modernized way of ground and said nights and weekends. And one of the things that they're the old guys were really strict of was the introduction of English into into songs. Yeah. And also also the words and really, they're the, like, a lot of the songs to be, would be offensive to a lot of the people that aren't here anymore. Right? Especially in terms of romance, right? They they never the intent was never further round ends to be a point of romance for people, right to introduce that or bring that into the the circle. Yeah. But you know, a lot of songs are all about romance, right? And yeah, where they differ from what songs used to be about to vote, you know, talking about spirits talking about power and talking about, you know, our people and, you know, the, the magic that we had, right, the terms of power, and and all that, but, you know, you know, you don't nearly hear that anymore. It's all replaced by romance and yeah, hooking up and all that. They would, they would say, you know, if if you don't use Cree song Cree words in a song, then just sing it straight. Because a lot of people don't appreciate even a straight song today. And even though what that means, right, because the songs are language of their own. And I really, I really had a dip talk the other day with, you know, one of my mentors that's well known out there in power world and the world of singing who, who told me that, you know, that all these songs, and he had a story about it that, you know, every one of these songs has spirit. And, you know, and there's some of us that are gifted to be able to hear that language, and then interpret it to the world through by singing it right. And that's, it's up to us to bring those those spirits to life. Right. We're, we're the, we're kind of that conduit. Yeah, you're in between the worlds because nobody can explain where that where those songs come from the they come from somewhere else. Yeah, and it's, you know, some of us can are blessed to just be like an antenna, right? And then all of a sudden,

Shandin Pete: 29:57

boom, yeah. Yeah, you

Aaron Tootoosis: 29:58

know where, where you will To see it like that, right and, yeah. And but, you know, and in the process of admitting that we're not to be stingy or greedy was that you're correct. We we have to share. And, you know, if we don't utilize the songs, then, you know, maybe that that gift will will leave us. Right. So, yeah. Do everything that we can to, to keep that. Keep that going. Yeah. Because it's, it's it's very important and the other there's, there's got to be a reason for it. Right. Let's just like color. Sorry. Oh, no, keep going, man. Yeah, it's just like, our own our deaths, though. Right. Like, yeah, you know, we're looking at our languages dying out, we're looking at our ceremonies dying out because of that. We're looking at everything disappearing. And it was, it was, it was prophesized that this would happen. Right? The thing is, is that we will never ever lose. Our dreamers will never ever lose the ones that that will be able to bring these back through drinking straight through asking through prayer. You know, are you for something you'll get it? Yeah, you ask? Maybe you don't know even know how to pick a medicine or something. And you don't even pray you ask? Hey, I want to, I want to learn how to pick sweet grass. I don't have anybody in my family, I'm pitiful. Then all of a sudden, you know, things just happen. And all of a sudden, you're, you know, breeding 70 breeds of sweet grass, you know, in a day

Shandin Pete: 31:48

sell him on Facebook. No, no, no. Yeah. No, I know what you're talking about. And we talked about this previously, about, like, the composition of songs versus the versus songs that are not composed you know, like the ones you say, when you talk about your like antenna, you know, you don't you don't intentionally make or compose a song to sound a certain way. onto it. Conduit you're you're it it conduces you toward cola coalesce coalesce I use this word coalesce once long ago and Aaron just one

Aaron Brien: 32:34

morning once it was about coalesce on it's about four Dom's Come on.

Shandin Pete: 32:43

I'll go by I don't think so. I think so. I'll go back over that. But okay, so this is the deal, this deal. The power of the song, then, I'm curious about in your guys's way up there, you know, the composed song versus the, the con, the conduit of setback arrives the song that arrives via a conduit? Is there a difference? And yeah, I mean, obviously, there is, but I mean, what, how was it? How was it? I guess managed in your guyses way. Because a lot of people compose songs these days, they just do you know, I think

Aaron Tootoosis: 33:26

they do. You know, you get a you get a set number of lyrics, like, you know, put them together and then and then you follow it through with, you know, just just singing right? Or, you know, singing, singing a tune to match the words and yeah, or you can do either, right thinking you can have like, you know, a straight part set out and then and then you could match words to it, and, you know, make a lead for it. Right. Like, yeah, I I've done some of that before. Yeah. And then some people are, you know, even even dream of songs to write like, yeah, you know, the words and everything. Yeah, and, you know, whether they're in English or whether in in our own languages, right, so, but up up in our, up here in the north there, you know, particularly Minister Quinn, Saskatchewan, and I was listening to Clinton, she flashed surely had that round dance, that virtual thing there for Miskito for affiliation. And what I, what stuck with me was when he he told people that, you know, he introduced the songs that he did, to make our culture cool to make our culture appealing to our young ones to get so that they'll hopefully they'll get involved. Because it's it's cool. Right? And I never thought about it that way until he said it that You know that hey, you know, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have been that romances today. Really? Yeah. Because he made it cool. You know, there was a bunch of us teenagers, like 1314 15 year olds that that just fell into the music then of what he was bringing into that circle. Yeah. And also our Muslim and to the two of them went all over the place to and then then he had Ed running around from water in Lake. And, you know, that all the three of them may have made all these wicked songs that made around next is cool, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, drew us in as, as young young ones. And, you know, now we're, we're the ones that are kind of, I guess, you know, looking to be in the place that they were when we were young, right, so

Shandin Pete: 36:05

what was your gonna say, Aaron, you know, he, he said, Oh,

Aaron Brien: 36:08

I was, I was concurring, I started singing because of a little island creep tape. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I remember, I remember the first song, like the very first song I heard. And I was, like, addicted to it. What's that one? Everybody knows.

Shandin Pete: 36:32

Yeah, not that. No, I think that holds a lot of truth. You know, what you're saying? And, you know, I think about that oftentimes, and think, Well, you know, there's a lot of things going on with our, our, our respective tribes loss of certain things. And I always think, well, how can you make it cool to the kids, because that's really how I think and it really is inspired by this whole round dance explosion, you know, how you can go to even go to any, any tribe, any reserve. And, you know, there's a group of kids that are singing crea round dance style of singing,

Aaron Brien: 37:11

they walk around with hand, drums

Shandin Pete: 37:12

and back. Yeah. And they probably know about six or 10 key words, or at least they think they do. You know?

Aaron Brien: 37:21

Well, I think I cool. I think the difference though, between, I think, our generation I guess, and like newer kids is, so we use that Cree style around dance as a springboard to like maybe our own thing, or to maybe inspire us to know what we are to acknowledge what we already knew. Maybe it just seems like now, though, that I'm meeting I still meet people who are, should be starting those steps into like, Hey, man, I love Cristela singing, but I'm doing my tribal thing now. I meet more and more people who aren't doing that they just stay in that lane. And I would think I'm curious to ask Aaron this. Is there some times where you listen to people saying or something and you think it's almost like a form of appropriation? Because there's some pretty i I'm real judgmental when it comes to singing. And I'm not, I am kind of judgy and I'm real picky about people. The way the style of music I like and yeah, but I think it's good singing. Yeah. And even like the people I look up to in the in round dance singing, we're like Arden mucem and and Clayton cheap and Gordon McGilvery. And those kind of guys. So when I listen to like people in stairwells all day, like just like, This is crazy. I know someone's gonna get mad, but we actually had a podcast where I trashed Rubin skirts for an hour, but no one's

Shandin Pete: 39:09

your face. No one said no.

Aaron Brien: 39:11

No one said anything to my face, which is fine. So I'm curious. Aaron, do you think there's a threshold? Because like, I know, for the Crow people, we have ceremonies that don't belong to us, but they were purchased. Right? Like you're saying, and and when you talk to the tribe from those people. They don't see anything wrong with that because it was done. It was done appropriately. Right. I can honestly say that I've been a part of round dances and quotes that we never were taught how to put these things on or had. So is there do you think there is a level to it? Seems like at some point, you have to go to round dance Mecca to do it right? Or something like that. I don't know what that would be. I'm just curious,

Shandin Pete: 39:57

round school.

Aaron Tootoosis: 39:58

You'd have to at least One time in your life come to poundmaker

Shandin Pete: 40:04

get beat up at poundmaker Gotta get jumped.

Aaron Tootoosis: 40:09

No, but I know what you mean like, like on extreme end rate of cultural appropriation like you see in the news lately like, and if anybody has been on my Facebook or it's been all around Facebook where people are sharing this this video of these, these white guys at a protest in Ottawa, you know hitting on a hand hand drums and seeing yabba dabba doo. Yeah, whatever it is write a song though. Nobody. Nobody ever posted though that right like that correlation name. Somebody made a song around Dan song. I can place it too, right. Like, with the with those lyrics in there. Yeah. But like Fred Flintstone? Thinking like, that person's gonna regret making that song.

Aaron Brien: 40:59

Yeah, I don't want to yell. Yabba dabba doo.

Shandin Pete: 41:03

There was that did that somebody did that? I think

Aaron Brien: 41:06

it was. Lodge. No, there's

Aaron Tootoosis: 41:08

a dog there. Yeah. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 41:11

It was Eugene Cardinal had a yabba dabba doo song. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. But okay. Yeah. So back to your question.

Aaron Brien: 41:20

I want to get to the hard hitting stuff here, man. The appropriation.

Aaron Tootoosis: 41:25

But yes, but that's the thing, right? Like, like, round dance? Yes, they exploded. Right. And, yeah, and they are, you know, everybody's basically coming to a point where, hey, I want to have your own dance studio, right? Yeah. Yeah, actually go on YouTube and say this is what they did. Or, you know, inbox somebody, how do we do? How do we go about your own ends? Right. And yeah, we didn't even do that. No more. No more tobacco or no, no more pipestem no more of these sacred exchanges, right, though? Yeah, where people had your item. It's kind of like, you know, to me, that would be like, you know, even worse than cultural appropriation at like, cultural appropriation, all it really is a real recent thing to write to became a real heated topic in 2017, at the UN level, and 87 countries came together and wanted to meet one or the other UN countries to make this a crime in their country. Right. That, that, you know, they wanted cultural appropriation to be a criminal offense. Yeah, just for the protection of indigenous cultures. And indigenous economies. Right. So. But, you know, today we, we take this and, but the truth of it, though, is that, you know, because it was we shared this with other nations up here. It became, like, I guess, who can really claim ownership over a trade Uber's who's the authority over it? We can say that, you know, those people don't have the rights to do it that way, or this way. Interesting. So, you know, not like, long ago, like everybody respected and knew where even a song came from, you could sing a song. And you know, where somebody came from, just because of how they sang their style of singing. Right. And

Aaron Brien: 43:28

that's interesting that you bring that up, because I've been involved in singing for a little while now. And Shawn Dean has for like, I mean, since like, I mean, you were singing like Headstart, honor songs. I mean, I mean, a while? Yeah. Um, the Cree I think Cree style of singing has affected the way other tribes composed songs now. So there used to be kind of this the way a certain group or style song composure, for sure. Right. So do you get what I'm saying though, is that I want to hear what you guys think. I think that style of singing that's popular, because I'm sure that that because when you're around like poundmaker, like a big bear, like it's real familiar to me that style of singing so it's more of a contemporary thing, but

Aaron Tootoosis: 44:26

what's your thoughts? Go Go get it. Yeah, yeah. The the styles of singing really? Kind of have been really influenced by by other tribes not today today too. Like we can't really say, you know, where, like how somebody sings now if that's like the original way there are there people have always seen and what you know your crease style is, it's it is unique. A lot of people like you know, the history Even those who as far back as you know, even the Rocky Boy writes with the rocky books and the you know, the trailer Charles A. Gopher was was one of the most influential singers down there and then that side of the America there in the north, and you know you've been influenced singers like cubberly Bill Baker, Bill baker's brother in law was Charlie gopher and spent a spell a lot of time there singing when they're younger and and then they also said that he took that style and introduced it to his people. And then you'd have you'd have other singers like come to Blackfeet in you know star school you have lily pad Kennedy that came from our area as well from little pine you know a lot of people didn't even even today don't You don't don't know that. That the Pat Kennedy is key from from little pipe. Yeah, yeah. Waste

Aaron Brien: 46:06

ample amount of time at flathead right.

Shandin Pete: 46:08

I am Paul. He's the head of this forum. He used to have this drum and it always show my mom Hey, look at this drum and it had it was like it looked like a Bongo hit it had a big a big drum head on one side and another one's a little bit smaller and had these strings going between it this size for power singing when I flip it over that's for round that singing is really proud of it

Unknown: 46:45

did scare Miko heat in Wi Fi? I know Margaery Quagga guy on coma Amy on K mama. Calm I

Aaron Brien: 47:04

have a Pat Kennedy story. What? So do you remember homesteader days? Yeah. So they used to have this power this little. It's bad. It was called homesteader days. Yeah. And in one year, some some young guys got inspired and put on a hand drum contest. So I was feeling kind of my oats, you know? Yeah. And I went out there and killed it, man. Like I kid, you know, when you're young. And you're like, Yeah, I mean, I'm crispy. Knowing You don't got me. I mean, I'll just stand by the announcers then because they're gonna call me, you know. And then Pat Kennedy goes up there. Who? I didn't know at the time. Yeah. And smoked me, man. Like, let me

Shandin Pete: 47:56

I mean, jail. Calm.

Aaron Brien: 47:58

Yeah, no calm. And then I was like, Who the hell's this old old guy? Like, slap me? Dude. That's Pat Kennedy. And I'm like, I've heard his name before. So a homesteader days. Contest? Well, that's one $40. That'll be good. Yeah, I got smoked by Pat Kennedy was on the front.

Shandin Pete: 48:26

Let's walk this back. Just just for a second. This is the deal. No, I think so when I hear whenever I hear in these, that drum beat in that round dance style, I automatically think that belongs to the crease. And if they want and they're not CRE, I think they ought to pay a percentage back to the nearest Cree person they see. Like 10% 10% Creepy 10% Cree fee. And I think I think that I think they own a style you know, and and I think and we are we're we're paid for that.

Aaron Brien: 49:05

Unless Unless you just would if you find a loophole and then you just purchase the right to use that style from a local cre there you go

Aaron Tootoosis: 49:16

that's one of the things though right when I when I'm coming going back to like ownership, right? Yeah, like our people because we were three nations up here we became inter we intermarried with each other. Yes, our bloodlines are all mixed traits like Cree Nakota Soto you know, big bear was was really Soto by blood. My, my my ancestor Chief poundmaker. Was Was Nakota by blood. Yeah, and you know, plains Cree is is what the width we all spoke though. And that's what our people identified as right because of course you you see the world like that through the lens. We speak greatly and and that's that's how they identified themselves even though she's palmater to is was what they call like his mother was Matey into the Oh, it's a half mix of Cree and and French Yeah. And but but again still you know he was known respected looked at as being you know now he'll name a name a what is how he speak up there and I see my big bear right you know I was about the you know he actually came he was born and on the Soto side they have you know around so what's the Soto First Nation I reserve and mucem and First Nation, most most of those those people there are Soto by blood. They call themselves Natalie, but in the states say they'd say Chippewa. Oh, okay. So you go to Rocky Boy Chippewa Cree. Right. Yeah. Where we acknowledge that we're, you know, we have that mixed ancestry. Yeah. So when it comes to ownership, like you know, as you know, plains Cree people can start taxing everybody. Greek. For the record, I didn't. Kota counterparts like we're mostly came from right like mosquito. Yeah. Nakota really originally and Dakota Reserve and the Kota people's

Aaron Brien: 51:35

see, did you see that Aaron, immediately was like, Wait a second, I can't be a part of anything where you have to tax crease. Sean Bean just suggested that all round that singers pay a fee to the crease. I just see all those Nakota guys said Logan, Alexis and all them guys. You know,

Shandin Pete: 51:56

we were owed money. Since when

Aaron Brien: 52:05

you bought you bought started a controversy?

Shandin Pete: 52:08

I don't think we pull that much weight. You know, I don't know what that that kind of listenership that we could make that happen. But no, honestly, honestly, this, that's what I think not not in those terms. But I think you know, and until this happens, this happens on our race right now. You get a group of young folks. And they say, well, we want to do around dance. And they just do it. Because I mean, there's nothing that essentially stopping them in a cultural sense. But now, the older people are putting their foot down and saying no, no, no, you can't do that. Because and that's the common phrase, it's not really our way. You should practice our own way. Before you go out and do these other things. Yeah. And I don't know, I mean, in, but the way you describe it, the way that you you kind of frame the history of it, that it was the intent was social, you know, and, and then further to say, you know, it was this thing that was, you know, it was made cool, because of the the style. I don't know if it was necessarily the English words in it. I don't know what if that's necessarily part of it. But that's what's really attractive, I think, to young people today, because you can compose these songs of love, and go ahead, what is up?

Aaron Brien: 53:22

I'm curious, Shawn Dean, what would your singing life would have been like, without

Shandin Pete: 53:28

that round den? Singing? Well, you know, I think it's, it's, it's very much like you said previously, you know, it was a, it was a step to getting more into what was more, I guess, would be deemed, like, the traditional singing is a platform to say, okay, I get this, and I know, probably has a history to it. But what's more, where I come from, that's, that could be cool that I could hopefully bring it back into the community. So it is really an important part, I think,

Aaron Brien: 54:00

because I look at some of the people your age over there that are culturally involved. Now, every one of them at some point. us saying round down songs, you know, yeah, yes. Hang with them. So, I mean, yeah, it's weird, like what you're saying, I get what you're saying about, but at the same time, we got to use everything we can to get people involved in culture, because man, we're at an unprecedented point in culture loss, too. So yeah, I don't know. What do you think about that? Go?

Shandin Pete: 54:34

No, I I'm into it. I'm not saying that. I'm not in the in the camp of the folks that say no, don't do that. Because it's not our way. I mean, I think that but I think in terms of if you're going to if you're doing anything cultural, anything that would be in the in this sphere of being Native, especially singing man, we're at least on our reservoirs, we're show so shortly have people that are into even just singing Indian things in any, in any genre? I think if we can get folks excited and learn to sing and that's, I think that's the, that's the next step into into learning more about your own traditional songs, I guess you could say. That's it, I

Aaron Tootoosis: 55:19

think. So I'm not against it. And what the the one thing about it though, too, right? It's just like how, you know, universities and colleges around the world, like where indigenous peoples are present, right? They have this concept called indigenisation, right? They want to indigenize the spaces, they're at these petitions. Right. But the thing is, is we always had that as peoples where, you know, we look at our ceremony study, or can we actually say these are, these are our ceremonies or our ways when we have a history of, you know, trading, purchasing, yeah. At least ceremonies, great to all it's all together. I'll give you an example of myself. I never grew up increase ceremony. But it was it was, I guess, what we'd call cremated. We, my family grew up, you know, in the, the sweat ways of the Arapaho people from down and when we when River. Oh, really. And that's, that's the way we sweat. And I grew up playing, you know, as long as I remember, like, even just as a small little, maybe two year old that was it was in the sweat there. And that's where I learned how to sing. Because, you know, my Of course my uncles, you know, the ball my uncles that that cut the the drums upon maker albums there. Yeah. What toussis family? Yeah, that those are my original singing mentors that where I learned how to sing in sweater. And it wasn't, they weren't singing Arapaho style, they're singing the songs but accrete style, right? Yeah. And then, you know, you look at round and stuff, you can do that still. Right? And you can you can put the words of your own people into those songs, and, you know, Sing Sing your own style, and introduce that and an influence it do your own feast. You know, prior to that. You do it, or your own way of giveaway. Even Ainsley. Yeah, all of these things are, or if you want to adopt it all together, just, you know, ask somebody to come and show people how to do it and, you know, develop that mentorship for for younger people, or, you know, other other ceremony, runners that, that do things like that, you know, the real indirect pose and all that it's a similar thing of stickman, right, that they're never used to be stickman long ago, there was hardly any singers. And it was the singers that that, that had some dance song rights that really were recognized as the singers that would, they'd asked them to go and sing some random songs. So they just sing, and maybe they'd sing, not even just for the praise, sing about 10 of them. And, you know, or maybe just sing a few and sing as many starts as they want, because there's hardly any singers right. But as time grew on there, you know, more and more singers started becoming ground dance singers and leading songs. And eventually, there had to be a, you know, inter mediate person that that would have to select singers as they came in. Because the emcee would would lose track, right, the other things that he stopped talking right and can keep track of the singers as they came in. So that's how they were selected, eventually, that they be picked as as to how they came in. And that would be the most respectful approach, right? That rather than, you know, somebody getting skipped, like, Hey, I came before him, like, you know that. They're disrespecting me. You know, no, nobody thinks like that. But you know, like, but also you have to mind there might be mindful of people's spirit as well. Or, you know,

Aaron Brien: 59:22

are you suggesting Aaron that Indian men pout? Are you suggesting that such a false claim?

Aaron Tootoosis: 59:31

Oh, we have this thing up there. You know, you have to be mindful of what you say to a person because you're not just saying something to them. But he might have protectors with him that will that will take care of you for him. Right. So you have to really watch how you how you act around people because you don't know what they're carrying.

Shandin Pete: 59:56

Yeah, oh, yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. I'm wondering Aaron is that um, In your country, what is that? Do you feel you have that same, you get that same pushback from the, from the older folks or the generation above about bringing in things that are maybe not quite don't belong,

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:00:18

or nurture? Well, one of the one of the things is competition. In the circle, like, I know, a lot of romance is mostly in and the state side are introducing and using competition as the drying point for Yeah, for the ground and see, and it's kind of almost destroying the purpose, though, in a way. And because, you know, we tried to maintain that it's a dance that we're calling upon our ancestors to dance with, they're great. And they're strict rules there that you kind of walk in between the rows of dancers, little kids, at one time, were allowed to even come here on dances, out of their own protection, because of what's been called there that, you know, that they don't want children to be harmed, if they, you know, are running around all of a sudden, and, you know, offend these, these ancestors that are ceremonial, you know, they're very strict about it. And, you know, my dad, himself wasn't even able to get around that. And until he was 18, por la, let's see how they kept a lot of those things. And, you know, we see a lot of romances, you know, blowing up big, you know, and, and this is the thing that, you know, a lot of people were warned about long ago, and, you know, young dancers never really were threatened by, by this by the prohibition period. Right. So, you know, what I was mentioning earlier, they were put away even before that, and the story was this, that round dances became such a big thing, a big deal. And, you know, a lot of people were so focused on that. And we're only wanting to do that. And eventually, they became so big, you know, that eventually, the elders and ceremonial people got afraid. And they believed that, you know, because people weren't listening to the rules, or weren't doing the rule, how things are paying attention to the protocols, and, you know, the cultural values and stuff like that, while they're doing this. They felt that they were asking for, for harm to come. Whichever way, you know, maybe weather maybe flooding, maybe segments, maybe you never know, where I tried to how our people thought or even what they were told, or shown. So they, they went around, and they, they ended up telling people to, they have to put this away, not for a while. They'll come back again, but you know, out of the safety and protection of all our people, you need to put it away. So it was put away. And there was a few years ago where this history was was shared with a lot of people that they see it

Unknown: 1:03:28

happening again.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:03:30

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they were, they were saying this, you know, let's say 10 years ago. And there they were opening miking it up and these stories like that right over the mic. Telling people that you know, this was put away because we were, we were afraid that you know, something was gonna come sickness was gonna come. But, you know, now now we're in a pandemic, and we can, you know, COVID-19 pandemic and can even have round dances right and even scared to have them now, they did have some recently when just just over the winter here, and a lot of people got sick from their Oh. So now, but again, not saying that's why but it's one of the things that that we don't really we don't value as much today, right that so you know, these old warnings are these old ways and, you know, of proceeding cautiously, you know, not to offend, you know, all of these things people just laugh at even today. Yeah, make fun of Yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:04:49

That's pretty interesting. Yeah, I can, I suppose it'd be it pretty. It'd be more difficult today to to actually put something away like that now because it's so wide spread, you know, I mean, I couldn't imagine why I guess I don't know, I guess other tribes might respect that. And other people would respect that and not put it away or would put it away this same I don't know, I just don't know where people's heads are sometime. Competition, you know, a lot of money involved in those kind of things. I wonder I'm in crow country, Aaron is Do you see that same thing where there's like, something comes in and it gets pushed out, or it gets gets get criticized? Because it's not from the crow culture? Because it seemed like to me, I mean, they've been round dances in CRO country, though, right? Somebody? Yeah. I mean, rownum.

Aaron Brien: 1:05:43

Kind of. So here's, here's kind of, they've piggyback things we've already done, though. So like, like a push dance, then they'll say we'll sing we'll have these young guys sing a couple Cree round dance songs. But so they were already like the our dances that people do used to do. We don't do those things anymore. Push dances, and my grandma talks about, like our stances, they used to just someone would have a big house and they cleared invite people to bring food over. Yeah, feed and but um, the closest thing I can think of is maybe about 20 years ago, 25 years ago, Southern singing kind of

Shandin Pete: 1:06:26

became popular. Yeah. Yeah. And

Aaron Brien: 1:06:30

I know, it wasn't just here. There was like, Yeah, Cheyenne groups and Rocky Boy groups, and probably over there, too. It kind of was popular to like, sing that style. But it didn't last long. It seemed like it just never caught on. And yeah, or like my, you know? Yeah. But I mean, I personally like Southern singing. I really like it actually. I would say that the most recent thing to kind of come into crow culture that is overwhelmingly recognized as something foreign. Yeah. But it's, it's there and good or bad. Is is not Indian at all. It's just Pentecostalism. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is a whole nother podcast, man.

Shandin Pete: 1:07:19

That is that is

Aaron Brien: 1:07:22

what I was trying to think really hard to see. See how hard I was thinking? I know,

Shandin Pete: 1:07:26

I don't I don't think I don't. I don't see a whole lot. And it seemed like crows are pretty isolated in that way. Not isolated geographically, but culturally isolated,

Aaron Brien: 1:07:38

in a lot of ways. I think what we have now is things we've had for a while. There are foreign things like the grass dance ceremony, but yeah, like that in the 1800s, you know? Yeah. And the push dance actually is from the two step. Yeah. But the singing style is very crow. Yeah, I would say a lot of things we do are Crow, but

Shandin Pete: 1:08:07

a lot of it's borrowed in a way.

Aaron Brien: 1:08:09

It's borrowed. Yeah. But we're probably about 20 years behind a lot of tribes. So we still have a lot of our culture, but I can see it just from my time living at flathead, being around my wife's Blackfeet. So being around them, seeing what they're going through culturally, or what their elders talk about in the 70s and 80s. Or going through that now.

Shandin Pete: 1:08:31

You can see that wave coming through.

Aaron Brien: 1:08:33

Yeah, and I try to tell people and I'm like, Hey, and like people aren't buying it. He prophesizing I'm prophesizing I predicted

Shandin Pete: 1:08:45

so this is another thing like like Aaron not the crow errand Koreans talking about about you know, something, something was happening almost said the cool air and the cool why. So something happened, something happened to some sort of excess and then then people got worried that seems, I don't know if it happened in Crow, but it happened in flathead two is with the giveaways. And this was long ago, there were there was like people started competing to see who could give away more. This was way before before the modern times. And the Chiefs at that time just they they outlawed and they said okay, no more of these giveaways like this. We just got to stop because people kept trying to give more and more like competing who can give away more. So then that kind of way kind of stopped.

Aaron Brien: 1:09:33

You're okay. I get what you're saying now. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:09:36

Well, no, I'm wondering if anything like that. That phenomenon happened to among the crows because Aaron talked about it. That reminded me of that instance of the giveaway. I'm wonder if that also happened. I

Aaron Brien: 1:09:48

guess I heard your country too. I get what you're saying now. And yes, different.

Shandin Pete: 1:09:51

That's a different question. Oh, different question. This is a different question altogether. That's sort of paying attention. Aaron

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:10:00

We're here to bring

Aaron Brien: 1:10:04

Shawn Dean has no respect for what I do for my, my job. I wrote a budget today. And man, that's like the worst thing ever. But yes, in fact, I've been involved because of my current position. Aaron I'm my job is I'm the Tribal Historic Preservation Officer for the Crow tribe. So I deal a lot with cultural people, but also kind of in the world of like regulatory. So enforcing cultural resource law. So it's kind of a weird place to be but so I get it, I'm provably privy to certain talks among like, the really like cultural leaders, right? Among CRO, and that this talk is like people are talking about this. And it actually does have to do with two things. The involvement of white people and, and I said it, I said it, say it again. Also why white folk? And giveaways and giveaways really, yeah, okay, giveaways is like, CRO anyone who's ever been to CRO fair knows that.

Shandin Pete: 1:11:09

Oh, God, Monday, Monday night.

Aaron Brien: 1:11:12

And here's what I'll say. As a as a CRO believer of culture. giveaways are required. So I don't encourage that they go away. Yeah, but it's turned it's it's I do agree that it's losing purpose because it's becoming the competition for the next person. giveaway you know,

Shandin Pete: 1:11:34

a giveaway. 20 blankets. We're gonna get

Aaron Brien: 1:11:37

one small. That's 20 is a small giveaway in Chrome man. Yeah, like we're talking 40 Pendleton blankets and horses and people given land. Oh, yeah, man. No one ever gave me land.

Unknown: 1:11:59

Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 1:12:00

Well, there's so I actually had to sing. And I'm curious. Now we're getting into something else. Because giveaway is such a big part of being a tribal person, not just a CRO but a lot of people. I have actually run into people. And I'm curious what Aaron thinks that there are people who don't get involved in cultural things in fear of giveaways. So I've called it giveaway anxiety. So that we like, we want to get involved, but maybe you come from a family that doesn't have the means to have giveaways and feeds. Or they feel a lot of pressure to like, ask people to be involved or things like that. So I'm curious, do you think that that exists among your people?

Shandin Pete: 1:12:42

Go for you.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:12:45

I really believe so. And you know, it is it is a hard thing to do. Especially, you know, and in the times we're in where people are, you know, living from Bill to Bill great and put up a giveaway really mean, you know, following through on the commitment ceremony or not hate and yeah, I believe that that's, that's a large component of why people only choose other, you know, follow certain other ceremonies, because they can do that without having to make that commitment I would giveaway today. Yeah, I believe it's a thing. And I think that's something that oh, by the way, speaking of, you know, I mentioned sweetgrass, right? Yeah, we're we're part of a, like poundmaker little plane. sweetgrass used to be thunder child until they moved on the other side of the river, and also with partly with the red pheasant people, but we're also historically known as the as the battle river crees. People like because the one of the main rivers in their area is the battle river. And we have always kind of lived along that river. And we have a lot of respect. There. You don't want to piss off the battle river crease, but get this though. We have a crow. We have a crow connection hit the grass connections, sweet grass reserve. The old man sweet grass. The first chief there was actually crew. Really? Yeah,

Aaron Brien: 1:14:25

you know, it's crazy as I knew that. And the only reason I knew is as part of that big bear settlement that happened that was kind of big in the 80s and 90s. There was CRO involvement in some of that research and my grandmother was hired by some I can't remember a Canadian law firm to do genealogy to find the descendants of sweet grass. Yeah. And I remember briefly hearing about it but the only reason I was kind of familiar with what you're saying is, after she had passed away, I got copies of some For like genealogy stuff family history stuff in in there was a whole file dedicated to Big Bear. And then as by default it was like some of the sweet grass stuff and and then there was like who are who were his kids and and then because I think his daughter or something had moved back with the crows or something I can't remember exactly but yeah, that's pretty wild. You're the first person I ever heard say it though other than my grandma.

Shandin Pete: 1:15:28

How did he end up there?

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:15:31

I don't know that the story though, like it's always been in the talk though for you know that you know since we're kids that you know cheap cheap sweetgrass shoes or Crow Indian

Shandin Pete: 1:15:44

what year what year was around

Aaron Brien: 1:15:47

1987

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:15:53

Was that their reserve system didn't happen until after 1867 So are 1876 I mean, yeah, it was it was those years that he would he was the chief but he was already he was already known as Old Man sweetgrass by then put it that way. Oh, yeah. And then his the the other chief of their people his his name was straight come on the back that the that was the always the thing that like how in the heck

Shandin Pete: 1:16:27

yeah.

Aaron Brien: 1:16:29

That's wild. Man, you blew my mind just now. Because that folder, my grandma in the 80s research on him and who his family was in it from what I gathered. At that time, she's still people still remembered like, who he was. Stuff like that. So I'm gonna I'm gonna look back and see because it'd be kind of cool to see now.

Shandin Pete: 1:16:54

Yeah. Ended up there. 1876 prior to 1876

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:17:00

Yeah. So I've been a lot of people even even from there. You probably don't even know the history even today, especially in terms of genealogy. So it would be pretty interesting to see

Aaron Brien: 1:17:14

Yeah, right. And like I said my grandmother was the only person who ever said it to me my dad's mom that I ever even heard say it so the fact that you're saying it is pretty crazy because I never heard one other chrome

Shandin Pete: 1:17:29

say it doesn't matter connection friends

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:17:39

you got that connection to the Blackstone centers? I should be a call up for host Jerome there and Crow yeah

Shandin Pete: 1:17:48

i think i permission to say any of their old double leads you can sing Oh yeah.

Unknown: 1:17:58

Right now. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 1:18:01

Pass Cummins double leads

Shandin Pete: 1:18:03

with a solo solo

Aaron Brien: 1:18:08

that was a killer speaking around dense tapes. That first Blackstone round dense tape was pretty killer back in the day.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:18:15

That was a September AMA. Oh yeah. I think it was called.

Aaron Brien: 1:18:20

I think it was a power as a power tip. Yeah, I think it was called like long ride home or something like that.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:18:28

Oh yeah. I was supposed to be on that around and so and we were actually practicing like Terry to come pick me up in Paulie here. And we know we all be practicing for that album like Terry and Randy would always pick me up we'd all go around answers to and but the day the album came I was just sick. I said no, I just can't even we were first president say me Terry is late Cookham. His grandmother was was my Muslim sister. So that's how we were related like that. So

Shandin Pete: 1:19:13

but actually Blackstone that was the that was the group man when I was younger.

Aaron Brien: 1:19:17

Most power tape I ever bought on my own when I was a little kid was a Blackstone tape what Blackstone for duchaine So

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:19:25

that's it. We all don't know. Yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:19:29

Yeah, that's the one that's the one cool man man there's a lot I think there's a lot more that we could chat about you know, especially now we're going into the power singing what can I

Aaron Brien: 1:19:40

can I can we do a quick thing which was there and before he goes, I want to hear his his top three round dense recordings. I want to know what your top three run recordings are

Shandin Pete: 1:19:52

now. Okay, wait. My note was like

Aaron Brien: 1:19:55

your go twos. Yeah, like the ones like hey, if you had the somebody's like, man, you want to hear real round and singing like just this? Is it? What? I want to hear it? Yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete: 1:20:08

Plain list.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:20:08

Oh, the first one would be the of course the Red Bull. The first Red Bull album ever. Right? That would be the one. Yeah. Without the bullock one.

Shandin Pete: 1:20:19

Yeah, that's classic.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:20:22

And then the next one would be would be the, what the heck was it called? It was art mucem in one. It had a fleeting cowboy on it too. And it had that the scabby lips song.

Shandin Pete: 1:20:35

Oh, yeah, scabby lips. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. Isn't there one on there where he talks about the skinny legs to or bird legs set on that same album.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:20:49

That's the same song like,

Shandin Pete: 1:20:51

Oh, is it the same one? He talks about?

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:20:54

Holding arms. Yeah, yeah. That's the one. Okay,

Aaron Brien: 1:20:57

so do you have an honorable mention since that was your your top Oh, that's Oh, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:21:05

The other one would be that I think it's it's it was the one of the latest Red Bull ones with it was just late Arnold, Pete Edmond and Troy and Chopper there's four of them on now and I think I might been around Dance Fever

Aaron Brien: 1:21:28

Oh, round Dance Fever. Oh, don't think you know you've heard

Shandin Pete: 1:21:34

I don't I don't I don't you had to avert it. Probably

Aaron Brien: 1:21:38

you probably had owned it when your treatment

Shandin Pete: 1:21:46

got treatment I gotta get my you got those. Do you have those? You have those on tape? Still?

Aaron Brien: 1:21:56

I have the first red bull on tape.

Shandin Pete: 1:21:59

No other Aaron. I don't care. Guys.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:22:03

I got a bunch of tapes and I have that heart loose when I went on tape I'm talking about that's just Yeah, anyone think of it but I got that on paper. I have the cover and everything. And the other that route that Redbull that I don't have on the old one. But you can you can find it on on SoundCloud. This one Indian indigenous cultural center has sound files on on SoundCloud. There they have all the older sicc albums from Red Bull. ARB, you know all Oh, there. They were

Aaron Brien: 1:22:39

nice. That sounds like a goldmine.

Shandin Pete: 1:22:42

You know what I'm gonna. I'm gonna put that link in the show notes. For those straggler listeners who are still hanging in with us. That's Doggin hour and 30 minutes. Oh,

Aaron Brien: 1:22:54

well, before we go, what's your top three then Sean deem

Shandin Pete: 1:22:57

me there was this one though. Everyone's dying to know. Okay, this there's this one and I can't remember the name the full name. It was their group was called Nakota something? Yeah, code or something? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Hey Nakota it was one of the first ones I heard a code or something. ACOTA travelers know just I don't I can hear it in my quota Creek. Because because it was the first it was around the first ones that I ever heard and it was just it was enchanting. It enchanted me.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:23:38

I think the biggest album that nobody has today is the songs of Barry Hill's.

Aaron Brien: 1:23:44

I was just gonna say a song.

Shandin Pete: 1:23:46

That's, that's one of them, too. That's one of them. And then the next one, which I am quite fond of, but I can never get a copy of it is the old McGillvary and green. Just those two those two old timers. I don't know how old they were at that time, but I really like that one just because there's just two of them, you know, really good tunes.

Aaron Brien: 1:24:07

Are they blended real well together too. Yeah, the singing the singing was nice.

Shandin Pete: 1:24:12

Song bear hills. I wish I can run the quarter a quarter something. It's really old. Well for me, I guess. And then yeah. McGilvery green. Those are those probably my top three. What about you? Because I know you want it. You're just you're just leading.

Aaron Brien: 1:24:30

I don't I don't I think there's a lot of pressure on singers to always say was the oldest? Yeah, so for me like

Shandin Pete: 1:24:38

we're on old

Aaron Brien: 1:24:39

art. Most men aren't Muslim and straight from the heart. That recording is bad ass man. Yeah. Then of course I gotta go a little island cream in that first one. What was it like World Champion singers or whatever that first one was? Yeah. And if I didn't put on a song man if she has a little island Cree like free I want to into it. And then I'll probably say the first Red Bull. Yeah, or no dance to Red Bull. Dance to red. No.

Shandin Pete: 1:25:09

You didn't. Okay, that's cool, man.

Aaron Brien: 1:25:15

You almost said some events.

Shandin Pete: 1:25:17

The idea. Yeah, almost like slay it now. I don't wanna I don't want it. What I'm thinking, you know, you're gonna talk about bigger. Oh, I wasn't gonna like some Randy, would you? No,

Aaron Brien: 1:25:30

no, I don't like I'm gonna say right now. I don't like solo rounds.

Shandin Pete: 1:25:37

Yeah, I used to be into it just for a little bit, but you had faded pretty quick.

Aaron Brien: 1:25:41

Yeah,

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:25:42

yeah, you gotta be on it. You probably like that harmonized stuff.

Shandin Pete: 1:25:46

Yeah. It sounded cool. First time I heard it but then.

Aaron Brien: 1:25:52

Well, yeah, like anything's cool for a little while, but like, what I might go to just like in Powell singing It's. I like I've always I go through stages, but I still think Big Bear was is like the biggest reason like, Man, when I first heard live at for heart, like blew my mind. Yeah, that was, that was a good one. And I've said that on this podcast, like 80 times. So yeah. Anyway, we can have Aaron toussis a long time now. Bo, go ahead, finish. Yeah,

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:26:23

go ahead, man. Like that was a good talk, man. That was awesome. I seem to be asked to share that. You know what a lot of people don't have the opportunity to hear ah, and yeah, yeah. I was good. Really good. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 1:26:39

I think I pride ourselves Yeah, we pride ourselves in asking questions that normally people don't talk about on podcast

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:26:47

you know? Yeah, I even though you know, it sounded pretty heavy. There's there's a lot of stuff that I left out. Yeah, I'm just kidding.

Shandin Pete: 1:27:00

So look for part two and three and part two hello

Aaron Brien: 1:27:03

or buy it from me

Shandin Pete: 1:27:07

this is just introductory like the free 30 minute trial. Yeah, this is the 30 day you're gonna get three

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:27:14

payments of 4999

Shandin Pete: 1:27:18

to hear the rest it's a small subscription 149 American two more episodes reveal the secrets of

Aaron Brien: 1:27:29

the Patreon the Patreon more here the fool

Shandin Pete: 1:27:33

yeah Patreon subscribers will get will get access to all three. Oh by the way, yeah, we got to recognize our sponsors, man. I'm not gonna do it now sponsors when we do Yeah, we we have a few sponsors few bucks.

Aaron Brien: 1:27:51

Hey, before we end with is there anything like do you want people to follow you like on pod guard? Like you have a podcast you have

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:28:00

a I got Facebook and that's it man. Facebook

Shandin Pete: 1:28:07

you know what, what is your um

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:28:10

music wise I do have the the guns of Hamaker on on what it was called SoundCloud. Yeah, and I do have big bear files. And they when we when we sing with big bear. Yeah. And they're, you know, they're unreleased album that that's how was done that

Aaron Brien: 1:28:28

as well. The red bottom one? No, no, no.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:28:31

This one though. We recorded it up here and up here in Canada. But it we never gone to the doctor lease to sell CD to that point. But you know, a studio quality recording live. And that's that's on my soundcloud as well for free access. So

Shandin Pete: 1:28:51

we'll put that link down in the show notes. People can access that. And then you work at um, what institution you work at there.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:28:59

I work at the Saskatchewan Polytechnic. Okay, it's that SAS Polytech. Sir, one of the colleges we have here. It's not really just a trade school. It's, you know, full on college and yeah, I'm the indigenous student advisor there. Mariela Castro or indigenous students say, Kuhlman.

Shandin Pete: 1:29:18

Well, that's good manners. Good. Thanks for taking the time out and chatting with us. We could probably keep going, but I'm getting a little bit hungry man. Girl Yeah, we'll have to do a party.

Aaron Brien: 1:29:32

Because I felt like we're just getting lubed up nice. unmuted, I muted myself. I thought oh, we got to do a part just wanted to say that. Then you went on. I said,

Shandin Pete: 1:29:48

Well, this is this is what we want. This is what we want. We want to try to get more singers on here. Like you know, we had Michael from boys we had John John's deform you know dropping some knowledge bombs on us and Aaron same just educated us on on a whole history of decree round and so that's good and I think that's things people that the thing we need to share around and you know, I think it's pretty important the singers are important they know certain things and while some singers are important, not all of them

Aaron Brien: 1:30:24

you guys heard it here first

Shandin Pete: 1:30:30

I'm just kidding. And he said, you have to pay? Yeah, yes, some singers and some. Yeah 10% 10% 10% American vs. American No. And then And Aaron toussis will be responsible for distributing that amongst the Cree nations, the plains Cree Nation

Aaron Brien: 1:30:51

will be providing creasing licenses and permits. If you go to his Facebook and cash app and you can get your crease singing license from

Shandin Pete: 1:31:01

this Yeah, love your wine.

Aaron Tootoosis: 1:31:03

My answer my answer to them is I'm going to be saving for a van. Yeah.

Aaron Brien: 1:31:10

A Dodge conversion ban.

Shandin Pete: 1:31:12

Yeah, the Dodge conversion. The roofs a bit leaky. But alright, thank you for joining us on this episode. And if you want to learn more about what we're up to go ahead and search tribal research specialist in Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube and check out our other sites. And if you want to contribute to the show, go ahead and look us up on Patreon. We would appreciate your donation